The 5-MeO-DMT Mega-Thread

[JustinS]

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/entheogenic/episodes/2018-04-09T11_17_10-07_00

New interview with Martin Ball and James Oroc on Oroc’s new book The New Psychedelic Revolution 

[JustinS]

https://www.wbac.info

 

[cirkussmile]

2 hours ago, JustinS said:

https://www.wbac.info

 

Who's going?

[JustinS]

@cirkussmile All the cool kids. And the guy who supposedly was the first one to smoke bufo, Albert Most.

@11:30

There will also be sessions taking place near the temple Teotihuacan.

See you there! ??

[cirkussmile]

2 hours ago, JustinS said:

@cirkussmile All the cool kids. And the guy who supposedly was the first one to smoke bufo, Albert Most.

@11:30

There will also be sessions taking place near the temple Teotihuacan.

See you there! ??

17 hours ago, JustinS said:

https://www.wbac.info

 

See you there, I guess ?

[okulele]

I am going to attend a Bufo Alvarius ceremony in about 2 weeks. I also wanted to do shrooms this weekend. Do you think it would lessen the bufo experience? (is there cross tolerance?) The bufo facilitator didn't recommend it.

Also there is a possibility to combine the bufo with kambo and some body-work. Do you have any experience with that?

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, DrMobius said:

It's good to have you back, Leo!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but among all the different ways to reach Enlightenment, it appears to me that your favorite one is psychedelics. I know that you advocate for a multi-approach path with meditation, yoga, etc., but do you think that psychedelics alone could, eventually, do the trick?

It will be very difficult to use psychedelics alone to produce enlightenment. It just won't work for most people I think because the effects tend to be temporary.

Yoga is the more reliable method. With psychedelics as booster shots along the way.

The issue is that the brain needs to be permanently rewired, and psychedelics will generally not do that. Yoga produces permanent rewiring.

I've had amazing insights on 5-MeO-DMT. But a permanent enlightenment has proven elusive. The ego-mind returns.

[blazed]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It will be very difficult to use psychedelics alone to produce enlightenment. It just won't work for most people I think because the effects tend to be temporary.

Yoga is the more reliable method. With psychedelics as booster shots along the way.

The issue is that the brain needs to be permanently rewired, and psychedelics will generally not do that. Yoga produces permanent rewiring.

I've had amazing insights on 5-MeO-DMT. But a permanent enlightenment has proven elusive. The ego-mind returns.

I really thought that might be the case, just judging by what the best mystics and gurus have been saying about it pretty much exactly what you said "temporary" and the it could lead to desiring mystical experiences which is more movement. Sadhguru calls it "chemical chaos in the body and mind" if I remember correctly.

Will you be using that stuff forever even if you conclude it won't help attain enlightenment?

[Leo Gura]

Quote

Sadhguru calls it "chemical chaos in the body and mind" if I remember correctly.

This is far too flippant and dismissive.

It's easy for Sadhguru to be dismissive because he's already massively enlightened. But normal folk aren't even close. So for them, psychedelics can be life-changing.

It's easy for Arnold Schwarzenegger to say that benching 50 lbs is a waste of time. Because he can bench 700 lbs. But are you anywhere near his level?

95% of Sadhguru's students have no idea what enlightenment is, and will never even come close to tasting it in their lifetime, I would bet.

How many and what kinds of psychedelics has Sadhguru done?

Quote

Will you be using that stuff forever even if you conclude it won't help attain enlightenment?

It is helpful. I just said it isn't a reliable way to rewire the brain.

I have no idea what the future holds. But I see no reason to quit psychedelics on principle. Even if they don't produce a permanent enlightenment, they are still highly worthwhile and fascinating to explore. Not everything has to be purely utilitarian. You can do psychedelics just because you enjoy exploring different dimensions of consciousness, in the same way that people like to go hiking or traveling to other countries.

It's better to spend 8 hours on LSD than 8 hours watching TV or 8 hours working in a cubicle.

[blazed]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is far too flippant and dismissive.

It's easy for Sadhguru to be dismissive because he's already massively enlightened. But normal folk aren't even close. So for them, psychedelics can be life-changing.

It's easy for Arnold Schwarzenegger to say that benching 50 lbs is a waste of time. Because he can bench 700 lbs. But are you anywhere near his level?

95% of Sadhguru's students have no idea what enlightenment is, and will never even come close to tasting it in their lifetime, I would bet.

How many and what kinds of psychedelics has Sadhguru done?

It is helpful. I just said it isn't a reliable way to rewire the brain.

I have no idea what the future holds. But I see no reason to quit psychedelics on principle. Even if they don't produce a permanent enlightenment, they are still highly worthwhile and fascinating to explore. Not everything has to be purely utilitarian. You can do psychedelics just because you enjoy exploring different dimensions of consciousness, in the same way that people like to go hiking or traveling to other countries.

It's better to spend 8 hours on LSD than 8 hours watching TV or 8 hours working in a cubicle.

It's not only sadhguru but most of the popular gurus, eckhart Tolle http://arsspiritus.com/spiritual-master-eckhart-tolles-lsd-experience/

So you're basically saying you enjoy it and its recreational.

Saying doing Lsd is better than watching TV is just an opinion or preference.

In one of your videos you said if you want pure joy we could just hook you up to meth on an iv, but that wouldn't be life.

[pluto]

Well said Leo, i have also come to the same conclusion about psychedelics lately. I have been driven back to a more endogenous approach and tripping far less often.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, blazed said:

So you're basically saying you enjoy it and its recreational.

No, it's a lot deeper than recreation.

Everything is a preference. Even enlightenment is a preference. There's no imperative to be enlightened. You're basically doing it for shit and giggles.

Out of all the ways you could utilize your time, psychedelics are one of the best (relatively speaking). And they produce lots of growth.

Enlightenment is not the only game in town. There's also psychological growth, emotional maturity, shadow work, etc.

[JustinS]

The 5MeO experience

 

[AlwaysBeNice]

There's so many paths, this one valid path, but boosting yourself through a substance can make for a rocky road, but it does produce fruit as well, and that has made it very worthwhile for me.

When masters say: 'don't do it, just use this (my) path', that's fine too, they know that it can be done sober as well, and that may be relevant for most people because it certainly is a tricky thing to recommend. 

But to say that it's inherently unwise is bs.

When you think about, you think that all these chemicals produced out of nature that can work on the human mind, is some sort of coincidence? 

No, it's made by the Self, for the Self, made by the same mind that is Ramana Maharshi, Echkart Tolle, Sadguru, You.

But you certainly don't need anything to just be still either..

- And by the way, an easy going psychedelic also exists, which can be great for meditation/self-inquiry, quite underrated for this path imo: marijuana. 

[JustinS]

@AlwaysBeNice

42 minutes ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

And by the way, an easy going psychedelic also exists, which can be great for meditation/self-inquiry, quite underrated for this path imo: marijuana. 

I just did some marijuana last night 'ceremonially' not just recreationally or getting by, it was beautifully intense. Setting an intend to look inside is totally different than watching tv shows or going on a hike. I'd say it was almost as intense as an ayahuasca ceremony..

[blazed]

1 hour ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

There's so many paths, this one valid path, but boosting yourself through a substance can make for a rocky road, but it does produce fruit as well, and that has made it very worthwhile for me.

When masters say: 'don't do it, just use this (my) path', that's fine too, they know that it can be done sober as well, and that may be relevant for most people because it certainly is a tricky thing to recommend. 

But to say that it's inherently unwise is bs.

When you think about, you think that all these chemicals produced out of nature that can work on the human mind, is some sort of coincidence? 

No, it's made by the Self, for the Self, made by the same mind that is Ramana Maharshi, Echkart Tolle, Sadguru, You.

But you certainly don't need anything to just be still either..

- And by the way, an easy going psychedelic also exists, which can be great for meditation/self-inquiry, quite underrated for this path imo: marijuana. 

I just look at the psychadelic crowd and then the non psychedelic spiritual crowd who don't take it, and to me one crowd stands out more.

Judging from Leo's last comment here and the fact he said he will do 30 day meditation with lots of 5-meo it seems the results were weak at best.

Psychedelic as I understand it, is only useful for someone who is completely and utterly locked in the science or materialistic world, who denies anything beyond such things then yes, i agree such a person probably needs 5-meo shoved up their ass, but beyond that not really useful.

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I've had amazing insights on 5-MeO-DMT. But a permanent enlightenment has proven elusive. The ego-mind returns.

See this is the whole problem, "The ego mind returns" is actually the ego saying that, the ego is taking away the enlightened experience away from you, that's the whole f**king problem "no this can't be enligthenement" it has to be like this or like that, it has to be giving me insights like 5-meo or I must be high to be enlightened, "enlightenement seems to be elusive".

No enlightenment is here right now, it's been here the whole time, when you was 5 years old you was in the now, 30 years old you're still in the now, everything has changed except the "now". Enlighenment is everything that you know right now in this moment, its existence, It's just not good enough for you, it's so f**king simple that the ego throws it away and says "nah that ain't it" it's too bland, mundane, regular. You never lost it, you were always it, but the ego keeps convincing you otherwise. And this why enlightenment can be seen as an on/off thing, because you can always convince yourself otherwise with the mind, the mind is the obstacle, you're in your own way.

When you self reflect you realise you were always in the now, there wasn't a time where you were not in the now, the now is the only permanent thing that never changes.

Am I here: yes.
Do I exist: yes.
Am I Aware: yes,
Where am I located? Here,
How far? here no distance.
Is the experence known? yes.
Where is the experience? here.
Does the experience change? yes.
Do I change? no.
I am present, always, in the now, forever.

You can enter samahdi in deep meditation but you're not suppose to cling even onto that, both the emptiness and all the changing phenomena is one and the same, and the mundane boring and so normal experience is also truth, don't deny the truth.

Actually the truth cannot be denied, only the ego can convince you that it is not so.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, blazed said:

No enlightenment is here right now

Yes and no.

You ain't enlightened, till you are.

Telling people they're enlightened when they really aren't is very likely to confuse them so much that they will never glimpse enlightenment.

The Truth is ever-present. But whether one is conscious of is another matter.

5-MeO is a tool. Just like meditation or yoga are tools. No tool guarantees results. Any tool can be misused.

[john23]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes and no.

You ain't enlightened, till you are.

Telling people they're enlightened when they really aren't is very likely to confuse them so much that they will never glimpse enlightenment.

The Truth is ever-present. But whether one is conscious of is another matter.

Leo you mentioned a few days ago that you found something even better than 5-MeO-DMT is that another substance or kriya yoga? I don't remember you specify. 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, john23 said:

Leo you mentioned a few days ago that you found something even better than 5-MeO-DMT is that another substance or kriya yoga? I don't remember you specify. 

A chemical substance.

[john23]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A chemical substance.

Do you plan on the future making a video on it? If so there is a timeline aprox? Like 2 months?