Joe Rogan SUPPORTS ‘Don’t say gay’ bill

[Danioover9000]

@Knowledge Hoarder

4 hours ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

I'm not sure to be honest. I'd say, since we are still living, in some ways, in a sexually repressed society, it's better to educate people as soon as possible, rather than keeping them ignorant, or letting Internet raise the young generation. However, maybe it's better to wait untill they hit puberty - around 12/13 years of age, simply because these information start being more relevant at that age.

   I agree and feel similar in regards to your view. I also feel like I don't know and uncertain with such a policy and applying it unilaterally, across states and countries and cultures because it absolutely depends on the stage, cognitiv, moral, collective being and shared livelihoods of the population, it's demographic, psychographic, history, narratives and political ideology of each culture. Places like in stage purple/red/blue societies lkke in the middle east and Russia, will be in favor of this bill, but places like Scandinavia and the UK will be in opposition to sucb a bill, due to other developments in each place.

[zurew]

2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   I agree and feel similar in regards to your view. I also feel like I don't know and uncertain with such a policy and applying it unilaterally, across states and countries and cultures because it absolutely depends on the stage, cognitiv, moral, collective being and shared livelihoods of the population, it's demographic, psychographic, history, narratives and political ideology of each culture. Places like in stage purple/red/blue societies lkke in the middle east and Russia, will be in favor of this bill, but places like Scandinavia and the UK will be in opposition to sucb a bill, due to other developments in each place.

So do you think overall educating kids around 12 13 years old about sexuality and attraction and about gayness and about transness is good?

Can you think of any exact example where this could be negative on any culture?

[Danioover9000]

   And it's not like I don't have skin in the game, or rubber meets the word or whatever the hell the analogy is for having relevant and personal experiences. I'm partly gay or bisexual, and in my mother's side I have a gay uncle whose married to another man, so it's not like I'm purely abstract and philosophical in my talking. In the various schools I've gone to, primary to elementary in the UK, middle to high school in the USA at the Washington DC area, and high school to college in Quebec, Montreal, I've seen bullying that is sometimes related to gayness, fatness, shyness, and meekness and those who behaved in a weird way,  and a few times am unlucky in this department. I'm not in favor of the bill, but I won't force a culture or society that's not ready to teach different sexualities to teach them, especially dealing with children to adolescents who are, typically in ego development, are impulsive and sometimes manipulative. How do you teach such a material to those who are rash and exhibit a bit of stage red values to stave blue values? How do you teach without being perceived as creepy in your behaviour? That's tricky.

[zurew]

17 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

I'm not in favor of the bill, but I won't force a culture or society that's not ready to teach different sexualities to teach them, especially dealing with children to adolescents who are, typically in ego development, are impulsive and sometimes manipulative.

Their parents are impulsive and their parents are the ones, who are having stage red and blue values, however a young kid can be educated and we can help those kids to be less likely to be homophobic or transphobic when they become an adult.

Their parents wouldn't like the idea, however it would be a net benefit for society overall if we are talking about the big picture and the next generations. 

If the education part won't be done, then more generations will be brought up who will more likely to become transphobe or homophobe. But thats just my opionion.

 

Your question about how we should teach this to certain cultures is valid though. Thats a tough question, but in some kind of way it must be done imo. But maybe you are right about that it can have a negative impact on them, but i can't see the exact negative impact right now.

Edited April 12, 2022 by zurew

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

I actually dont really see how the claim that consciousness inversely correlates with crime stands. Given that crime is culturally relative.

Crime isn't merely culturally relative, crime correlates with selfishness, low consciousness, and mental dysfunction and illness.

And not all crime is the same. There is big difference between the crime of smoking some weed vs raping someone. A decent mind will not enjoy raping someone.

[IAmReallyImportant]

On 09/04/2022 at 10:48 PM, How to be wise said:

I’m confused as to why some people believe he is at stage Yellow.

 

You can't judge the level of "development" using simple arguments in a conversation.

Moreover, developmental models are bs and work only in a very limited way. If at all.

[Hardkill]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Crime isn't merely culturally relative, crime correlates with selfishness, low consciousness, and mental dysfunction and illness.

And not all crime is the same. There is big difference between the crime of smoking some weed vs raping someone. A decent mind will not enjoy raping someone.

What about liberals or progressive rebels or rule breakers in history who have been jailed or criminalized to varying degrees because they fought hard for a good cause? Would you consider them criminals with a very high level of consciousness?

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

What about liberals or progressive rebels or rule breakers in history who have been jailed or criminalized to varying degrees because they fought hard for a good cause? Would you consider them criminals with a very high level of consciousness?

As I said, not all crime is the same. Breaking unjust laws is actually in alignment with higher consciousness and morality.

A law is only valid and conscious if it's a conscious law.

A law banning rape is a conscious law.

A law banning weed is an unconscious law.

Humans write bad and ignorant laws. But pedophilia is not one of them because pedophilia causes serious harm to children so it must be policed.

[Hardkill]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

As I said, not all crime is the same. Breaking unjust laws is actually in alignment with higher consciousness and morality.

A law is only valid and conscious if it's a conscious law.

A law banning rape is a conscious law.

A law banning weed is an unconscious law.

Humans write bad and ignorant laws. But pedophilia is not one of them because pedophilia causes serious harm to children so it must be policed.

Makes sense.

[Danioover9000]

@IAmReallyImportant

1 hour ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

You can't judge the level of "development" using simple arguments in a conversation.

Moreover, developmental models are bs and work only in a very limited way. If at all.

   This is partly true, given that the source video of the OP is a video about clips of public figures saying stuff about the no gay teaching bill.

   However, it's absolutely wrong to say that psychological developmental modals like Spiral dynamics, Integral Theory, Ego Development and Carl Jung's Collective shadows modal is bullshit. They do have a wide variety of ways of application, you just need to think bigger and more creatively to make those modals work!

[Danioover9000]

@zurew

4 hours ago, zurew said:

So do you think overall educating kids around 12 13 years old about sexuality and attraction and about gayness and about transness is good?

Can you think of any exact example where this could be negative on any culture?

   A few places like the Middle east, with very strict traditional hierarchies and a few more.

[Danioover9000]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Crime isn't merely culturally relative, crime correlates with selfishness, low consciousness, and mental dysfunction and illness.

And not all crime is the same. There is big difference between the crime of smoking some weed vs raping someone. A decent mind will not enjoy raping someone.

   Wait, I thought other minds don't exist?

[vizual]

41 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

 

 However, it's absolutely wrong to say that psychological developmental modals like Spiral dynamics, Integral Theory, Ego Development and Carl Jung's Collective shadows modal is bullshit. They do have a wide variety of ways of application, you just need to think bigger and more creatively to make those modals work!

The only way i see SD applied on this forum is by people stroking their egopenis how advanced they are compared to everyone else, and by kicking down everyone who’s beneath them. Yeah, that kind of behavior is a good sign of advanced mature development  

[Danioover9000]

@vizual

5 minutes ago, vizual said:

The only way i see SD applied on this forum is by people stroking their egopenis how advanced they are compared to everyone else, and by kicking down everyone who’s beneath them. Yeah, that kind of behavior is a good sign of advanced mature development  

   True in the forum, but 100% wrong in the real world.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

I do not share the views of this twitter account, I simply wanted to share the video, not the tweet.

[IAmReallyImportant]

16 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@IAmReallyImportant

   This is partly true, given that the source video of the OP is a video about clips of public figures saying stuff about the no gay teaching bill.

   However, it's absolutely wrong to say that psychological developmental modals like Spiral dynamics, Integral Theory, Ego Development and Carl Jung's Collective shadows modal is bullshit. They do have a wide variety of ways of application, you just need to think bigger and more creatively to make those modals work!

Its completly true.

[bejapuskas]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Crime isn't merely culturally relative, crime correlates with selfishness, low consciousness, and mental dysfunction and illness.

And not all crime is the same. There is big difference between the crime of smoking some weed vs raping someone. A decent mind will not enjoy raping someone.

@zurew Unfortunately sometimes the scientific people however only trust the kind of scientific information that confirms their view.

@Leo Gura  Maybe we misunderstand each other. I am not saying that rape is culturally relative, be it rape of a kid or a rape of an adult.

I was more so talking about the unjust laws. I was talking about law as it is, crime as it is defined differently in different cultures, not consciousness or morality or selflessness, legal stuff.

And I still believe that attraction to kids not always leads to rape, just like attraction to people of your age does not always lead to it, although sometimes it does.

18 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@zurew

   A few places like the Middle east, with very strict traditional hierarchies and a few more.

@Danioover9000  I would be careful with saying it is negative in such places. There are gay people in Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tanzania, North Korea... All these places. It would benefit the people to teach it, because they are there. It is not negative in that sense.

Maybe you did mean this, but I believe it is more dangerous rather than negative. Fighting for rights is always good, but it can put people into danger. So thats why I dont like the word negative and would rather use dangerous, because I dont wanna assume that countries with less progressive governments dont have gay people.

And actually, in many places, as Somebody already mentioned, the horrible state of consciousness can be caused by the "developed colonizers" who robbed the native people of their superior wisdom of the past and enforced their values. Be careful what you believe.

[zurew]

10 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

Unfortunately sometimes the scientific people however only trust the kind of scientific information that confirms their view.

Yes thats true.

But i want to believe that there are some conservatives out there ,that are openminded enough to change their views on things, when they get the sufficient amount of evidence.

[Danioover9000]

@bejapuskas

25 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

@zurew Unfortunately sometimes the scientific people however only trust the kind of scientific information that confirms their view.

@Leo Gura  Maybe we misunderstand each other. I am not saying that rape is culturally relative, be it rape of a kid or a rape of an adult.

I was more so talking about the unjust laws. I was talking about law as it is, crime as it is defined differently in different cultures, not consciousness or morality or selflessness, legal stuff.

And I still believe that attraction to kids not always leads to rape, just like attraction to people of your age does not always lead to it, although sometimes it does.

@Danioover9000  I would be careful with saying it is negative in such places. There are gay people in Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tanzania, North Korea... All these places. It would benefit the people to teach it, because they are there. It is not negative in that sense.

Maybe you did mean this, but I believe it is more dangerous rather than negative. Fighting for rights is always good, but it can put people into danger. So thats why I dont like the word negative and would rather use dangerous, because I dont wanna assume that countries with less progressive governments dont have gay people.

And actually, in many places, as Somebody already mentioned, the horrible state of consciousness can be caused by the "developed colonizers" who robbed the native people of their superior wisdom of the past and enforced their values. Be careful what you believe.

   What? I was giving a user who asked me to provide a negative example of many more examples of what is being asked. I'm not out right denying that LGBTQ people don't exist in such places, but that they must hide who they are in such places that still are authoritarian regimes that rule those places, and more less developed regions with less developed government that'll punish people with such sex orientations to preserve whatever stage blue/red values and morals of that society. If you want to debate me or have a heated discussion about this issue, I'm not interested, take it up with the user who asked me instead.

[Danioover9000]

@zurew

21 minutes ago, zurew said:

Yes thats true.

But i want to believe that there are some conservatives out there ,that are openminded enough to change their views on things, when they get the sufficient amount of evidence.

   I'm one of those conservatives that is open minded. You are right a few do exist. However I think I'm done with interacting with you, so take care.