How to tell if your awakening is just conceptual?

[Terell Kirby]

I’ve been pondering this for quite some time. It has been mentioned many times that awakening and God realization is beyond concept, though being able to frame it thru language is helpful to get some kind of grip on what is being pointed to (The Self, No Self, Infinite Love, you are the Creator of reality, you are imagining stuff etc). Each of these punchlines helps in opening one’s mind … but the goal is not only open the mind, but transcend it.

How do spiritual seekers go from a conceptual understanding of Infinite Consciousness to an Absolute understanding that goes beyond the mind? @Leo Gura and others for insights. Thank you ?? 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Terell Kirby

[Carl-Richard]

When your mind doesn't shut up.

[WelcometoReality]

 

3 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

How do spiritual seekers go from a conceptual understanding of Infinite Consciousness to an Absolute understanding that goes beyond the mind? @Leo Gura and others for insights. Thank you ?? 

@Terell Kirby  It's a question that no one has an answer to. The shift can happen anywhere and at any time. From my own awakening I can say what probably triggered the shift to happen but that doesn't mean that it will trigger a shift to happen for someone else.

[Terell Kirby]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

When your mind doesn't shut up.

Lol I like the simplicity of your answer, but could you make a finer distinction? Cessation itself is only one aspect of the Infinite (if we consider it the same as the mind shutting up).

9 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

It's a question that no one has an answer to. The shift can happen anywhere and at any time.

And that’s the frustrating part .. I’ve had significant shifts in consciousness and there tends to always be human urge to have it validated by “others”….who are also just mental constructions.

[VeganAwake]

Yes it can feel extremely frustrating for the 'sense of self' that so desperately wants to experience awakening.

LOOK closely at this 'self construct' that wants to have an awakening or have its awakening validated.

- What is it?

- What is it made of?

- Does it actually exist?

 

 

[Terell Kirby]

16 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Yes it can feel extremely frustrating for the 'sense of self' that so desperately wants to experience awakening.

In my experience, this is true for seekers who have yet to grasp that they are not human … the idea of being a separate (objective) biological form is what constructs their sense of self.

However, God (what these self proclaimed “humans” really are) can experience a sense of frustration upon awakening...mainly due to the realization that it is the only entity that can awaken … since it is all that exists  … thus not be able to share and/or validate its experience with “other”… unless it constructs it. 

This thread itself is nothing but dialogue in the mind of God … talking to itself incessantly 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Terell Kirby

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

I’ve been pondering this for quite some time. It has been mentioned many times that awakening and God realization is beyond concept, though being able to frame it thru language is helpful to get some kind of grip on what is being pointed to (The Self, No Self, Infinite Love, you are the Creator of reality, you are imagining stuff etc). Each of these punchlines helps in opening one’s mind … but the goal is not only open the mind, but transcend it.

How do spiritual seekers go from a conceptual understanding of Infinite Consciousness to an Absolute understanding that goes beyond the mind? @Leo Gura and others for insights. Thank you ?? 

You will know when you awaken. It cannot be explained.  

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, Terell Kirby said:

And that’s the frustrating part .. I’ve had significant shifts in consciousness and there tends to always be human urge to have it validated by “others”….who are also just mental constructions.

Yeah, that urge will fall away aswell if you can let it happen. ?

[SeaMonster]

5 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

How do spiritual seekers go from a conceptual understanding of Infinite Consciousness to an Absolute understanding that goes beyond the mind?

Through surrender.  Spiritual seeking is self-deception -- it is finding more subtle and sophisticated ways to prop up the ego.  It conceptualizes spiritual attainment as an object of desire and creates all kinds of toxic ego dynamics (e.g. spiritual ego, pride and status.)

Spiritual "finding" is about letting go, not about getting or attaining.

Edited April 16, 2022 by SeaMonster

[Kksd74628]

@Terell Kirby

When you don't need to ask this question then it is something beyond conceptual.

[Terell Kirby]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

You will know when you awaken. It cannot be explained.  

Fair enough.

36 minutes ago, SeaMonster said:

Through surrender.  Spiritual seeking is self-deception -- it is finding more subtle and sophisticated ways to prop up the ego.

Yes spiritual seeking is self deception, as is all of egoic mechanisms, but what separates this one is that it ultimately annihilates the ego..if done genuinely. Seeking points to efforts to attain enlightenment, which does not happen automatically. Everyone starts from somewhere.

36 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

When you don't need to ask this question then it is something beyond conceptual.

Where does this intuition come from? Curious to hear your perspective.

[Kksd74628]

@Terell Kirby

You don't need to question anymore when you already have the answer. Based on this logic as long as you question you haven't attained the answer and when you don't have a need to question this anymore I would argue that you have the knowledge. It's not even intuition, but basic logic.

[Terell Kirby]

5 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

You don't need to question anymore when you already have the answer.

What is the answer then?

6 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

Based on this logic as long as you question you haven't attained the answer and when you don't have a need to question this anymore I would argue that you have the knowledge. It's not even intuition, but basic logic.

The spiritual path is anything but logical. When you get deep into the work, logic and reason are seen as flimsy constructs. I would challenge you to deconstruct logic .. you seem to put heavy reliance on it.

[Kksd74628]

@Terell Kirby

I already knew while adding that last part about the logic that all spiritual people will start an argument about it. I didn't mean it in a rational way that everything needs to be math or something. But what I just said was that you don't need to ask your teacher what is the answer for 2 + 2 when you already know that it is 4.

5 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

What is the answer then?

If you want something else, but conceptual answer why are you asking me to answer it conceptually . It doesn't matter what the "answer" is, because when you know it, you know it and that's it : )

-joNi-

[Terell Kirby]

2 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

I already knew while adding that last part about the logic that all spiritual people will start an argument about it.

Lol … sounds like you have a bias against these so called “spiritual people”. No one is here to argue with you, but you might be subconsciously looking to pick a debate with these types. Anyway, thanks for sharing your perspective ?? 

[Kksd74628]

@Terell Kirby

I don't have any bias towards spiritual people and I even see myself to be part of that group. It is just well known that, if you drop a word like logic in spiritual conversation then always there is one who says that truth does not need logic. Yeah I undestand that, but we were talking in relative level anyways and I just told you that, you know that you have an answer when you don't feel like questioning it anymore. What would be the point of asking question when you already have the answer for it? 

[SeaMonster]

37 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

Yes spiritual seeking is self deception, as is all of egoic mechanisms, but what separates this one is that it ultimately annihilates the ego..if done genuinely. Seeking points to efforts to attain enlightenment, which does not happen automatically. Everyone starts from somewhere.

It isn't done genuinely, that's the point.  People here will not admit that they don't really give a shit about "spiritual enlightenment" but rather they are looking for benefits, a better life, less suffering, etc. - i.e. they don't like something in their lives or are missing something.  In essence, they are no different than any other human being.  They merely think "spiritual enlightenment" is the golden ticket.  They can't possibly know what it is, they're merely placing a bet, so to speak.

Well, that's kinda the point.  Be honest and not afraid to sacrifice, i.e. give up what you cling to.  That's the price to pay.

Edited April 16, 2022 by SeaMonster

[Terell Kirby]

1 minute ago, SeaMonster said:

It isn't done genuinely, that's the point.  People here will not admit that they don't really give a shit about "spiritual enlightenment" but rather they are looking for benefits, a better life, less suffering, etc.

This is a gross generalization of why people pursue enlightenment. Quite an unfair assessment really ..

[Michael Jackson]

7 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

I’ve been pondering this for quite some time. It has been mentioned many times that awakening and God realization is beyond concept, though being able to frame it thru language is helpful to get some kind of grip on what is being pointed to (The Self, No Self, Infinite Love, you are the Creator of reality, you are imagining stuff etc). Each of these punchlines helps in opening one’s mind … but the goal is not only open the mind, but transcend it.

How do spiritual seekers go from a conceptual understanding of Infinite Consciousness to an Absolute understanding that goes beyond the mind? @Leo Gura and others for insights. Thank you ?? 

@Terell Kirby It is actually surprisingly simple to do that. But are you sure you WANT to do that? The price you'll pay for it is your life.

How to do it? Take enough 5-Meo-DMT. You don't need any concepts to awaken. Concepts are laughable in comparison to actual awakening. You don't need language. You don't need knowledge. You don't need logic. You are God, and you will fully grasp what that means once you awaken. Forget the kids toys like concepts and logic, take one good hit of yourself - 5-Meo.

[Terell Kirby]

9 minutes ago, Michael Jackson said:

How to do it? Take enough 5-Meo-DMT.

I was waiting for an answer like this . Holy cow