Ending Animal Slaughter

[jimwell]

 

Click on 'CC' to enable English subtitles. 

Humans need to do better than this. I acknowledge that this horror is God's will, otherwise it wouldn't have existed. And it is the best possible thing which can exist as of now. I don't have scientific evidence to support this claim. But I have my intuition, logic, and "awakening", which is that God is always in control of all things. God has the most superior intelligence, so it is sure that whatever exists, is the best and how it should be. 

But I can't ignore my limited, human perspective. I also need to acknowledge that slaughtering animals for survival is cruel and evil. "Evil is only in your head.", "Evil is relative.", "Evil, only because you are selfish and want to survive.", and all other "higher, spiritual phrases or insights" are empty to me. In the end, murdering animals for whatever reason is unacceptable and we need to do something about it.   

When I looked into the eye of that beautiful, black bear at 3:57 of the video, I cried! I saw beauty and intelligence, which was about to be destroyed and slaughtered. I also felt overwhelming compassion. And what really made the tears fall down my face, is that I am just as guilty as the bear farmers (butchers). I don't kill black bears. But I eat chicken, pigs, and cows. That automatically makes me an animal murderer. I would literally murder those animals if there were no butchers doing it on my behalf.

Thankfully, there seems to be a good solution. Click on the link below to watch the video.

Japan’s first lab-grown real beef (petri dish protein)

I haven't contemplated just how much of a game-changer that can be because I don't have time to do so. I'm still too busy doing survival shit. I'm just squeezing this post in because it is very important. As of now, my gut feeling says that the petri dish protein is the way to go. And I hope that it really is. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by jimwell
enhanced punctuation

[Preety_India]

I hope that this crisis is dealt with in the coming decades and these poor animals get freedom from torture. 

We need a stronger ethic as humanity. Hopefully we reach there. 

[trenton]

4 hours ago, jimwell said:

When I looked into the eye of that beautiful, black bear at 3:57 of the video, I cried! I saw beauty and intelligence, which was about to be destroyed and slaughtered. I also felt overwhelming compassion. And what really made the tears fall down my face, is that I am just as guilty as the bear farmers (butchers). I don't kill black bears. But I eat chicken, pigs, and cows. That automatically makes me an animal murderer. I would literally murder those animals if there were no butchers doing it on my behalf.

I agree that the bear had beautiful eyes.

I want you to not guilt yourself too hard for failing to live up to a vegan ideal.  Remember, people who work in slaughter houses end up with all kinds of mental problems like ptsd.  They must insist to themselves that animals are less valuable than humans in order to keep doing such a job.  With your attitude, you probably would not work in a slaughter house, and most people don't want that kind of job. Sometimes factory farms have a hard time hiring people. Equating yourself to a deeply evil or unconscious person will only lead you to tearing yourself down and it is not resourceful.  Keep in mind that humans could not have made it this far without killing fish and squirrels and cooking them over fire.

If you want to help animals, then I think it would be most effective to frame it as an issue of human health.  Yes it is selfish and biased, but this is how most people think.  If we have more research done on the damages caused by micro plastics for instance, then we would have more proof that we are killing ourselves through feeding factory farm animals literal plastic garbage.  I told my doctor about these things and he just assumed that there was not too much of it and we would be fine.  Pushing science further in understanding human health and our relationship to the environment would ultimately translate into better treatment of some animals. 

As for poachers, it looks like some animals need to be moved to zoos for protection even though this is depressing for them.  They walk back and forth in an anxious manner if you look at them long enough.  They don't like being out of their natural habitat and they start going crazy.  This is the dark reality underlying an innocent child laughing and saying "look at that cool tiger!". My grandfather used to be in prison for his drug deals and he never enjoyed the zoo after that because he could feel the animals were trapped like he was.

[Rokazulu]

Actually, any small step in the direction of quitting meat and eventually all animal products is good enough.

Most believe it is healthier to consume a diet with meat or some kind of animal product; which is easy enough to believe in, since there is no realization or greater insight needed to continue this way.

However, the truth is that every individual has the potential to live on no food at all, so long as they can find a connection to a higher source. The less able they can tap into that higher source, the less able they will be able to cut off the desire for the denser foods. For sure, the ego loses control and allows the body to wither if they do this too quickly. So go at your own pace,

Maybe just try eating only plant-foods once every week. This anyone can do.

[trenton]

@Rokazulu I remember Neald Walsh wrote that God gave us bodies meant to last forever and a perfect God would give us no less.  Just imagine what the world would look like if nobody needed food.  It seems crazy to think about, but if it were possible it would make a world beyond recognition.

Where did you hear about this ability to live without food?  What is a higher source of alternative?  How can I tap into it?  Immortality is a fascinating topic.

[Rokazulu]

2 hours ago, trenton said:

@Rokazulu I remember Neald Walsh wrote that God gave us bodies meant to last forever and a perfect God would give us no less. 

Where did you hear about this ability to live without food?  What is a higher source of alternative?  How can I tap into it?  Immortality is a fascinating topic.

Your interest and openness to this topic is rare and valuable.

Anything within consciousness is possible, though highly improbable due to how we currently structure our society.

I first heard about this subject from Ray Maor, who described himself as a "Breatharian" only living through prana (chi). Though, in reality he was still consuming food, just very little of it (about 300 calories of fruit every day). However, he did prove that it was possible for the human body to indeed survive without food and water for eight days on Israeli national television under the most extreme medical scrutiny and surveillance.

This of course, has been a thing known in India as a particular siddhi (supernatural ability) for awhile; gained through samyama of the breath (deep rhythmic breathing). Which was a bit of what Ray Maor had to do, in order to stay healthy during his 8-day fast. Of course, the ritual alone cannot produce that type of health, there also has to be a deep-type of meditation and/or a type of solid trust within the greater reality of God.

Paramahansa Yogananda's autobiography gave many first-hand accounts of several sages he met in India (and elsewhere in the world) that were free of needing to consume any food at all. One such figure was named "Babaji", the "deathless guru" who apparently is thousands of years old, and sort of living half in the physical realm, and half in the non-physical sphere. This type of attainment is, of course, exceedingly unique. Though, we also heard that Jesus neither ate or drank for 40-days as well. There is also Ram Dass's guru, Maharaji, who only consumed one glass of milk a day. As well as Li Ching Yun, a Taoist "immortal" who lived on herbs alone, and apparently lived to be 256 years old (Ostensibly, the Chinese government had records of his birth and sent a document that congratulated him on his 200th birthday). I am sure there are many more examples of such long fasts or those who eat nearly nothing at all, but none else come to mind.

Most who explore this endeavor do choose to eat again. It is a dangerous thing to go whole-hog breatharian as it is dangerous to go vegan— unless your body-mind-spirit is properly prepared for the journey. But the main reason breatharians always go back to eating food, is because it always remains a choice to do so. Without food, life (as we usually know it) would be utterly dull, for the most part. Which would explain why many mystics choose to die instead of pursuing an extension of life on Earth. However, it is likely, that highly evolved physical beings could operate a society— so magnanimous, that food would not even be necessary  to maintain a joyful existence on those planets.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Rokazulu

[trenton]

All of that seems so astounding that I would have to see it to believe it.  Life would be incredible if I discovered that the miracles of Jesus were more than just embellished fairy tales.  I should probably check out that biography you mentioned.  I'm immediately skeptical of these claims, but if they turn out to be true then it will blow my mind wide open.

I remember a trap is to value gaining powers over actually seeking truth.  It just makes my mind wonder what else in the universe could be possible.  It is a little bit like the psychological benefits of religion when someone believes that miracles are possible.  It makes me enthusiastic about exploring spirituality.  It is not about getting powers and using them per say, I just want to know what else is possible that I assumed was impossible.  If people can seriously levitate, walk on water, or live for 200 years through spiritual energy, then my paradigm which tells me what is possible or not would be shattered.

[Rokazulu]

18 minutes ago, trenton said:

All of that seems so astounding that I would have to see it to believe it.  Life would be incredible if I discovered that the miracles of Jesus were more than just embellished fairy tales.  I should probably check out that biography you mentioned.  I'm immediately skeptical of these claims, but if they turn out to be true then it will blow my mind wide open.

I remember a trap is to value gaining powers over actually seeking truth.  It just makes my mind wonder what else in the universe could be possible.  It is a little bit like the psychological benefits of religion when someone believes that miracles are possible.  It makes me enthusiastic about exploring spirituality.  It is not about getting powers and using them per say, I just want to know what else is possible that I assumed was impossible.  If people can seriously levitate, walk on water, or live for 200 years through spiritual energy, then my paradigm which tells me what is possible or not would be shattered.

Indeed. "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

A trap it can be— if desire is misplaced, but a greater trap awaits in assuming that the "Self" can never become more than is currently perceived or assumed.

It is not the ultimate, but it opens doorways.
 

[jimwell]

On 4/17/2022 at 2:27 AM, Preety_India said:

I hope that this crisis is dealt with in the coming decades and these poor animals get freedom from torture. 

We need a stronger ethic as humanity. Hopefully we reach there. 

I'm glad that you at least hope for it.

 

On 4/17/2022 at 7:19 AM, trenton said:

Remember, people who work in slaughter houses end up with all kinds of mental problems like ptsd.  They must insist to themselves that animals are less valuable than humans in order to keep doing such a job. 

Are you sure that butchers end up having mental problems? How did you know this? I think psychopaths are naturally attracted to butchering jobs. They love it. They can't be traumatized.

I'm not even sure whether normal humans get traumatized when butchering animals. It seems like a normal activity for them. 

 

On 4/17/2022 at 7:19 AM, trenton said:

Equating yourself to a deeply evil or unconscious person will only lead you to tearing yourself down and it is not resourceful. 

I am too self-loving and mentally mature to be torn down by such an ugly truth. Yes, my soul gets wounded, but not destroyed.

 

On 4/17/2022 at 7:19 AM, trenton said:

If you want to help animals, then I think it would be most effective to frame it as an issue of human health.  Yes it is selfish and biased, but this is how most people think.  If we have more research done on the damages caused by micro plastics for instance, then we would have more proof that we are killing ourselves through feeding factory farm animals literal plastic garbage. 

This will not work. Humans are too selfish to give up eating meat. And an omnivore diet probably is the healthiest diet. That's why providing a safe "meat alternative" is the way to go. With that, humans don't need to sacrifice much.

 

On 4/17/2022 at 7:19 AM, trenton said:

As for poachers, it looks like some animals need to be moved to zoos for protection even though this is depressing for them.  They walk back and forth in an anxious manner if you look at them long enough.  They don't like being out of their natural habitat and they start going crazy.  This is the dark reality underlying an innocent child laughing and saying "look at that cool tiger!". My grandfather used to be in prison for his drug deals and he never enjoyed the zoo after that because he could feel the animals were trapped like he was.

I see your point. Zoos surely have benefits. I still need to contemplate the good and bad of zoos to have better insights.

 

On 4/17/2022 at 0:23 PM, Rokazulu said:

But the main reason breatharians always go back to eating food, is because it always remains a choice to do so. Without food, life (as we usually know it) would be utterly dull, for the most part.

They chose to eat food again because the only alternative was death. Without food, there will be no life and no spirituality. There will only be death or nothingness.

Edited May 21, 2022 by jimwell
enhanced grammar

[trenton]

1 hour ago, jimwell said:

Are you sure that butchers end up having mental problems? How did you know this? I think psychopaths are naturally attracted to butchering jobs. They love it. They can't be traumatized.

I'm not even sure whether normal humans get traumatized when butchering animals. It seems like a normal activity for them. 

There are multiple websites on this issue. Not only is there PTSD, but there is also PITS. Here is one of the sites and quotes.

https://www.surgeactivism.org/articles/slaughterhouse-workers-and-ptsd

“Perpetrator-Induced Traumatic Stress” (PITS) syndrome, such as increasing dissociation and nightmares:

“One day I dream that the cow gets out at the stunning box. It was alive. Then, I think that I am crying and running, and that time I am not running. Down here! Down here! [motioning that he fell down]. The cow is coming and you fall down! You fall down!”

“I dream about the cattle, when you stun it, it just fall down, after falling down, when you open the door it will ask you: ‘Why are you killing me?’”

I see what you mean about the psychopaths being dissociated with what they are doing, and there are many ways in which this unusual way of thinking could be a talent. Perhaps working in a slaughterhouse is another way if they love it. Interesting idea.

1 hour ago, jimwell said:

I am too self-loving and mentally mature to be torn down by such an ugly truth. Yes, my soul gets wounded, but not destroyed.

Glad to hear it! Good for you! This is the balance we need to strike with such ugly realities.

1 hour ago, jimwell said:

This will not work. Humans are too selfish to give up eating meat. And an omnivore diet probably is the healthiest diet. That's why providing a safe "meat alternative" is the way to go. With that, humans don't need to sacrifice much.

This is a misunderstanding of what I meant. When I mean framing this as a health issue, I don't mean we should become vegans. There are some people in this forum like that, but not me.

I am referring to the fact that the EPA and FDA guidelines are outdated and poorly enforced. The food industry is deeply corrupt and responsible for all kinds of health issues aside from just meat. I am not saying we should get rid of meat, but if you want to improve the quality of meat, then we can start by not feeding animals plastic garbage. As for a meat alternative, I don't know what that would be, I never looked into that so much. What do you have in mind?

Other ways to reform the food industry require a widespread movement to challenge the lobbyists who stand to gain from the lead, mercury, pfas, arsenic, and micro plastics in our food and water. The treatment of animals is only a small portion of what I mean by health issues, as the concern is about putting cameras in factory farms and not feeding animals what we are feeding them. The rest is well beyond animal treatment, but such a movement would likely improve animal treatment a little. Sorry if I was not clear about all of this.

[Rokazulu]

2 hours ago, jimwell said:

They chose to eat food again because the only alternative was death. Without food, there will be no life and no spirituality. There will only be death or nothingness.

This is an assumption. Though, if assumed it is correct.

 

[Gidiot]

You mentioned neale Donald walsch, so I’d like to add in one of his newer books he said “the awakened species would never kill another not even out self defense, and would not be violent, unless asked to by another being” humanity still has a long way to go, we kill animals like it’s nothing and then keep dogs and cats as pets, it’s really messed up.

[jimwell]

On 5/22/2022 at 6:29 AM, trenton said:

There are multiple websites on this issue. Not only is there PTSD, but there is also PITS. Here is one of the sites and quotes.

https://www.surgeactivism.org/articles/slaughterhouse-workers-and-ptsd

“Perpetrator-Induced Traumatic Stress” (PITS) syndrome, such as increasing dissociation and nightmares:

I have read the article. Thanks! 

 

On 5/22/2022 at 6:29 AM, trenton said:

As for a meat alternative, I don't know what that would be, I never looked into that so much. What do you have in mind?

I included it in the original post but it expired. Here's a functional one. 

 

On 5/22/2022 at 6:42 AM, Rokazulu said:

This is an assumption. Though, if assumed it is correct.

 

Humans who seriously go on a hunger strike often end up dead. And why do you think all animals hunt other animals or eat plants? 

 

On 5/23/2022 at 5:03 PM, Gidiot said:

You mentioned neale Donald walsch, so I’d like to add in one of his newer books he said “the awakened species would never kill another not even out self defense, and would not be violent, unless asked to by another being”

Did he mention how the "enlightened species" would survive? 

Edited May 30, 2022 by jimwell
provided a new functioning link

[trenton]

@jimwell I find it fascinating that scientists can grow meat like that.

I read a little more about this and found two brands are beyond meat and impossible foods. The difference in environmental impact is too much to ignore not to mention all of the health issues and cruelty that can be avoided. If I had to choose a type of meat, then I would want to support a cause like this while fighting climate change.

Edited May 31, 2022 by trenton

[Razard86]

On 4/16/2022 at 2:19 PM, jimwell said:

 

Click on 'CC' to enable English subtitles. 

Humans need to do better than this. I acknowledge that this horror is God's will, otherwise it wouldn't have existed. And it is the best possible thing which can exist as of now. I don't have scientific evidence to support this claim. But I have my intuition, logic, and "awakening", which is that God is always in control of all things. God has the most superior intelligence, so it is sure that whatever exists, is the best and how it should be. 

But I can't ignore my limited, human perspective. I also need to acknowledge that slaughtering animals for survival is cruel and evil. "Evil is only in your head.", "Evil is relative.", "Evil, only because you are selfish and want to survive.", and all other "higher, spiritual phrases or insights" are empty to me. In the end, murdering animals for whatever reason is unacceptable and we need to do something about it.   

When I looked into the eye of that beautiful, black bear at 3:57 of the video, I cried! I saw beauty and intelligence, which was about to be destroyed and slaughtered. I also felt overwhelming compassion. And what really made the tears fall down my face, is that I am just as guilty as the bear farmers (butchers). I don't kill black bears. But I eat chicken, pigs, and cows. That automatically makes me an animal murderer. I would literally murder those animals if there were no butchers doing it on my behalf.

Thankfully, there seems to be a good solution. Click on the link below to watch the video.

Japan’s first lab-grown real beef (petri dish protein)

I haven't contemplated just how much of a game-changer that can be because I don't have time to do so. I'm still too busy doing survival shit. I'm just squeezing this post in because it is very important. As of now, my gut feeling says that the petri dish protein is the way to go. And I hope that it really is. 

......Bears kill fish. I have no idea how humans killing animals is evil, when literally every single life form kills for energy. Herbivores kill plants for energy, carnivores kill animals for energy. Humans killing animals for food is not evil, its the circle of life. In ancient times before humans gained technology....WE WERE THE FOOD. 

Now what is evil, is putting animals in horrible living conditions and growing them in this way to be slaughtered, drugging them, and over hunting them to dang near extinction. But a human killing an animal for food is just a human choosing to be a carnivore. 

[Rokazulu]

Quote

...And why do you think all animals hunt other animals

Quote

...when literally every single life form kills for energy

Life reflects life.
Behavior a consequence of life.

Anything can be changed in any domain.

It all begins with choice.

 

[Razard86]

On 5/21/2022 at 6:42 PM, Rokazulu said:

This is an assumption. Though, if assumed it is correct.

 

Everything you stated was an assumption. I have heard of these breatharians before as I read a book called Infinity of Gods. Unless you have experienced something...you really do not know it. So you are just spreading things you heard....NOT what you know. Is it possible? Well certainly....if you believe that everything is consciousness and whatever limits we place becomes reality. Jesus was even quoted as saying Man does not live by bread alone but by the Word of God. .....But again unless you have direct experience of actually living as a Breatharian and not needed food at all....it is merely an assumption of a possibility.

[jimwell]

10 hours ago, trenton said:

I find it fascinating that scientists can grow meat like that.

It is fascinating. No spiritual mumbo jumbo there. It is spirituality in action (philosophy, science, and technology combined and implemented).

 

10 hours ago, trenton said:

The difference in environmental impact is too much to ignore not to mention all of the health issues and cruelty that can be avoided. If I had to choose a type of meat, then I would want to support a cause like this while fighting climate change.

As long as it's safe to eat and it tastes like real meat, that's the way to go. I'm glad that you're sane. Cheers! ?

 

9 hours ago, Razard86 said:

......Bears kill fish. I have no idea how humans killing animals is evil, when literally every single life form kills for energy. Herbivores kill plants for energy, carnivores kill animals for energy. Humans killing animals for food is not evil, its the circle of life. In ancient times before humans gained technology....WE WERE THE FOOD. 

Now what is evil, is putting animals in horrible living conditions and growing them in this way to be slaughtered, drugging them, and over hunting them to dang near extinction. But a human killing an animal for food is just a human choosing to be a carnivore. 

All your points are valid. But they also show that you have not transcended your humanity or animality.

Yes, slaughtering animals to stay alive is normal. But just because it's normal, doesn't mean it is good or righteous. Evil is to inflict pain and death on other living things for your benefit. That's what butchering animals is all about. And that's what devils do. 

To transcend your humanity or "animality" (yes, humans are animals) means you are willing to bend the norm even if it causes inconvenience or it threatens your survival to honor the greater good. In this case, you show empathy, sympathy, and compassion to butchered animals and you take action to solve this horror even if it's inconvenient to do so. That's what separates spiritual humans from other animals.

 

1 hour ago, Rokazulu said:

Life reflects life.
Behavior a consequence of life.

Anything can be changed in any domain.

It all begins with choice.

 

This reply has no substance.

 

55 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

But again unless you have direct experience of actually living as a Breatharian and not needed food at all....it is merely an assumption of a possibility.

Correct. It's just a bad assumption. ?

[zurew]

15 hours ago, Razard86 said:

......Bears kill fish. I have no idea how humans killing animals is evil, when literally every single life form kills for energy. Herbivores kill plants for energy, carnivores kill animals for energy. Humans killing animals for food is not evil, its the circle of life. In ancient times before humans gained technology....WE WERE THE FOOD. 

Now what is evil, is putting animals in horrible living conditions and growing them in this way to be slaughtered, drugging them, and over hunting them to dang near extinction. But a human killing an animal for food is just a human choosing to be a carnivore.

Yes thats true, however, the big  difference is that  we can choose what we want to consume and how we want to consume it. When we are talking about morality, we assume some level of free will or agency and using that agency you can choose between taking action a or b or c. Thats why it is a moral issue, because we have a choice.

As we develop technologically,cognitively and spiritually etc the way we operate and how we view the world changes. Back in the day, rape and murder were okay, now they are not.

Also beside the moral side of it , its an environmental issue as well. So its a multifaceted problem, that needs to be looked at and thought about.

Edited May 31, 2022 by zurew

[Rokazulu]

5 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Everything you stated was an assumption. I have heard of these breatharians before as I read a book called Infinity of Gods. Unless you have experienced something...you really do not know it. So you are just spreading things you heard....NOT what you know. Is it possible? Well certainly....if you believe that everything is consciousness and whatever limits we place becomes reality. Jesus was even quoted as saying Man does not live by bread alone but by the Word of God. .....But again unless you have direct experience of actually living as a Breatharian and not needed food at all....it is merely an assumption of a possibility.

Of course, I have to admit this is true.

But, one assumption is more integrative, expansive, and empowering to human potential.
The other is limited in scope. As though we are forever slaves to the circumstances. Dis-empowering to our potential.

It is easy to see which belief has the greater probability of ascending our consciousness.

 

Quote

This reply has no substance.

I would say your choice does have substance.
All that has to be understood is that everything is impermanent. Anything can change.
Nothing stays the same in life. Everything evolves to garner the energy they need.
Since all is mental. All that is needed is a will to change. The intention to change.
Or at the very least, an entertainment of this idea as being possible.

Taking the very least further, people have proven that a plant-based diet is quite viable.
http://www.wikibin.org/articles/loreen-dinwiddie.html

Edited May 31, 2022 by Rokazulu