The 5-MeO-DMT Mega-Thread

[Scholar]

21 hours ago, Barna said:

@Scholar I think you are right. Thank you for your post, it's very interesting.  

In my opinion the thought that "awareness is inside the head" is a belief. "Awareness is the creator of everything that exists" is a belief. "All is one" is a belief. "There is something outside of mind" is a belief. Every possible "Truth" is a belief. Even my sentences about beliefs can represent beliefs, or meta beliefs, if you like. 

So what would be your path towards the Truth? How do you get outside of beliefs, outside of mind?

I guess the truth is just stopping to construct truth. It's not even the truth, it's just what it is. The more I do this work, the more I meditate and contemplate, the more it seems like everything is just exactly what it is. The words are just words, the expiriences are just expiriences. There is nothing more to it, not even nothing-more-to-itness.

It seems more like we are all playing a game, in the end it's pointless either way. The pointlessness doesn't even need to be accepted, it's just how it is. The game is played no matter what you do. It seems like the mind likes the idea of ultimate truth, or any truth. It's really, really attached to it. 

I'm at a point where I have a hard time to believe Leo about enlightenment. It all seems like more delusion. It looks like the path leads to ultimate close-mindedness, in a way that is irreversable. When the mind recognizes that the mind is all there is, then there is nothing it can trust but itself. Why is it that when taking a psychedelic that we expirience something beyond the mind? Why is it that doing meditation for decades gives us the absolute truth? Both of them are an alteration of the mind, of the structure. What it really changes is the mind, not the deeper truth.

In the end it's just another paradigm. Yes, Leo says it's not. He claims that only with direct expirience you recognize absolute truth. But even that is simply just a believe, created as a result of that expirience. Maybe there is no way around it. Maybe if I had this "expirience" right now I'd believe the same thing. Expirience is all we have after all, so what can we trust if not that?

This is a very strange property of the mind. It can predict. It can say "If I take 5-meo-dmt, I will have an expirience of absolute infinity". What if Leo has taken a path that lead him to absolute delusion? 

To me it seems like there is beyond the mind. It's not something, because anything is the product of the mind. It's beyond words, beyond concept and even beyond expirience. It's so inaccessable that it is truly unknowable. Even saying it's outside of the mind is no fitting. It's so inaccessable that even saying it's inaccessable is wrong.

In the end though it's just another belief, like the resulting beliefs after expiriencing true self. I guess absolute skepticism doesn't allow any belief, no matter what expirience was made. Leo might be right, he might be completely wrong and delusional. I can see that now, and I feel silly for having believed in enlightenment.

The more I do this, the less I feel like I know, and the more skeptical I become. I don't know, but it seems like there is something to this tool of prediction that I am using. I don't know what it is, and how it is doing what it's doing, but it seems to be the one guide there is. It's not even speaking truth, it's just predicting. It seems like it might be the same tool that creates a paradgim of absolute infinity, or non-duality. The tool that speaks.

 

It's so strange. Why can I give an explanation for whatever people call enlightenment? Why can I predict it with a model of reality that I know cannot be really what is?

Using this model it makes complete sense that when taking 5-Meo-DMT there must be an expirience of absolute infinity, of god, because all of the subjects reality will be revealed as a creation of the "true self", the mind that is unknowable, unconscious.

Of course it will happen, it's the only thing that can happen. And yes, to the person who does expirience it, it will be literally real. Because that is what real is, what reality is, a complete construction.

All the buddha says makes complete sense under this system of belief. True love make sense and is explainable.

Now, of course Leo will tell me that he is directly expiriencing god, because he is. But I know what his god is, it's the root of his reality, the creator of his little simulation, which to him seems vastly infinite, because it is truly all there is for him.

This makes me just so much more skeptical about whether all these expiriences are just nonsensical, and it just furthers the belief that we cannot expirience anything beyond the mind, beyond reality. We can never know if there is something beyond reality, or what it is. It's a true mystery, that is beyond us, forever. 

This is what it seems like to me.

 

When using psychedelics, and doing self-inquiry, you are literally changing the structure of the mind, and thus the structure of your reality. Just as the normal human being is absolutely certain that he exists, a human being without the sense of self will be absolutely certain that he is all of reality, or all of the rest. This will be his reality, and unless the structure changes, it will persist, and be truly the reality of that subject.

My suspicion is that no reality can come to whatever is beyond it. Thus, enlightenment is nothing but an altered state of reality. It's subjective, but even subjectivism exists in this reality alone.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Scholar

[Barna]

@Scholar your intellect is amazingly high. I love reading your posts. And again, I think you might be right.  

I personally don't really care about Truth or enlightenment. But I love how meditative states feel like. I love how 5meo feels like. I love how Oneness feels like. I love how Love feels like. If I can be in ecstasy, why would I care if it's real or not? When I am infinite, it doesn't feel like I am inside my mind, it feels like I am infinite.  When one wants to feel Infinity then the thought that says "it's all just inside the mind" is a blockage. So one has to release this thought to truly experience Infinity in all its glory.  

So to summarize: I don't use beliefs to define the Truth, I drop beliefs to feel ecstasy.  

[zikzak]

Guys get a grip - this is a thread on hard drugs

[Barna]

5-meo kills you. If you are not ready to let yourself die, then you will fight for your life and this fight can feel like hell. 

But it's fun to die, no biggie.  

[Kserkkj]

@Barna Are there any negative side effects to 5-meo? I did shrooms a while ago and it kinda affected my concentration and working memory, although the increased responsibility was more than enough to make that up. Is it the same with 5-meo? 

[Barna]

@Kserkkj It affects concentration for a few hours after using it. It feels like being in love.

[Guest username]

On 4/27/2017 at 3:32 PM, Leo Gura said:

My brother and his wife tried some 5-meo. Works great on her, but not so much on him. He's very logical. She's very spiritual.

Seems like some brains might not be designed for spirituality. Which makes sense, because it explains why most of the world isn't into Truth. The majority of humans are probably designed to be worker-bees to sustain the hive. We can't have everyone running around being a hippy. That's my pet theory for now.

How did it work for him? Did he see God and everything but just not care for some reason?

[Leo Gura]

@username No, he did not see God from what I understand.

The mind has to be willing to "go there", so to speak.

You can bring a mule to water, but you can't make him drink

[Leo Gura]

@Snick-The ThinkTank Man... notice that you engage in a lot of blah, blah blah... Drama, drama, drama...

Just fucking do it already, and enjoy reality.

[Galyna]

2 hours ago, Snick-The ThinkTank said:

I am prepared to die as ego! 

But I am not prepared to find life itself an illusion.

but when you ego is dead who is going to be there to care that life is illusion? These two sentences contradict each other   I love the way how you building your thought here and creating profile of your own thought process. 

 

2 hours ago, Snick-The ThinkTank said:

If changes, motions, time and space are not possible. 'How can life even exist then?    

that is my favorite question too , here is the link for you, only ten minutes, he explains there how

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2017 by Galyna

[Loreena]

Well Snick just wanna sit and have a coffee with Winston Churchill hehe. Now that's enlightenment for Snick. 

 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Loreena

[Loreena]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Snick-The ThinkTank Man... notice that you engage in a lot of blah, blah blah... Drama, drama, drama...

Just fucking do it already, and enjoy reality.

Do you see this error when you open your bookmarks. I get it.

Template forums/front/global/snippet does not exist. This theme may be out of date. Run the support tool in the AdminCP to restore the default theme. You are an IT guy so. 

 

 

[Barna]

@Snick-The ThinkTank you will not "really" die. In the worst case you will fight for your life for 10 minutes. Grab your balls and take it like a man! 

(side note: you don't even have to literally grab your balls) 

[Seed]

Has anyone ever considered that Absolute Truth is just another illusion?? 

[Dodo]

7 minutes ago, Seed said:

Has anyone ever considered that Absolute Truth is just another illusion?? 

Absolute truth is anything that is absolutely true. If absolute truth is another illusion, then illusion is the absolute truth.

If Illusion is always true, that is the definition for absolute truth... 

It is absolute truth that the present moment is all there ever is. There are many absolute truths. But about The Truth with capital T, I guess is some experience of subject and object becoming one and stuff!

[Seed]

The place you go to when you take DMT - that you call Absolute Truth. How do you know that isn't another illusion? If so, then it isnt Absolute Truth is it... I'm speaking hypothetically.. 

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, Seed said:

The place you go to when you take DMT - that you call Absolute Truth. How do you know that isn't another illusion? If so, then it isnt Absolute Truth is it... I'm speaking hypothetically.. 

I don't know, I havent done any psychedelics. I had the same objections some time ago. 

"You've taken a drug, how are you so certain bla bla bla"

If it's absolute truth, it is here right now. Why does one need a drug to see it. I think self enquiry is enough.

But for those who want to get something tangible to talk about and say how you now have "got it", sure go for psychedelics!! 

[Barna]

@Seed The Absolute Truth is individual for each perspective, simply because the objective world doesn't exist. For whom would it exist? See? 

If you live your life as a person then this is your absolute truth. If you live your life as a manifestation of God then this is your absolute truth. The question is: which truth feels better to live by? 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Barna

[Dodo]

10 minutes ago, Barna said:

@Seed The Absolute Truth is individual for each perspective, simply because the objective world doesn't exist. For whom would it exist? See? 

If you live your life as a person then this is your absolute truth. If you live your life as a manifestation of God then this is your absolute truth. The question is: which truth feels better to live by? 

I have to disagree, the absolute truth is not about believing you are something and making that belief the absolute truth. The absolute truth is when all beliefs about who you are are dropped and you see the truth behind the concepts

[Barna]

14 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

I have to disagree, the absolute truth is not about believing you are something and making that belief the absolute truth. The absolute truth is when all beliefs about who you are are dropped and you see the truth behind the concepts

Is this your belief about the Truth?

11 minutes ago, Dingus said:

If it's a perspective, then by definition it's relative, not absolute.

And by definition, truth is not truth unless it is absolute.

And by definition, untruth does not exist...

I was just trying to point out the ridiculousness of the idea of Absolute Truth.

You are searching for the absolute because you think that there is something else than the present moment. The present moment is always individual, always relative. Have you ever experienced something objectively?

Edited May 3, 2017 by Barna