The 5-MeO-DMT Mega-Thread

[maxpechura]

There is an episode titled “Updated : DMT Vaping With The Zeus Sub Ohm” from Minty Love. It's about how to make non-rebuildable atomiser tank vaping (“sub ohm”) work for you.

That episode is the one from which I learnt most of the stuff that I will talk below. I compiled a short how-to guide to vaping to complement the Minty’s video. It’s for those people who tried snorting or plugging 5-meo-dmt (or 5-meo-malt) but want to try a different ROA (route of administration). I get a feeling from talking to others that vaping is a superior psychedelic delivery method that most people will find their way to in the end. But there are some supplies you need to buy first and a bit of learning curve to this. Another reason why vaping appeals to me is that once you’ve figured out how to do it, it’s available at a moment’s whim any time any place. So, you can make it a permanent lifestyle fixture (i.e., work it into your routine somehow).

Shree pointed out to me that with his emesh rda, vaping smoke smelt like burnt rubber and I never had that problem with sub ohm, which inspired me to write this very guide. In general, I would describe the 5-meo smell more pleasant than unpleasant.

I also have some experience smoking n,n-dmt in the GVG Vapour Genie pipe. I fumbled a lot with it and made mistakes. Nothing wrong with the pipe if you know what you’re doing. But the trips were very difficult on me because I used a lot of substance. Vaping allows you more control over the dosing. In this way, you won’t blast yourself to the smithereens by accident. So if you mostly use a pipe and the going is hard, this could be a reason for you to try ejuice vaping.
 

Supplies you’ll need to buy:

0) Psychedelic (e.g., 5-meo-dmt or 5-meo-malt). Since the freebase version of 5-meo-dmt is as available as the HCL version, you can go with the freebase version.

But what about 5-meo-malt? I haven’t heard from anyone about the freebase version being available anywhere. There’s a way to convert HCL to freebase as discussed here.

However, recently What Am I highlighted that if you dissolve your 5-meo in a liquid vehicle, then you can just use the HCL version. No conversion is (arguably) required.

If you’ve gone emesh rda, you’re not affected by the above discussion and you still need to convert. So, this might be another reason for you to try sub ohm.

It’s even possible to smoke the HCL version of any chemical by applying direct heat (i.e., no liquid carrier involved) the same way you would the freebase version but it’s been reported that the results are poor.

 

1) Mod. I guess any mod will do but if you don’t already have one, go with Geekvape Aegis Solo 100W TC. There are two versions of Solo: V2 and the original V1. Minty argues that V1 is of higher quality than V2 (“temperature control issues”) but only some stores still stock V1 and you will need to be able to tell V2 and V1 apart to get the original. However, there's nothing wrong with V2 either if you aren't too picky. I’ve got version 1 and I’m happy with it. An example of Version 1 can be found here.

2) Battery. The Solo mod uses a 18650 battery. Brand of battery doesn't matter (for intents and purposes of this guide) as long as the size is right (any vape shop will carry these). The available sizes for different mods are: 18650, 20700, 21700

3) Tank. I’ve got Geekvape Z Sub Ohm (Zeus) Tank. I had Cerberus tank and it would leak as it had the “hatch” (airflow control) at the bottom as opposed to at the top like Zeus tank does. So learn from my mistakes.

4) Coils. I’ve got Geekvape Z Series Coils (Pack of 5). Make sure the coils are for Zeus tank (as per the Minty's guide). Coils also come in sizes. Minty recommends (listed in the order of preference) Z0.15, followed by Z0.15XM and, lastly, Z0.2 coils. I’ve got Z0.2 and I’m happy with them. The tank will come with one coil installed inside it. Mostly probably it’s Z0.2. So, these are spares.

5) Vegetable Glycerin (VG). It’s a thickener, i.e., prevents leaking, and it also prevents dry hits. A dry hit is an unpleasant experience in which, when you take a hit from your vaping device, you are left with a bad taste in your mouth and a vapourless hit. This is often the result of there not being enough e-liquid on the wick (in this guide, our wick being coil), which leads to a dry, cotton-like taste in your mouth after inhaling.

6) Propylene Glycol (PG). As per Girzo, Vegetable Glycerin (VG) is responsible for clouding. You don't want big clouds. You want as little smoke as possible. Ideally, you would want propylene glycol (PG) only, but it's impossible. The mix would be too runny and seep in between the gaps of the device. But if you like lots of smoke feel free to use the 50/50 mix. Usually, your choice is between 70/30 and 80/20. You will need to see for yourself if 20% or 30% VG makes more sense to you (or if you can even feel a difference)

7) Drip Tip for the tank. Size 810 for the Zeus tank. Don’t get size 510 by accident. I've got one of these in 810:

8) Syringe. A small syringe preferably (e.g., 1ml, 5ml, 10ml, etc.) with a needle if possible. From your pharmacy or off the internet. They are optional but useful. So, the tank has a narrow hole (“fill port”) through which you will need to deliver your liquid ejuice. As you would imagine, a needle is very narrow. The syringe could also help you measure out 3 ml of PG and 1 ml of VG if you decide to go 75PG/25VG (see below).

Mixing:

Mixing 5-meo-dmt (or maybe 5-meo-malt) ejuice for sub ohm:

1) PG/VG mix ratio: Minty mentions 80PG/20VG and I use that too

So, if you decided to mix 4ml of carrier, then 80% PG means 3.2ml of PG and 20% VG means 0.8ml of VG.

2) Substance to carrier ratio: I go 1:4, meaning 1 gram of 5-meo to 4 ml of PG/VG mix. An important side note here is that Minty mentions the ratio for n,n-dmt. But 5-meo packs more punch than n,n-dmt per mg. 1:4 works for me but if you find that the vaping experience is too intense, then you can dilute the liquid vehicle with more PG/VG mix.

3) Mod wattage: Minty mentions 30W-35W. I set 33W

4) Toke length (holding the substance smoke in your lungs): Minty mentions 6-10 seconds. I would start by holding in the smoke for brief 5 seconds to understand if you didn't take too much.

For example, 1 gram of malt, 3 ml of PG, 1 ml of VG will give you 75/25 1:4.

 

When loading liquid remember to be quick (as Girzo and Minty conveniently pointed out). Otherwise, the liquid will seep through the bottom and you will need to collect it with a syringe and repeat the procedure. This one won't be obvious before you see it for yourself. Basically, at some point your will need to take off the top of your tank and load the liquid carrier (with your syringe, probably). Then you will need to replace the top quickly as to avoid the problem described above.

P.S. Word on the street is that 5-meo-malt from Canada 🇨🇦 is higher quality than the Dutch 🇳🇱 malt. I believe that too. So, if you’re buying malt, get it from Canada.

P.P.S. There’s an alternative of getting a vape pen and then loading your eliquid into a cartridge. People swear by it but I’ve never tried it. So do your own research if that’s the road you want to take.

Edited April 8 by maxpechura

[Bittu]

I've been talking with spirits or something after my 5-MeO DMT experience a few years ago. It's like a daily habit to talk with these spirits and I can't find a rational explanation for it at all.

[maxpechura]

For the setup described above in my guide for Geekvape Aegis Solo sub ohm vaping, you're using the "plug and play" coils (e.g., Z0.15, Z0.2, etc.). You will only use POWER mode. You won't need other settings (TI, SS, NI, TCR, VPC, BYPASS) that the mod comes with.

To switch the mode of operation for Geekvape Aegis Solo:
1) Press the Fire button 3 times in quick succession to enter the setting mode.
2) Highlight the working mode with the cursor then press the "+" or "-" button to toggle between working modes.

It's not always obvious how to turn the device on or off:
Press the Fire button 5 times in quick succession within 2s

In the Power working mode, press the "+" or "-" button to adjust the power (we want 33W).
The mod will not turn off automatically. Instead, it will go into the stand-by mode draining the battery a little bit over time.
You can charge the device using a cable that the mod comes with.

Cheap Zeus tanks, Z0.15 coils and beautifully crafted drip tips are available on AliExpress.

Here's the mod parts diagram from the owner manual:

Note that the 510 connector shown above is for the tank when you screw it on on top of the mod. You will screw the drip tip on top of the tank. For the Zeus tank, the connector for the drip tip is 810.

Also, on the diagram above the airflow control is located at the bottom of the tank. However, Zeus tanks have airflow opening at the top of the tank, which is a better design because that the juice can’t leak out as the hole is high above.

Here's some guidance from the manual describing loading your liquid vehicle into the tank (Zeus has the capacity of 5ml):

N.B. The user manual states that the mod comes with two 0.4 resistance coils (and we want either 0.15 or 0.2). However, the tank also comes with a coil (preinstalled inside the tank). In the case of Zeus, it’s probably 0.2.

Edited April 25 by maxpechura

[maxpechura]

Here are some posts I found about possible Routes of Administration:

Spray

Plugging

Snorting - Self-explanatory. Get a 10mg microscoop (shown in the leo's plugging guide above or the red one from ebay). One scoop contains 7mg of 5-meo-dmt (not 10mg).

Smoking a pipe - Vapour Genie and other pipes

Intramuscular injection

Subcutaneous (SQ or Sub-Q) injection - you can also see What Am I's opinion on the subject. Get a 10mg microscoop for measuring out small doses. One scoop contains 7mg of 5-meo-dmt (not 10mg).

Intravenous injection

Vaping - see below for different options

 

What are your choices for vaping your psychedelic?

Vaping ejuice (liquid carrier)

What is ejuice?
E-juice, also known as e-liquid or vape juice, is a liquid mixed with a psychedelic substance used in electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes) and vaporizers. It is heated by the device to produce an aerosol (vapour) that users inhale. E-juice can be used with a variety of vaping devices, such as vape pens and box mods.

Non-rebuildable 'Sub Ohm'

Rebuildable 'Sub Ohm’

E-cigarettes and carts (vape pens)

 

“Dry” vaping (vaporising the substance itself as opposed to vaporising liquid)

Emesh rebuildable atomisers (RDA)

Dr. Dabber Boost Evo

 

P.S. Read this article about Dosage measurement on psychonautwiki.

P.P.S. Get a 10mg microscoop

Edited June 23 by maxpechura

[maxpechura]

I’ve gone non-rebuildable atomiser route (‘sub ohm’) and my notes are about that method. So, continuing on the same subject as my previous messages in this thread.

Maybe I’ll begin by saying that there’s a learning curve with sub ohm. Problems do arise with this method, like burnt coils, figuring out how to mix ejuice that has just the right amount of spice, ejuice leaking through the coil and other issues. The method is solid but you’ll need to invest some time and thought into it to make it work for you. I would try this method if you tried other methods of vaping (emesh in particular) and didn’t like something about this other methods. For example, maybe emesh produces an acrid vapour which you can’t stand. Vaping with a sub ohm tank always feels nice to me (unless you burn the coil when the level of liquid gets too low).

See below an example of a burnt coil:

I wanted to contrast sub ohm (the method I use for my own method and which I’m championing here) with rebuildable emesh, which does require a little more initial setup and initial thought but has fewer moving parts. So emesh is easy to use and doesn’t require special maintenance. Emesh is easier for scaling your dose – you measure out a desired amount using a scoop (e.g. 10mg), transfer that amount on the emesh and off you go.

With sub ohm, if you dissolve 1g of chemical in 4ml of pg/vg, you’ll need to finish your 5ml of ejuice first before trying a different ratio of chemical to liquid. Alternatively, you could add more spice to the existing ejuice but it only works one way, i.e., you can increase the concentration of your ejuice but you can’t decrease it.

I also wanted to contrast sub ohm with vape pens, which don’t seem temperamental and are easier to set up initially.

So, both rebuildable sub ohm (which I haven’t tried) and non-rebuildable (with pre-made coils sold at vape shops) sub ohm have their use case but you need to understand their drawbacks in terms of getting everything setup just right. But after you've figured out all the little intricacies, it works very well.

Your best source of information for non-RDA Sub Ohm is appropriate subsection on the Minty’s website.

 

I don’t want to regurgitate the same information as in the link I just provided, nor can I do a better job than Minty.  However, I want to point out some things that I found relevant after having vaped 5-meo-dmt recently.

As previously stated, you can vape hcl (or any other salt) when dissolved in ejuice (found in rebuildable and non-rebuildable sub ohm atomisers and e-cigarettes). So, you don’t need to convert HCL to freebase.

In our context, the choices of the principal carrier (to which we’ll add VG and the psychedelic) are PG, PEG400, Liquify Pro. There are others but PG is good enough.
 

Another thing that I recently realised is the same package as the tank arrives in will contain a spare glass, which Minty calls straight glass. There are two types, bubble and straight. Bubble glass is 5ml and straight glass is 3.5ml. Your Zeus tank will arrive in mail with the bubble glass fitted (i.e., the tank comes assembled with a big size glass).

Because the straight glass has a smaller capacity, it’s better to swap bubble glass for straight glass as we then need less ejuice to fill up the tank. The reason we want to fill up the tank at least up to a certain point (to cover the coil) is because our coil needs to soak up more ejuice to replenish what we had consumed. So, with a smaller capacity tank, you can fill up the tank fuller with a smaller amount of ejuice to cover the coil completely (coil is upright).

So as Minty states for the straight glass you need 2.5ml-3ml of mixed juice. 3ml being max without risk of over-filling. Of that amount, 0.5ml will be soaked into the coil.

Example. 1.6ml PG and 0.4ml VG gives 80PG / 20VG solution. Add 0.5g of 5-meo-dmt. So, you get 2.5ml of ejuice with 1:4 ratio.

Different types of drip tips:

A sample bottle for storing ejuice:

Edited June 21 by maxpechura

[maxpechura]

Loading ejuice into a Zeus sub ohm tank

The Zeus tank manual contains the following diagram:

I want to point out a mistake I have made several times: don't load your ejuice into one of the Airflow Control vents (your ejuice will travel straight to the tank base as these vents are used to draw the air in inside the tank).

What you need to do is take off the top cap, which will expose the top of the Top fill chimney.

Your needle needs to go inside one of the holes on top of the Top fill chimney.

Please be diligent when replacing the top cap. Otherwise, your ejuice will leak through the coil and will gather at the tank base.

 

The vape and tank manuals have the following instructions concerning the loading steps described above:

Here's another one:

Edited June 21 by maxpechura

[maxpechura]

You will need to filter your ejuice as not doing so will clog up your needle when transferring the ejuice to the tank.

Your have several options to filter your ejuice:

1) A blunt tip (“drawing”) needle with gauge between 15g-20g. The smaller, the better for our purposes as 10g has the biggest diameter. So the idea is the needle is so wide it doesn't get clogged. However, ports themselves have a size. So I don’t know if 10g will fit through the fill port.

2) Use a bit of cotton inside the needle hub or at the syringe tip (you take the plunger out and push in a piece of cotton to the needle tip opening from the inside)

3) You get Syringe Filters PTFE Membrane 1.0μm Pore Size 13mm Diameter by Ks-Tek from AliExpress

 

Carriers for your ejuice (on the picture you see Liquify Pro, PEG400 and PG)

 

Minty has an appropriate section on his site for ejuice.

Edited June 23 by maxpechura

[PsychedelicEagle]

On 6/20/2023 at 10:32 AM, Starlight321 said:

@Soul Flight use as little white vinegar as possible. Freebase is poorly water soluble hence converting it into salt via vinegar. you are right with the importance of hitting the right depth injecting it. Put rubber band around number six on the scale of the one ml siringe and that should be how deep you'll insert it. You might adjust it a little for your body though. Don't inject too past, let it slowly trickle. You should notice 10 mg, if not adjust the depth and you position. Your butt should point up like a dog on its 4 feet. No soda needed. Slowly up your dose from 10/15mg in 5 mg steps. Some might end up with 40mg.

Watch this video:

https://www.actualized.org/insights/how-to-plug-psychedelics

 

I wouldn't plug nn dmt on your place because you will need rediculesly much and waste substance. Consume some with harmalas but never consume 5 meo dmt with harmalas. It's too easy to kill yourself if you're not an expert and even then...

@Starlight321, should I also use water or only white vinegar? I mean, should the syringe contain only vinegar or should add some water to the final product, before plugging? And, what type of white vinegar/concentration should it be?

PS: Thanks a lot for your post.

Edited August 6 by PsychedelicEagle