Committing Enlightened Suicide (Hypothetical)

[Simon Zackrisson]

WARNING: If you are sensitive to serious subjects, such as self harm, please consider discontinuing your participation in this thread.

 

I had this kind of outrageous thought of enlightenment in relation to actual suicide.

I am aware this might be a sensitive subject, however, I think challenging the fear of reasoning about serious things could lead to the apex of enrichment in one's personal development. 

So, if you've successfully managed to become enlightened, it seems as this is pretty close to actual suicide.

I can only imagine that there is someone who went one step further in this quest.
Anyone that have any reasonings concerning identity suicide in relation to physical suicide, and want to discuss, go ahead.

[Leo Gura]

Interesting question.

I don't see the connection really.

You are not the body or the mind. What you really are cannot be killed, like seriously! No kidding!

It's sort of like asking, "What if I become enlightened and decide to kill my dog?"

Well, you could kill your dog. But that dog never really was you in the first place. If you think killing the body will kill the real you, then you're far from enlightenment.

Your question is only a concern from the viewpoint of the ego, because it's very mistaken about what the truth is.

From the viewpoint of truth, truth cannot be killed.

[Simon Zackrisson]

Is physical death forced instantaneous enlightenment?   

[Dhana Choko]

7 hours ago, Simon Zackrisson said:

Is physical death forced instantaneous enlightenment?   

I am not sure if I understand what you mean. Physical death has nothing to do with enlightenment.

[Simon Zackrisson]

I'd imagine that end of illusion means truth.

Are you saying that it is only possible that one can be enlightened as the manifestation as a humanbeing? 

[Leo Gura]

The notion of death itself is largely a confusion of the mind. Death is technically speaking a belief. It's a projection into the future. A fantasy.

Imagine for a minute that you stopped believing in death. That death was just an old fairy-tale they tell to children. << That would a more appropriate attitude towards death than what most of us think.

It has to be this way just from a practical point of view. What significance could enlightenment have if the enlightened person was still afraid of death? Not much. Such a person would still be a nervous wreck and acting from ego. And the only way to not be afraid of death is to realize that it is a fantasy. You can't macho your way out of death. That's not what enlightenment masters do. They completely see through it instead.

[electroBeam]

I can see what you mean, the reason why we are afraid of death is not because we are afraid of losing our body, but because we are afraid of losing our self image. Enlightenment intellectually is losing the ego, and death is essentially losing the ego(from a thoughty, intellectual perspective)

Though Leo gave some good advice above ^ I will just add that Alan Watts agrees with Leo, enlightenment also involves the realization that death as we intellectually see it is impossible, he states that enlightenment apparently shows you that lack of experience cannot happen, and reincarnation exists; another way of saying that lack of experience cannot occur.

So according to Alan Watts, and adding to Leo's comments enlightenment is not like death, enlightenment is detaching from the ego, the ego still exists though you are 'detached' and see its true colours, and death is losing the ego in its entirety, you do not see it for what it really is or detach from it.

 

Though anyone's intellectual interpretation of the above is a vivid story compared to the real scenario, I probably don't have to assert this but take caution

 

 

 

[Dhana Choko]

13 hours ago, Simon Zackrisson said:

I'd imagine that end of illusion means truth.

Are you saying that it is only possible that one can be enlightened as the manifestation as a humanbeing? 

I would assume it is possible on all levels where ego exists. However, some teachers and high level healers say that enlightenment is actually easier in human form due to the perceiving of time and distance. I have no conscious collection of this however at this moment (pun intended :D).

[charlie cho]

I believe actual suicide does kind of co relate. in terms of Eckhart tolle. The ego couldn't take it so it killed the mind form by himself. Where other most people who actually do suicide..... wants to protect their mind form.... so they kill the real body instead in order to protect the mind form (thoughts). the most scariest thing is... thoughts are left. Suicide is actually, I think, is the success of the ego.

Edited February 7, 2016 by charlie cho

[Simon Zackrisson]

21 hours ago, charlie cho said:

I believe actual suicide does kind of co relate. in terms of Eckhart tolle. The ego couldn't take it so it killed the mind form by himself. Where other most people who actually do suicide..... wants to protect their mind form.... so they kill the real body instead in order to protect the mind form (thoughts). the most scariest thing is... thoughts are left. Suicide is actually, I think, is the success of the ego.

I believe it could be the success of an deeply rooted unhappy ego.

Here's some words I've written down some time ago, for purpose of potential use at music composition.

 

No name:

"It's either you or me
There will be one death
Or two
Which will it be.

Kill yourself.
Or kill the thought of killing yourself.
Either way is fine
Either way is fine
You will cease to exist."

 

Mental Suicide:

"Commit suicide
In order to survive 

Kill your --- self 
If you want to live

The suicidal person you are 
Needs to be killed
Or it will take you with it"

Edited February 8, 2016 by Simon Zackrisson

[Ben]

I once read that if you were to 100% realise that one day you're going to die, you would instantly become enlightened. Could the only reason we have ego's ultimately be because we're trying to ignore the fact of our death?

[kyleplarson]

Hello there brother!

while i think this is a strange thought, i can say that i have had similar thoughts in the past. my input would be that death would not be an alternative means or a short cut to "enlightenment." life is an integral part of enlightenment. My friend! You are it! YOU ARE ENLIGHTENMENT. This is what jesus meant by being a city on a hill that cannot be hidden. we often try to hide this truth from ourselves and it is always this we "wake up" to.  hope this helped somehow! good luck.

[Galyna]

On 2/7/2016 at 3:52 AM, charlie cho said:

I believe actual suicide does kind of co relate. in terms of Eckhart tolle. The ego couldn't take it so it killed the mind form by himself. Where other most people who actually do suicide..... wants to protect their mind form.... so they kill the real body instead in order to protect the mind form (thoughts). the most scariest thing is... thoughts are left. Suicide is actually, I think, is the success of the ego.

How can we prove that thoughts are left after death? It seems more like a story to me. 

[so here we are]

say you dropped dead right now. but then suddenly woke up and you could see everything again. would you still feel the same. sentiment and gratitude

 

 

 

[charlie cho]

 I am guessing that that the mind form existing after death happens.... Is what the Christians and the Buddhists had called eternal hell... Eternal attachment to your mind form. And you become a phantom living in false hood even after you die. 

"I really don't know shit about enlightenment... Im just thinking"

[Simon Zackrisson]

3 hours ago, Galyna said:

How can we prove that thoughts are left after death? It seems more like a story to me. 

I definitely think it's unlikely that thoughts would be left.

But I don't think death is eternal ending, I mean for sure it COULD be, but I think it's more logical that it isn't.

My logical reasoning has always been: If I have 1 time become something from nothing, and then when the time comes to return to nothing, why shouldn't it be possible to become something again, since this phenomena has already happened before.

[Dhana Choko]

5 hours ago, Simon Zackrisson said:

I definitely think it's unlikely that thoughts would be left.

It depends on if you believe that thoughts come from this body. If you believe that thoughts come from brains, then I guess you would assume that no thoughts are left when this body dies. However, if you believe that thoughts come from somewhere else, it would be logical to say that thoughts stay even if the body dies.

[Simon Zackrisson]

1 hour ago, Dhana Choko said:

It depends on if you believe that thoughts come from this body. If you believe that thoughts come from brains, then I guess you would assume that no thoughts are left when this body dies. However, if you believe that thoughts come from somewhere else, it would be logical to say that thoughts stay even if the body dies.

You're right.

There's actually no proof that the brain is the source for the appearing thoughts.

But this is currently the model to which I'm estimating has the highest possibility of being accurate.

[MarkusSweden]

On 2016-02-06 at 0:41 AM, Leo Gura said:

Interesting question.

I don't see the connection really.

You are not the body or the mind. What you really are cannot be killed, like seriously! No kidding!

It's sort of like asking, "What if I become enlightened and decide to kill my dog?"

Well, you could kill your dog. But that dog never really was you in the first place. If you think killing the body will kill the real you, then you're far from enlightenment.

Your question is only a concern from the viewpoint of the ego, because it's very mistaken about what the truth is.

From the viewpoint of truth, truth cannot be killed.

So killing my body wouldn't in any way affect my enlightenment? 

Is it really that radical? 

I mean, it's cool if it is. But it's super-radical if it's literary true. 

Is it? 

[krazzer]

You are everything. You are every possible version of yourself, of everyone else, and of all creatures that you don't know that exist, and even the ones that you cannot even imagine. All at the same time. You are beyond death.

Death, and your whole life, has as much significance as a single breadcrumb.