The 5-MeO-DMT Mega-Thread

[Leo Gura]

@legendary Very good! The only thing is that you haven't really gone all the way yet. You got a small glimpse, but not the Full Monty.

When plugging, it's very important to make sure that your bowels are empty, otherwise the substance will not absorb fully.

Measuring 5-MeO using a micro-scoop is far superior than using a scale. Scales are just not sensitive enough. Get a micro-scoop on Amazon (like this: https://amzn.to/2oguKiE ) and use the same micro-scoop each time so your doses are consistent.

Sounds like you might need to smoke it to get the Full Monty. Or just increase your plugged dose.

Yes, at high doses, it gets freaky.

But having that Fully Monty breakthrough is paramount. Until then, you still don't understand how deep this goes.

Doing it with Octavio should definitely get you a breakthrough. Smoking is MUCH more intense than plugging. Plugging is like a walk in the park compared to smoking it. With smoking, the ego should not be able to hold on or resist in any way.

[outlandish]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Measuring 5-MeO using a micro-scoop is far superior than using a scale. Scales are just not sensitive enough. Get a micro-scoop on Amazon (like this: https://amzn.to/2oguKiE ) and use the same micro-scoop each time so your doses are consistent.

Nooooo!

I must politely disagree here Leo - a scoop will never be as accurate as a $30-50 gem scale! Please don't encourage this, it's really not a reliable method. Crystal formation is inconsistent, especially going from one batch to the next, so no two scoops will ever be exactly the same, because density varies from one scoop to the next. Plus it's hard to visually make a perfectly consistent across the top to where you're filling.

Whereas a scale will measure with 100% *consistency* which is the important thing. You can confirm this by taking a tiny piece of paper or something, and weighing it, write the measurement on it, and weigh it the next day. It will be the same, unless your scale isn't calibrated, or really sucks. You might be concerned with the +/-1mg or +/-2mg accuracy of this class of scales, but that's not such a big deal because it's the consistency that's most important, not so much hitting the absolute correct measurement, if that makes sense.

The weight is the only way to get an accurate gauge on how much of the substance you're ingesting.

If you want greater accuracy, measure out a larger weight on your scale, and then dissolve it in a solute like water or vodka. You then can use a syringe to measure dead accurate doses of your solution. Google volumetric dosing for details on how to do this properly.

[Girzo]

If you ground the powder and make sure it's fine, then scoops are more accurate.

Scale is a must-have, too. You can always double-check by putting your substance on the scale using scoops.

My Gemini-20 is not consistent enough. @outlandish What scale do you use that you get 100% consistency?

[cirkussmile]

2 hours ago, legendary said:

 

What I'm doing next:

• No more tripping for a while. I need to embody mindfulness and awareness during my daily life and advance the Yoga practice that I've been slacking off with
• More contemplation
• Get on top of my life purpose
• I'm planning on attending the retreat with Dr. Octavio Rettig in Spain in a few months, where I intend to finish what I started. This would also allow me to avoid the mistakes I made.
• Enjoy life more. I take a lot of things for granted. This experience cannot be described as an experience of Absolute Infinity, however, this was a profound near-death experience for me.

 

Questions for other Self-Actualizers:

• How were you able to let go while tripping? I remember thoughts violently swirling in my mind, as I tried to let go, but failed
• I see that not many trip reports mention the 'Bilateral Symmetry' and 'Energetic Yoga' that Martin Ball advocates. I understand that he doesn't seem to be completely liberated, but I noticed myself doing those movements involuntarily. Has anyone else noticed this on 5-MeO or any other psychedelic?
• Has anyone tried smoking the natural form of 5-MeO (toad medicine)? If so, how does it compare with the HCl version, esp. when plugged?
• If you think there is something else I did wrong, please let me know. I have been planning for these trips for a few months, and have read a few books and have read many trip reports, but one cannot be too cautious with this substance.

 

Cheers!

Letting go is a daily practice and not just when doing 5-meo. Daily meditation and maybe yoga helps with this. During the trip, try to open your heart. Open your heart with trust, love and gratitude before and during the onset. This is also a practice that one can do on a daily basis. 5-meo is nothing special, or should not be, than daily living. The secret to freedom is to arrange your life around Truth and deep values.

I agree with you that Martin doesn't seem to be completely liberated. He is definitely awake and he has definitely found a way to live according to what he likes. Those techniques comes spontaneously at some times during trips. If you are aware of your body you will let it move as it pleases. It doesn't have to be a special pattern, it's more to let energies flow.

The Bufo toad is a more a fuller experience. You feel that it's natural in a way. I can only think of the difference between LSD and mushroom. The Bufo give some fractals and more movement during the onset. The onset can be a little like to DMT with fractals but no colors. It's more movement and it feels more in the body. 5-meo feels sterilized like a hospital or a lab  The bufo is straight from nature and you feel it. And about the peak.. Depending on your base line awareness, it takes you to the same place. It bring you to you, but you were already there. From my understanding we are already living in the breakthrough.

You didn't do anything wrong. Maybe you have the wrong focus. What are you trying to find? Something other than you? 5-meo can only help you see who you are. Other than that it is of no use. If you want to explore the mind and get insights, use other psychedelics. But even them wont't help you after a while. 

We have to be clear on what we are doing. We have to be clear on what we are looking for. We want to live a happy and fulfilling life from moment to moment. Waiting for something in the future is not the way to go. 

I know there are many people here who loves psychedelics and even defend them. I say, do psychedelics but don't think it can replace daily living and daily practice. People want shortcuts. There are no shortcuts, only traps. Someone has to say it  

[outlandish]

I forget the exact model, but it's an AWS (American Weigh Scale) that cost around $50, nothing special. I keep a few different pieces of tinfoil of different sizes with their mass written on them to use to ensure the calibration is consistent, and every single time it's the exact same number, down to 1mg.

How much swing do you get with your Gemini-20? 

Using scoops is definitely not consistent. You can't guarantee a perfectly consistent grind, especially between batches. Also there is variable settling, accidental air pockets in the scoop, static charge causing the powder to clump or scatter. Even if you did want to go to all the trouble to try to make a perfect grind of your chem, it would still be easier to do liquid volumetric dosing.

If scoops were consistent they'd use them in chemistry labs, but they don't. If you've ever done a university course in chemistry you'll know that dry chemicals are measured on a scale. Even pro bakeries use scales, because flour will have different densities, and because of settling.

If you really want super accurate dosing, Liquid Volumetric Dosing is definitely the way to go. It's how ultra potent drugs like LSD are properly dosed, or laid on blotter. When you dissolve a chemical into a solution it is perfectly distributed in that solvent, so every time you measure say 1mL of the solution, you get the *exact* same dosage - you can get very tiny syringes that let you measure volumes extremely accurately.

5-MeO-DMT isn't so strong that you can't get away with using scoops, but it's not more accurate than a cheap mg scale and liquid volumetric dosing, or even a $50 mg scale straight up.

 

 

 

 

[TeamBills]

I haven't looked much into the psychedelic content but I remember Leo talking about something like "drowning in the beauty of realizing you are God." My question is, ok I'm God, so what? What makes it so beautiful? For the record I'm completely honest with myself about wanting enjoyment and peace > Truth.

 

[Leo Gura]

@outlandish Microscoops are more accurate than milligrams scales. Those milligram scales are still way too imprecise. They cannot properly measure a 10gm dose. To them, 10mg to 20mg all feels the same. I have used several different milligram scales and they are all terrible.

Consistency of powder is a non-issue if you're using the same batch. And even between batches is it not much of an issue unless you have totally difference sources.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, TeamBills said:

ok I'm God, so what?

Not so what.

More like: HOLY FUCKING FUCK!!!

But you don't get this yet because you have no idea yet what "I'm God" really means. To you it's just an idea. Which of course is "so what?"

[archi]

In 2 weeks I go for 5-MeO trip one day and ayahuasca the following one ... 

Any advice what would be the best prep for it?

Also, I've observed that people sell something like 5-MeO-pyr-T and 5-MeO-MiPT. Anybody tried? What are these substances about? 

Edited August 28, 2018 by archi

[Girzo]

Stay away from pyr-T, pure poison. Is it that hard to do some research?

It's not people who sell it, but shady chinese companies who have no idea why they sell it.

[outlandish]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@outlandish Microscoops are more accurate than milligrams scales. Those milligram scales are still way too imprecise. They cannot properly measure a 10gm dose. To them, 10mg to 20mg all feels the same. I have used several different milligram scales and they are all terrible.

Consistency of powder is a non-issue if you're using the same batch. And even between batches is it not much of an issue unless you have totally difference sources.

Holy crap @Leo Gura - I can see how if your scale reads 10mg and 20mg as the same you'd say that scoops are more precise. I wouldn't call that a milligram scale, more like a "milligram" scale.

I think you haven't tried a good scale yet, or there is some problem with your scale(s). Have you changed the battery? Mine was a bit wonky until I replaced the shit factory battery, now it measures within 1mg consistently. 

Here's the scale I'm using: AWS Gemini PRO GPR-20  https://www.amazon.com/American-GPR-20-Gemini-PRO-Digital-Milligram/dp/B00FDOL6C4 - it's a bit more expensive than I remembered, but 100% worth every penny. It's not at the bottom tier of scales, more like second-from-the-bottom.

If I put a tiny clump on, it goes up 1mg, if I take it off again it goes down 1mg. If I weigh the thing the next day it weighs the same. My bits of calibration tinfoil measure the same every single time. It's been good to me. 

 

[archi]

9 hours ago, Girzo said:

Stay away from pyr-T, pure poison. Is it that hard to do some research?

It's not people who sell it, but shady chinese companies who have no idea why they sell it.

Thanks. No, it is not, I was lazy bastard.

More info: https://erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal43.shtml

Sounds like it is for macho man :).

[Enlightenment]

@outlandish Scales also can be "fooled" by adding a small portion, below the lowest measuring threshold of the scale, slowly bit by bit like if you would've taken a 0,5mg piece weight it, wait 5 seconds, add another one. It's not really a problem if your scale is accurate to a true 0,001g, but many scales aren't.

here is an example of how accurate micro scoops can be https://www.reddit.com/r/5MeODMT/comments/6ctodn/advice_on_precise_measurements_of_5meodmt_dosages/

Edited August 28, 2018 by Enlightenment

[Vladimir]

11 hours ago, archi said:

In 2 weeks I go for 5-MeO trip one day and ayahuasca the following one ... 

Any advice what would be the best prep for it?

Also, I've observed that people sell something like 5-MeO-pyr-T and 5-MeO-MiPT. Anybody tried? What are these substances about? 

Good luck on your journey  Let us know how it goes!

[Vladimir]

This is my prayer before psychedelic trips:

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Once more into the fray, into the last good fight I’ll ever know. Live and die on this day, live and die on this day.

 

[JustinS]

14 hours ago, archi said:

In 2 weeks I go for 5-MeO trip one day and ayahuasca the following one ... 

Any advice what would be the best prep for it?

 

@archi I've tried this once and it was the gnarliest psychedelic experience I've had to date. Prepare for the possibility of an 8 hour long 5-MeO-DMT experience.

[Ar_Senses]

@legendary This is huge! You are warrior! 

I've been at the same retreat in spain, where you planning to go I guess in October. You can check out my report about it

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Letting go and accepting insanity is a radical step

It's very right. Every time when I remember my expirience it feels like my whole body can be ripped for the less than a second

Quote

 

How were you able to let go while tripping? I remember thoughts violently swirling in my mind, as I tried to let go, but failed

 

Yeah, I'm failed also!  I was screaming and rolling on the ground, but it's Okay!

The best advices which I've got from Octavio, Martin Ball and my own insights:

• The more Love you've expirienced, the easier it's going. I've saw people, who not so deep into self-actualisation, but they know what is love and their hearts are opened and they feeling themself safe in the unknown grounds. Try to fill yourself with love and especially while you'll be on retreat.
• From Octavio: Body is your Temple. If you know and feel your body, you'll find it much easier to be aware while tripping. Do push-ups, dance, yoga and everything what can make you freinds with your body.
• From Octavio: The more you'll tripping with 5, the more you'll become familiar with the experience. I've liked Octavio's metaphore: "It's like a new car. You need to get used to it and than you can drive fully.
• Experience with other different psychedelics can be benefitial. It's like going from karting to Formula 1)
• From Marting Ball: I've asked him "I want to become more aware and remember everything in next experience with 5, and also become God without fear and resistance. What should I practice more for that goal?" And here what he has answered:

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  Practice being honest - both with yourself internally, and with other versions of the self externally. Since the true energy of being is that we’re all God, the more we can be honest in our words, actions, and thoughts, the more in alignment we become with true reality. Much of the ego is based on lies, wishes, illusions, etc., that much of our egoic operating is to maintain these illusions and lies. By being honest, you can feel the difference in yourself, and then when the full truth of being opens up with the medicine, you’re more accustomed to it and can ride through it more clearly and with greater presence.

  Another area for self-observation and monitoring is by observing your body language and becoming conscious of unconscious habits. For example, when you tell a lie, you will exhibit certain body movements and postures, or make certain sounds, for example. The patterns of the ego tend to function asymmetrically in the body - more to the left or right side. When in fully absorptive nondual states, bodies tend to exhibit bilateral symmetry. So, as you go about your day and encounter different experiences and have various thoughts and reactions, pay attention to what’s going on in your body - your posture, movements, breath, facial expressions, what you do with your hands, etc., and then you can start to see how asymmetrical patterns are embodied via your ego. When confronted by something challenging or difficult, maintain a symmetrical posture, and observe how your ego will try and pull you out of it. By this method of self-observation, you’ll start to see all the ways your pushing and pulling at yourself via your illusions of who it is you think you are, or should be.

   

 

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I see that not many trip reports mention the 'Bilateral Symmetry' and 'Energetic Yoga' that Martin Ball advocates. I understand that he doesn't seem to be completely liberated, but I noticed myself doing those movements involuntarily. Has anyone else noticed this on 5-MeO or any other psychedelic?

I've saw couple people on the retreat who were doing somethnig like that. But Octavio Rettig and also Leo, as I get their words, has an different opinion to that effect and do not care about it too much. Just side effect. But it seems, that those who were doing those movments was experiencing more profound, pleasunt states than those who were screaming or vomiting 

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Has anyone tried smoking the natural form of 5-MeO (toad medicine)? If so, how does it compare with the HCl version, esp. when plugged?

I've smoked it, but has no experience with HCI. It's okay, you'll figure it out fast. But I'll recomend you to read "Entheogenic Liberation" and "The Toad of Dawn". They both describes procces of using 5

Feel free to text me personal!)

Good Luck

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Ar_Senses

[SoonHei]

why is it often said that seeing God is terrifying? until it isn't anymore... (upon surrender?)

but yeah, what sort of terror is it? like afraid of the dark/demon/ghost terror or just a whole different plane of terror which is ineffable... but still, what is the terror component to it? 

i guess terror = fear = resistance? is it just a very high degree of resistance previously unfaced. a massive huge almost infinite level of resistance that comes about?

[Greatnestwithin]

1 hour ago, SoonHei said:

why is it often said that seeing God is terrifying? until it isn't anymore... (upon surrender?)

but yeah, what sort of terror is it? like afraid of the dark/demon/ghost terror or just a whole different plane of terror which is ineffable... but still, what is the terror component to it? 

i guess terror = fear = resistance? is it just a very high degree of resistance previously unfaced. a massive huge almost infinite level of resistance that comes about?

@SoonHei Existential terror, atleast in my experience

Edited August 29, 2018 by Greatnestwithin

[SoonHei]

6 minutes ago, Greatnestwithin said:

Existential terror

@Greatnestwithin what exactly does that mean? just being terrified of that current state in which you are in. just being terrified to exist or be experiencing whatever is the content of the experiencing in that moment? a terror that just IS ?