Shunyamurti and Bentinho Massaro - Cult leaders?

[StudentX]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I could go murder someone tomorrow. And it would not diminish my realizations of God one bit. Might even enhance it.

Wtf is that even supposed to mean?

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I have always told you that awakening says nothing about what actions you take or how "good" you are.

Yes, it certainly does. These realizations don't leave your interaction with the world unaltered, they change them in a profound way - hell, you even made a video on morality, literally explaining how becoming a more moral person is becoming more godlike (or the other way round). 

Yes, only because you realized something profound about reality doesn't mean that you suddenly become a saint - but the more you actually awake to your true nature, the more of a "good" person you become, not in a pretentious, saintly, finger-wagging way, but sincerely, authenticly good, with love and good intentions in your heart. Everything else is what is called here "zen devilry".

[lostingenosmaze]

1 hour ago, StudentX said:

Yes, only because you realized something profound about reality doesn't mean that you suddenly become a saint - but the more you actually awake to your true nature, the more of a "good" person you become, not in a pretentious, saintly, finger-wagging way, but sincerely, authenticly good, with love and good intentions in your heart.

And what if your true nature, with all the love and good intentions in your heart, is to murder someone tomorrow? ☝️

[puporing]

1 hour ago, StudentX said:

Wtf is that even supposed to mean?

Yes, it certainly does. These realizations don't leave your interaction with the world unaltered, they change them in a profound way - hell, you even made a video on morality, literally explaining how becoming a more moral person is becoming more godlike (or the other way round). 

Yes, only because you realized something profound about reality doesn't mean that you suddenly become a saint - but the more you actually awake to your true nature, the more of a "good" person you become, not in a pretentious, saintly, finger-wagging way, but sincerely, authenticly good, with love and good intentions in your heart. Everything else is what is called here "zen devilry".

Morality becomes a choice because it's constructed. From the absolute perspective, there is no 'morality' as we think of. But when you realize you are everything and everything is you, why would you actively 'harm' yourself  knowingly? God gives you the freedom to be what you want to be/create right now and loves you for just being, otherwise it would not be absolute love. You do not have to be any way. But you get to choose. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by puporing

[Gesundheit2]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I have always told you that awakening says nothing about what actions you take or how "good" you are.

I could go murder someone tomorrow. And it would not diminish my realizations of God one bit. Might even enhance it.

I think what you're referring to here is the masculine side of realization. Most of Buddhism seems to point to the feminine side. I think both sides are important and need integration in order to produce a healthy person with healthy relationships with the world. As of this thread, these awake teachers seem to lack integration of the feminine side, which you seem to be doing a lot better at while struggling a little bit with it.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Prakhar]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is actually some solid proof, which we have looked at and discussed in the past.

They basically exploit their biggest followers either financially or sexually, or both.

I don't think we have any proof. Both parties say that the other party is lying. I think it's important that we separate what we hear from what we know.

[puporing]

Just look at the price tags alone tells you alot. I don’t know too much about Shunya’s case tho.

Same is true with psychologists. Tends to be the more conscious ones who charge less/sliding scale.

Edited April 11, 2022 by puporing

[axiom]

12 hours ago, Vincent S said:

 

It appears that Ralson somehow believes in free will at the relative level. I don't see enlightenment there.

[Vincent S]

7 minutes ago, axiom said:

It appears that Ralson somehow believes in free will at the relative level. I don't see enlightenment there.

Of course, thats how he is keeping himself finite. 
To be able to “exist” “here”,  you would have to be selfish, have “free will” to construct your identity, ego, reference point. 
This is how we “all” keep ourselves in this game. “A little salt in the stew” as Alan Watts would put it. “But don’t overdo it”

Edited April 11, 2022 by Vincent S

[Leo Gura]

Ralston denies will. I asked him about it directly in private. His answer was simply: There isn't any.

[Greatnestwithin]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Ralston denies will. I asked him about it directly in private. His answer was simply: There isn't any.

But from your understanding there is infinite will. Would you say is the same as no will at all? Or Ralston has yet more to grasp. I wonder if he continues hardcover contemplation of it's own

[Arthogaan]

From my biased perspective Bentinho does not want to create cult dynamic and the recent past accusations are misinterpretations of his pure intention. But maybe he is a cult leader. From my pov he is not.

[Merkabah]

Just the fact that the debate over " free will" still exists baffles me to no end. Guys, You are simply watching a movie playing out from the vantage point of one of the actors IN THE MOVIE. And the movie is being replayed. You cannot ACT, THINK, FEEL anything outside the "script"............ 

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Greatnestwithin said:

But from your understanding there is infinite will. Would you say is the same as no will at all? Or Ralston has yet more to grasp. I wonder if he continues hardcover contemplation of it's own

Infinite Will is very similiar to no will in that you don't have a choice about it, it's absolute.

But still, to realize Infinite Will is a huge realization. I don't think he's realized it.

Will is the mechanism by which God manifests material reality. Just don't fall into the silly idea that you are going to be manipulating that with your human will.

[Tanz]

8 hours ago, Arthogaan said:

From my biased perspective, Bentinho does not want to create cult dynamic and the recent past accusations are misinterpretations of his pure intention. But maybe he is a cult leader. From my pov he is not.

Its hard to know what his intention is but the default of becoming an idol is the people that greatly admire them are cult-like.  We see this happen in sports to a lesser degree, such as a figure like Michael Jordon.  

We see it happening with Elon Musk, among living people today, Musk is probably indirectly created the largest cult in the world if you take out a religious figure like Jesus.  He's become the richest man in the world selling 936,222 Tesla's in 2021.  Of course, that is a simplification because he made money in many other things but for the most part, the stock market is speculation and most of his money is from the printed money from the Fed. Just for context, Mercades sold  2,427,686, and Toyota sold 10,495,548!  Both companies are worth less than Tesla lol

Bentinho is a good teacher and most of what he says I agree with but I suppose when thinking about the word cult, I would personally define it as when the extreme idolization of an individual happens to the extent that their followers will never be able to discover their own greatness.  Even someone like Sadhguru whom I admire is also guilty of this.  

 

[puporing]

3 minutes ago, Tanz said:

the extreme idolization of an individual happens to the extent that their followers will never be able to discover their own greatness.

+1. ?