The 5-MeO-DMT Mega-Thread

[Leo Gura]

If you guys want to argue about time, you can do that in another thread. This one is about 5-MeO and it's long enough as it is without such distractions.

[Faceless]

I was asked a question that is related to methods, systems, and techniques which are movements of time. 

I’m sorry, I didn’t think there was an argument taking place?

And I agree arguing is a waste of time. 

It’s just that, ‘time’ has to do with just about every conversation on this forum.

Funny how that is huh ?

 

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, Outer said:

@Faceless You can argue as much as you want, just not in a thread about 5-MeO-DMT.

Make a new thread and discuss it there instead.

It's like going to a book club and raving about movies.

There is no arguing here guy. I answered a question 

Edited March 1, 2018 by Faceless

[Leo Gura]

I would like to make a correction. I found out yesterday that my scale was weighing the 5-MeO-DMT wrong. An effective rectal dose isn't 10mg, but more like 20mg. 20mg gives me a pretty deep trip. 24mg is Absolute Infinity for me.

Also I learned that 5-MeO-DMT is apparently legal to purchase in Canada. Hooray for Canada!

There is also an analogue called 5-MeO-MET which is supposed to be very similar to 5-MeO-DMT, although I have not verified this yet myself. There is also 5-MeO-DALT, which I know even less about, but might be an interesting alternative.

My current experience says that 5-MeO-DMT is hands down the best psychedelic for nonduality work. It just blows everything else out of the water. If you can access it, it's really the only one you need. Its clarity is unrivaled. Other psychedelics can be profound and interesting, but 5-MeO-DMT is pure awakening. I have experienced levels of awakening on it so deep that I seriously doubt most enlightenment teachers have accessed such levels of awakening. At these levels, you just become God itself to the point where you cannot even understand how you ever believed you were a human being or that you were even born into the 21th century.

I awoken so deep on it I forgot I was born. I forgot there was a past or future.

Rectal method is by far the best way to take 5-MeO-DMT. And the sad part is, almost nobody knows about it.

[-Rowan]

@Leo Gura Why is a rectal method more effective? I've never done any psychs so putting them in your ass is obviously a bit of an odd concept for me 

Also, in saying that 5-meo is the only psychedelic you need, would it be wise for a beginner to psychedelics start with very very low doses of it and over time build up to bigger ones? Or would you say that trying shrooms or perhaps LSD in decent doses is still important to the beginner? I'm just thinking it would save a lot of time if 5meo was 'the only real psychedelic you need'. 

Thanks,

Rowan

[zikzak]

@Leo Gura Well that makes more sense that your dose was higher. So you tried both 20 and 24 mg?

How can you say that rectal ROA is the best if you haven't tried to smoke(vaporize) it? Rectal administration has some obvious advantages: slower onset and longer duration. But the opposite could easily be an advantage too (sometimes or for some people).

@-Rowan You'll probably get an answer from Leo also but my 2 cents: It's a matter of temperament. When I heard about 5meo I knew this was the one I was interested in and went straight for it. Was I ready for it? Absolutely not Could I have been more ready for it by trying other psychedelics before? In a way no. You can't be ready for it in a sense. In another way yes. If I was to start with other psychedelics before doing 5meo I would do as you propose yourself some of the longer longer lasting ones: 4-ACO-DMT and/or LSD (with ALD-52 or 1P-LSD you probably more sure to get accurate dose). And then sorter lasting: DMT - which IMO is a good "training psych" before 5meo. I has rapid onset and pretty damn intense in its own way.

Edited March 2, 2018 by zikzak

[art]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I would like to make a correction. I found out yesterday that my scale was weighing the 5-MeO-DMT wrong. An effective rectal dose isn't 10mg, but more like 20mg. 20mg gives me a pretty deep trip. 24mg is Absolute Infinity for me.

Also I learned that 5-MeO-DMT is apparently legal to purchase in Canada. Hooray for Canada!

There is also an analogue called 5-MeO-MET which is supposed to be very similar to 5-MeO-DMT, although I have not verified this yet myself. There is also 5-MeO-DALT, which I know even less about, but might be an interesting alternative.

My current experience says that 5-MeO-DMT is hands down the best psychedelic for nonduality work. It just blows everything else out of the water. If you can access it, it's really the only one you need. Its clarity is unrivaled. Other psychedelics can be profound and interesting, but 5-MeO-DMT is pure awakening. I have experienced levels of awakening on it so deep that I seriously doubt most enlightenment teachers have accessed such levels of awakening. At these levels, you just become God itself to the point where you cannot even understand how you ever believed you were a human being or that you were even born into the 21th century.

I awoken so deep on it I forgot I was born. I forgot there was a past or future.

Rectal method is by far the best way to take 5-MeO-DMT. And the sad part is, almost nobody knows about it.

To bad porn and non-duality isn't a big thing. A demonstration of this rectal 5-meo-dmt thing would be a good video for YouP**n.

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, -Rowan said:

@Leo Gura Why is a rectal method more effective? I've never done any psychs so putting them in your ass is obviously a bit of an odd concept for me 

Nothing odd about it at all. It's simple and effective. Medicine is commonly taken up the butt.

It's smooth, gentle, and consistent. It's hard to screw it up, compared to vaping or snorting.

Quote

Also, in saying that 5-meo is the only psychedelic you need, would it be wise for a beginner to psychedelics start with very very low doses of it and over time build up to bigger ones? Or would you say that trying shrooms or perhaps LSD in decent doses is still important to the beginner? I'm just thinking it would save a lot of time if 5meo was 'the only real psychedelic you need'.

You'd want some experience with easier psychedelics first, and at low doses.

12 hours ago, zikzak said:

@Leo Gura Well that makes more sense that your dose was higher. So you tried both 20 and 24 mg?

How can you say that rectal ROA is the best if you haven't tried to smoke(vaporize) it? Rectal administration has some obvious advantages: slower onset and longer duration. But the opposite could easily be an advantage too (sometimes or for some people).

The longer and smoother the trip, the better. The whole point here is understanding, contemplation, and integration. A 5 minute blast into hyperscape is just not going to integrate well. If there was a way to make 5-MeO last 10 hours, that would be the ideal. Also, you want to minimize the potential for bad trips and trauma. Blasting your brain with smoked 5-MeO isn't ideal. Rectal doses are still extremely potent and deep, beyond what most people can handle.

[egoless]

@Leo Gura are you going to stop using psychadelics anytime soon forever?

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, DrMobius said:

Leo,  does it burn the arse

Nope. There's an odd sensation for about 20 minutes which goes away and seems to be harmless. Certainly less burn than sorting it.

37 minutes ago, egoless said:

@Leo Gura are you going to stop using psychadelics anytime soon forever?

Nope

[completegraph]

Did 27mg of 5-meo-dmt rectally today. It started coming up within a minute and it was extremely fast: all I remember was that I became paralyzed and the last parts of me struggled to surrender during the come-up and then I was obliterated.

Then I looked at the clock and realized I must have blipped out for 15-20mins. At that point, there was also the immediate recognition that my so-called physical reality had shattered as it was all seen as fabrications of the mind. Extremely shocking, but not so radical as I've had such awakenings on high doses of 4-aco-dmt.

Have any of you experienced such a "white-out" where there's no recollection of the peak?

Also, is there a connection between this and cessation, which is the culminating event leading to stream-entry in theravada buddhism?

[Leo Gura]

@completegraph Your dose was too high. Drop it down to 20mg.

The point is to become conscious of the truth, not to barely recollect it after the fact.

[Hsinav]

6 hours ago, completegraph said:

Have any of you experienced such a "white-out" where there's no recollection of the peak?

 

Yes I have, I find a very fine line from breaking through and breaking through with a "white out". 

[Hsinav]

@completegraph

More preparation before with meditation/relaxation and lower doses seems to solve the problem for me.

[Hsinav]

@mkieblesz Great talk!

[Hsinav]

7 minutes ago, DrMobius said:

Damn this guy articulates it so damn well. The music analogy is great!

Agree, he´s really getting close here!

[Neo]

@Leo Gura 

Quote

If there was a way to make 5-MeO last 10 hours, that would be the ideal.

The effects used at the peak of another psychedelic can last for several hours.

Source: http://www.dmtsite.com/5-meo-dmt/information/sources.html

 

[Forestluv]

My latest 5-meo-dmt trip:

I previously have done about seven 5-meo-dmt trips, starting at 10mg and worked up to 30mg. I've had anxiety and surrender issues with other psychedelics, yet not with 5-meo-dmt.

This time I plugged 32mg, weighed out on a research grade 1mg scale. My third time plugging. The powder was ground fine and none stuck to the syringe - so I think I got nearly the entire 32mg.

I think I may have hit my upper limit since I sorta blacked out during the peak. There was a lack of being present and aware. Perhaps this was due to complete loss of self, such that there was no self to experience or remember. About 10min. of the 30min. trip was in this quasi dreamlike state I don't recall. The other 20min. were similar experiences on dosages of 25-30mg.

I'm not sure if this is the exception or the rule for me at 32mg+. Yet, I'm not interested in high dosages that cause pseudo blackouts.

Overall my experiences have both similarities and differences to what I've read.

1. I have not had any anxiety, panic or surrender issues - not even into ego death and blackout zones. I previously tripped about 30 times on other psychs and have had several intense surrender struggles. Perhaps this allowed for a smoother ride with 5-meo-dmt. As well, I think the short duration helps. When I lost control with Ayahuasca I knew I was in for a 4hr. ride and panicked because I couldn't stop it. With 5-meo-dmt I know it's not that long. For both psychedelics, the concept of time disintegrates, yet I find it easier to let go and surrender knowing it's a short duration. 

2. I've only had moderate increases in heart rate and minor rectal discomfort with plugging. I had yucky nasal drip snorting it - even with the upside-down head trick.

3. Dosages of 10-20mg feel so chill and sublime. Like what I imagine heroine would feel like.

4. At dosages of 20-25mg it feels like I am at a "more evolved" conscious level (although that notion doesn't exist during the trip). In Spiral Dynamics terms, it feels like what I've read about yellow / turquoise levels. It's like I step out of my lower green and orange levels. This seemed to be the range where I was conscious of truth and could integrate it smoothly into my "regular" life.

4. Dosages of 25-32mg cause complete dissociation from my body and "my story". A type of liberation. At one with the changing energy of nothing / everything. 30-32mg was too high. I wasn't very conscious and not much was integrated into regular life.

5. I have not had any "omfg!! I am god and created the universe!!" type of experiences. Perhaps I interpret the experience differently.

6. Overall, the most alluring state for me is in the 25mg range. I'm not sure if this is because I want to develop into this state of awareness in my waking life. 

7. 5-meo-dmt is definitely a unique substance and complements other psychedelics well. For me, the lysergics/tryptamines are in one similar group, san pedro is unique and 5-meo-dmt is unique.

8. My trip durations have been about 30min. I wish they were about 2hrs. 

[completegraph]

@Serotoninluv I've only used 5-meo-dmt a few times and I also have not yet had the "omfg!! I am god and created the universe!!" experience.

So far, I think my 4-aco-dmt trips (in the 75-100mg range) have been more profound. From those trips it did feel as though I was everything and God, but these insights were oftentimes interpreted from closed-eye visual and mental phenomenon which showed me that this was the case (and perhaps other factors such as energetic expansion).

 

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv Yeah... stick to under 30mg dosages. You went too high. Small dosages also means more trips.

Around 25mg seems like a good sweet spot. It's epic, but still manageable.

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

5. I have not had any "omfg!! I am god and created the universe!!" type of experiences. Perhaps I interpret the experience differently.

This is super-interesting to me. I wonder why this happens? Not everyone sees God on 5-MeO. But tt happens to me EVERY time and it's so powerful. And it also happens to be me almost every time on other lesser psychedelics.

I think we all have different brains/minds and so the psychedelic unlocks certain aspects of your brain/mind. If you are not primed for it, you will not experience God. I think it helps to do a LOT of existential contemplation/philosophy.

When I experience God, it's not so much that I merely "experience" it, rather my mind becomes infinite and I feel my mind crawl over the mind God, and as it's doing so, it becomes the mind of God. There is still a thought process happening, but it feels like my thoughts have become hyper-multi-parallel-processes. My thoughts become slow, infinite, very intuitive, and cosmic in scope. It feels like my mind is able to contain all of God.

The last time I tripped on 5-MeO, I became so infinite that I could look at an object and see the infinite chain of causes the created. It is like pure infinite knowledge. Like omniscience. Every object in existence has infinite causation. Take a paperclip for example. There is an infinite chain of actions which has led to its creation.

My working hypothesis is that different brains will access different aspects of God in different ways (either with or without psychedelics). Which is why spiritual people argue with each other so much. They assume everyone is the same. But this is almost certainly false. There may be realms which your brain simply cannot access, or might have difficulty accessing without proper conceptual frameworks.