The 5-MeO-DMT Mega-Thread

[bobbyward]

I dont find the 5meo experience to be as dramatic and profound as some do. one thing i learned from doing it today is, your true nature cant be worked out by thought, no thing is too subtle, it cant be thought. silence and taking attention away from objects is the best way.

 

[AlwaysBeNice]

On 4/8/2017 at 2:30 AM, bobbyward said:

I dont find the 5meo experience to be as dramatic and profound as some do.

How much have you done?

[Barna]

I have a question for this experienced group: 
How do you go deep in meditation?

I just meditated and a short conversation took place in me:
- Do you want to go deep?
- Yes!
- Then why don't you take some 5meo?
- It's too intense.
- Then what do you mean by deep? 

And the thought in my head was right. I cannot go deep in meditation because I'm afraid of the intensity...

So what are your excuses?
If you want to meditate deeply then why don't you take some 5meo?
And if you do, how do you convince yourself? 

[zikzak]

On 3/11/2017 at 1:16 AM, Psychonaut said:

@bobbyward I use about 2-3ml per syringe. My 5-meo-dmt is not water soluble. It doesn't dissolve, there are basically 5-meo-dmt particles floating around in water. Maybe adding oil will help, something like coconut oil.

But I rather stick to water then I can reuse the syringes and don't loose all the meo sticking to the inner side of the syringe. 

Last time I divided 30mg into 2 syringes.

I use a small container similar in size of a shootglass to mix the liquids and then just suck it up with the syringe.

I would advise using the syringe to add water to the powder. Otherwise you can easily add too much water.

My method is far from perfect. I feel like I loose 5-10mg that sticks to the syringe or stays in the container I use to mix. But I don't give a shit. Literally. Plugging is much smoother and easier to relax. You can lie on the bed for the entire duration.

I break through every time. 

So you use 30mg (minus 5-10mg) for a break through dose?

[Psychonaut]

17 hours ago, zikzak said:

So you use 30mg (minus 5-10mg) for a break through dose?

Thats about right. Nowadays 20mg also gets me there. 

Last time I snorted 20mg. Ewww disgusting. Much larger urge to throw up. Harsher than plugging. 

On 08/04/2017 at 2:30 AM, bobbyward said:

I dont find the 5meo experience to be as dramatic and profound as some do. one thing i learned from doing it today is, your true nature cant be worked out by thought, no thing is too subtle, it cant be thought. silence and taking attention away from objects is the best way.

A friend of mine also "claimed" to not get any effect from 5-meo-dmt. We did 20mg together and I was blasted away. The second trip he did 40mg plugged. No effect again. Tbh I believe his ego resists the energy and just "blocks" the experience. I haven't told him that. But from my experience the Ego goes far far far deeper than anyone can imagine. Maybe you also have to be ready for it and don't get an effect if it is "not the right thing" to do. I felt a strong pull to 5-meo-dmt and that it was the "right thing for me" to do and it has helped me a lot. But everyone is at a different state. 

[zikzak]

Thanks Psychonaut :-)

 

As for the other subject - I don't buy into "the ego resists the energy therefore no effect". Surely you can fight it but if a person does not feel any effect from let's say 20mg freebase effectively vaporized then it's more likely to be some kind of tolerance to the substance more than something to do with ego, IMO. Take him for a spin with 20mg vaporized and see how he responds

[ZeN]

Here is another new great Joe Rogan podcast that features the brother of Terence McKenna, Dennis McKenna. They discuss psychedelics and culture and also shortly about 5-MeO (Starts at 36:17).

 

[Hsinav]

On 2017-02-09 at 9:13 AM, Vanish said:

 

I would like to convert freebase to fumerate/salt in a simply way and found this on the web, can anyone confirm that this technic works!?

1) Completely dissolve 1000 mg of freebase DMT in 50 ml of acetone.
2) Completely dissolve 309 mg of fumaric acid in another batch of 50 ml of acetone.
3) Mix for 1 minute and evaporate at room temperature to give DMT fumarate.

 

I can now myself, confirm that this method of converting freebase to fumerate works!

[zikzak]

Plugged 20 mg (HCL). Very mild effects. Not in any way close to a full blown experience. Just mild body & emotional sensations..
 

[Leo Gura]

On 4/16/2017 at 7:43 AM, zikzak said:

I don't buy into "the ego resists the energy therefore no effect". Surely you can fight it but if a person does not feel any effect from let's say 20mg freebase effectively vaporized then it's more likely to be some kind of tolerance to the substance more than something to do with ego, IMO. Take him for a spin with 20mg vaporized and see how he responds

My brother and his wife tried some 5-meo. Works great on her, but not so much on him. He's very logical. She's very spiritual.

Seems like some brains might not be designed for spirituality. Which makes sense, because it explains why most of the world isn't into Truth. The majority of humans are probably designed to be worker-bees to sustain the hive. We can't have everyone running around being a hippy. That's my pet theory for now.

[jse]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My brother and his wife tried some 5-meo. Works great on her, but not so much on him. He's very logical. She's very spiritual.

Seems like some brains might not be designed for spirituality. Which makes sense, because it explains why most of the world isn't into Truth. The majority of humans are probably designed to be worker-bees.

It's the Soviet gene pool, @Leo Gura .  It was mostly designed for a society of engineers, and not philosophers.  Unless there is Vodka involved.

[bobbyward]

for me to get a breakthrough with hcl plugged i need to do 70mg.

25mg freebase

[zikzak]

1 minute ago, bobbyward said:

for me to get a breakthrough with hcl plugged i need to do 70mg.

25mg freebase

Wow, 70mg HCL. Yes 20mg seemed very light for me - I sensed that next step would be 30 mg. But maybe eventually more judging from your experience.

25mg freebase - plugged or vaporized?

[bobbyward]

25mg freebase vaporized.

i started off with 35mg hcl, and just kept going up. 

[zikzak]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

My brother and his wife tried some 5-meo. Works great on her, but not so much on him. He's very logical. She's very spiritual.

Seems like some brains might not be designed for spirituality. Which makes sense, because it explains why most of the world isn't into Truth. The majority of humans are probably designed to be worker-bees to sustain the hive. We can't have everyone running around being a hippy. That's my pet theory for now.

How did they consume it?
I heard Dennis McKenna mention on Joe Rogan that about 3% don't react to psychedelics (or was it tryptamines ).

I have witnessed a few people being hard to crack but I still find it almost unbelievable that most wouldn't crack with 20/25mg vaporized effectively..

[zikzak]

4 minutes ago, bobbyward said:

25mg freebase vaporized.

i started off with 35mg hcl, and just kept going up. 

25mg freebase vaporized - then you're a bit of a hardhead I cracked at 11/12mg..
Thanks for the input - plugged seemed promising though - just a bit more expensive if one needs >30mg

[Huz]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My brother and his wife tried some 5-meo. Works great on her, but not so much on him. He's very logical. She's very spiritual.

Seems like some brains might not be designed for spirituality. Which makes sense, because it explains why most of the world isn't into Truth. The majority of humans are probably designed to be worker-bees to sustain the hive. We can't have everyone running around being a hippy. That's my pet theory for now.

Isn't your mind logical? It can seem like that from the way you go in depth and speak about you videos. I think you mentioned it before anyway.

But are you like your brother or you brother's wife in terms of how Meo affects you?

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, Huz said:

Isn't your mind logical? It can seem like that from the way you go in depth and speak about you videos. I think you mentioned it before anyway.

But are you like your brother or you brother's wife in terms of how Meo affects you?

There is a middle path, Leo is on it from what I see

Edited April 28, 2017 by Dodoster

[Scholar]

It doesn't seem to make sense for me that taking a psychedelic will reveal a universal truth about reality. I think, infact, that it might be a huge trap into deep and absolute delusion of the mind.

I have no expirience with psychedelics, and I am planning to try them at some point, but for me there are a few aspects about this entire thing that make me far more cautious about what my mind is telling me.

I think people do not quite realize, on an intellectual level, what reality is. Our mind has tools to inspect and abstract reality in a certain way. It can take inaccessable informational structures and create simulations that, then, are useful for prediction of the informational structures themselves. This is, infact, what is happening right now as I think about this topic.

We have a model of reality, within our reality. So, this model of reality is depicted as dimensional, motional and casual (there is time, space and cause for everything). With this model we were able to create a certain understanding of the mind, an abstraction that allows us to explore certain functions in a very specific language. 

With that language we have created a map, which we call the brain. The brain is the result of using our tools to inspect inherently inaccessable informational structures in a certain way. We know that, if we manipulate the brain, according to the map we have created of it, there will be certain changes to the reality that is happening within it. We don't really know what the brain is, we only have a map of it, which exists in what the map is created of.

But thanks to that map, to those tools, we can aquire a certain sense of the global reality of the mind. We can isolate certain aspects of the simulation and then inspect the entirety of the simulation in an abstracted way.

 

This is why when we take a gun and shoot someone in the head, we know what the simulation of reality within that human being will stop, it will cease to exist, or atleast be altered severely. This process of altering the reality of someone else is a very interesting thing. It begs the question of what exactly reality for the mind is.

And here it gets very important for our investigation of the mind. When we start to look at the mind in this particular way, we have to recognize that it is a kind of simulation that can be altered by manipulating informational structures, that we have created a dimensional map of. You can tell yourself that mind is everything, it will not change the fact that I can use my map of the brain to completely wipe out your reality. 

What is this simulation? What is it really?

We can simply start to inspect what is required for your reality to function the way it does. What exists in the mind?

Very obvious is the sense of dimensionality. The human mind is capable of generating space, direction, size and motion. It is capable of creating colors, sounds, all feelings, tastes and scents. Beyond that, it is obviously capable of creating a sense of identification, of "me" being a particular part of the simulation. All of reality that you expirience right now is the simulation. Absolutely everything is the simulation, without a single exception. Saying something is "me" or "other" is simply the creation of a sense that distinguishes certain aspects of the mind. We have to be aware of the fact that it is the mind that is creating the sense, and that it could do it otherwise. The sense of I is not inherently limited to one thing within the simulation.

Now, let's simply imagine that the simulation would decide to create a sense of identification for absolutely everything within the simulation. And now you might say, "Oh yes, that would mean that I would identify with everything! I'd be the trees, the world, the entire universe!", which would indicate that you have not even remotely a clue of what the simulation is.

You would not only identify with certain aspects of the simulation, like the output of specific informational structures (the tree, the body, the world, the universe), but you would identify with the creation of these informational structures themselves. You would identify with the part that is creating dimensionality, and thus you would recognize that it's unlimited. The mind can simulate infinite space, the only reason why it doesn't is because it's useless. The mind can literally create the sense of being an entire universe, why wouldn't it be able to?

Beyond that you would of course identify with the creation of motion itself, with the creation of time, of past, present and future. You would literally identify with the process that is simulating the past within the mind, aswell as the process that is creating the future, and that is evaluating the present moment. You would get a sense of unlimited presentness, past and future because you would recognize that the mind is capable of creating it. Beyond that, you would even identify with the root simulation of every feeling possible, you would be the creation of feeling, of absolute, infinite love. The intensity of love is only limited for practical reason, there is really no limit to it.

Beyond that, of course, you would identify with the most basic sense of reality itself. You would identify with the creation of reality, the simulation of absolutely everything that is happening in the mind. And beyond that, you will most likely identify with even more, the pre "calculations" of reality. You might identify with a sense of one dimensionality, because it might be a necessary part to construct further dimensionality. 

 

Basicly, there will be an idenfitication with the tools that create the entirety of your reality. You will feel like god, because literally everything, everything you can possibly expirience, will be revealed to you as you. Basicly, what one is expiriencing, is the uconscious mind, the mind that is creating all of the mind. It's so fundamental, so abstract and unimaginable, that it is beyond every normal conscious expirience of the mind.

You will love everyone and everything because you will recognize that it is a creation of yourself. What else can you call this, but god?

 

This is why it is so incredibly dangerous for truth seekers. The entire simulation of your reality is not necessarily all of reality. If you identify with the creation of your reality, it will seem like god. It will seem like absolute infinity, because it is capable of creating any reality. Every single one of us is underestimating the capablities of the mind. The mind is creating everything, absolutely everything. All senses, all ideas, all expiriences, even those that are beyond our consciousness. I suspect that taking 5-meo-dmt makes one remotely aware of it, makes on identify with the creation of reality itself, which is nothing but a simulative act. The creation is so abstract that the conscious mind is uncapable of grasping it. It is beyond imagination, because imagination is a product of these processes.

The delusion happens when there is  a certainty that the expirienced reality is all of reality. It doesn't get us closer to what it is that all of it is happening in. It doesn't seem spiritual at all. It's a change, a play of the mind. A game that doesn't bring anyone closer to the truth. Yes, it will fill you with love, it will show you god, the creator of all. But this god is not everything there is, he is simply everything there is for you. The trap is to believe there is nothing beyond the mind, or that one can truly access all of reality. It's quite strange because this god is creating everything in reality, because all of reality is your simulation. It will give you the feeling of absolute certainty, because you are right. All of reality is created by this one thing. You will never concieve anything beyond it.

The recognition of that, of being uncapable of knowing, of seeing anything beyond it, must be the most difficult thing to accept. That we truly know nothing about reality, and we never will. That we are, forever, stuck in this bubble. That expirience is all there is for us. I guess most people just give up and claim that expirience is all, that the mind is all there is. That god is the creator of reality. From their perspective it's absolute truth, it's literally true, in their reality, which is why they are so certain of it. They have a direct expirience that all of reality is created by themselves, by god, and that this force is capable of creating everything it pleases. That this god, is so powerful and infinite, that it can create anything possible, even the impossible.

 

I'm not sure if one who has taken this particular path can recognize this, because for them, even this very thought is a creation of that god. They have the direct expirience of this, what I am thinking right now, is a creation of this god. It is absolutely true for them. There is nothing beyond it, it's all there is.

But maybe it's not. This is the trap of direct expirience, direct expirience is limited to direct expirience. It will give you absolute certainty, but it will equally give you absolute delusion.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Scholar

[Barna]

@Scholar I think you are right. Thank you for your post, it's very interesting.  

In my opinion the thought that "awareness is inside the head" is a belief. "Awareness is the creator of everything that exists" is a belief. "All is one" is a belief. "There is something outside of mind" is a belief. Every possible "Truth" is a belief. Even my sentences about beliefs can represent beliefs, or meta beliefs, if you like. 

So what would be your path towards the Truth? How do you get outside of beliefs, outside of mind?