Joe Rogan SUPPORTS ‘Don’t say gay’ bill

[zurew]

17 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Leo Gura What do you think of what Osho wrote?

He said homosexuals will have to develop to heterosexuals to maximize their spiritual growth.

I don't think you can willingly change what sex you are attracted to.

Also i want to add here, just because someone is enlightened it doesn't mean that they can't say wrong things, and also it doesn't mean that we need to take their word for granted.

Edited April 11, 2022 by zurew

[Razard86]

13 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Less developed individuals are indeed more likely to commit crime. Although you did say on one of your vids that it’s certainly not impossible for a being of high consciousness to commit crime. Didn’t Osho commit a number of crimes even though he was at solid stage Turquoise?

There was never any evidence he committed any crimes. He did have a Lady who was his assistant who was convicted of poisoning a water supply. He was the one who called the Authorities on her and provided all the evidence and opened up his residence to investigation. They never found any evidence of wrong doing on his part but they deported him anyway.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Razard86

[Husseinisdoingfine]

19 hours ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

Remembers me of that one time in 5th grade where I brought home some sex-ed homework which triggered the hell out my mother. She was like: "How can they teach this kind of stuff to children?! That's so messed up!" which is interesting because she was barely 19 when she got me which is waay to young to have a child imo. She was probably very ignorant as a result of not receiving the kind of sex-ed (which wasn't even that much to be honest) that I got. Her life might have been better if she hadn't gotten a child this early on. Sex ed MIGHT (who knows) have increased the general quality of her life.

A CHILD AT 19!?!?!?

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Osho was a really wacky figure.

Despite being this enlightened Guru, he commuted so many crimes (immigration fraud, voting fraud, attempted assassinations, any many more). He even told his followers that the ability to commit crimes was a sign of being free, despite condemning all Politicians as being criminals.

He was also a hedonist, Ma Anand Sheela would organize women to sleep with Osho, how did his followers not see through this? She organized like a row of Women and Osho would sleep with three a night. He was also a drug user, and quite the dancer.

Isn’t this anti spiritual? I thought there was not difference between pain and pleasure, and that these were “lower base/chakra” cravings?

This makes me doubt that Osho was awake, at a high level at least.

[Hardkill]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I was speaking in broad generalizations.

Yeah, I knew that.

[Raptorsin7]

@zurew I think he's talking about as you evolve spirituality you will transcend it.

I knew a guy on the forum who said he went through a phase of intense attraction to a guy, and when he went deep into that feeling of same sex attraction it dissolved 

[zurew]

19 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I knew a guy on the forum who said he went through a phase of intense attraction to a guy, and when he went deep into that feeling of same sex attraction it dissolved 

Interesting, i haven't seen or heard anything like that before.

Sexual attraction seems very deeply rooted to me, but i don't exactly know where the root is at and the science is pretty young on this area.

If i had to guess, i would say that sexual attraction is a combination of social and biological factors. I would put a lot more weight on the biological factor though.

But ultimately, i don't really know. 

19 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

 I think he's talking about as you evolve spirituality you will transcend it.

Transcending gayness, or transcending sexual attraction?

I don't think we can ever totally transcend our basic needs like food and sex.

Edited April 11, 2022 by zurew

[BuddhistLover]

There really is a lot of fun debate and banter to read here. Not saying it's we gained a lot of truth from this, but definitely new ideas and perspectives.

[Raptorsin7]

@zurew Transcending your identification as a gay man/woman.

I don't know for certain, but what Osho sais seems closer to the truth than the PC answers you typically see.

 

[BuddhistLover]

@Raptorsin7 I'm sorry but I don't think that's accurate information. If you like girls, you like girls, If you like guys, you like guys. Just talk to a gay man in person, you'll that they can't stop staring at guys who walk by. They can't help themselves, they just are that way. It's genetics, it's biology, that's the way their bodies are constructed. I'm sorry, but what Osho says is incorrect to the Truth. 

[Raptorsin7]

@BuddhistLover Its not just genetics. That is an oversimplification.

See what I wrote above about the possibility to dissolve same sex attraction

[BuddhistLover]

@Raptorsin7 That's really cool dude, thank you for sharing. I see what you mean that it's a possibility, but like. But like, my question for you is? Is it on the spiritual path that people evolve past both same sex and opposite sex attraction? Because if it's just same sex, I just don't feel like that's fair to people.

[Raptorsin7]

@BuddhistLover I think ultimately you will evolve past all forms of sexuality. But I think it's an upward development. So if you identify as gay, then I would predict if you kept evolving you would eventually transcend that identity.

The thing is I've ever seen a genuine gay spirtual teacher, but I've seen heterosexual married spirtual teachers. 

If I met someone I considered a genuine teacher who fully identified as gay that would shatter my argument 

[aurum]

11 hours ago, Yog said:

Its also a tricky thing to distinguish what is a clear transmission and what is influenced by the channeler, having done a bit of channeling myself, I find it hard to distinguish even in my 1st person experience, sometimes I will get a message " step aside, step aside"

Yeah I’ve found the same.

Obviously a good channel by definition is able to “get out of the way”. But in my experience it’s never 100%. Even to use a specific language already implies a certain distortion from the original vibrations.

The way I’ve heard it described, it’s more like a third entity is created. Which is mix of the channel and that which is being channeled. 

11 hours ago, Yog said:

According to Ra, urban environments tend serve  more like a trigger and less like a cause because of aura overlap and cross-influence. Something that I can in a way vouch more for here, at least for the general concept.

I wouldn’t doubt that our urban environments are not the healthiest. Surely they affect us in a myriad of ways, some perhaps unconscious to us.

But it seems a stretch to me to suggest they are a catalyst for homosexuality.

If there is a link, I’m not seeing it. 

[Danioover9000]

   I see it didn't take long for this thread to derail. 

 

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Knowledge Hoarder said:

There's not many spiritual teachers to begin with - amongst (and compared to) the vast number of world straight population, there's really only a handfull. Gay population is also ,most likely, reasonably small - even though most gay people worldwide are still in the closet, so it's hard to estimate the number. But, I'd say, it has to be MAX 5% of world's population.

Maybe the reason why you haven't seen gay spiritual teachers yet, is because the population is fairly small - real, non gymicky spirituality is not really mainstream, thus they have no way of finding out about it. And most of them are still hiding their identity still 

Yeah that's a possible explanation 

[bejapuskas]

Not teaching kids about gender and sexuality can lead to catastrophic consequences. 

For example, a menstruating person lives in a household where non-menstruating are included in conversations about these types of issues and they get as educated as them. When the menstruating person reaches puberty and start menstruating, they are not afraid to tell people in their family. They are not afraid to ask about healthy choices etc.

On the other hand, some other person lives in a country where menstruation is taboo and the parents always lie to their kids, saying menstrual products in ads are diappers. (This is quite common) When this person starts menstruating, they feel afraid, they might hide their blood and become sick as a result.

Same goes for gender and sexuality. This affects everyone, as I believe everyone has at least one thing connnected to their perceived gender/sexuality identity that they dislike and want to question. However, questioning is quite difficult without proper education. When we talk about educating kids, we are really talking about freedom and being the creators of our lives.

At this point in time, gay people have less STDs than straight people, probably because there has been increased awareness through the epidemic caused by lack of education and homophobia. On the other hand, straight people drown in their entitlement that they are better than the gay and the cost of their homophobia is sometimes unfortunately the HIV virus. The answer is to educate ourselves more, not to hide the issues.

This can be applied to other forms of questioning. Maybe a trans person who would otherwise not want surgery is pressured by society to get it, because they think only certain body types can help them express who they are. (This doesnt mean surgery is bad, but there exists pressure and a certain norm thats harmful) They then regret making the decision to undergo it when it may be too late.

Or maybe an asexual boy doesnt feel sexually attracted to people and also does not desire sex, but he feels obliged to like it because of Incel movement and peer pressure. He then gets laid and feels like he has just been raped because of lack of education about different types of identities.

Queerness is not disgusting. It is not unnecessarily complex. It is not to be ignored. Hetero means different. Why dont we see heterosexuals as the queer people who are too complex then? As the "Other" in society? I am sure many of us here are tired of constantly kissing the feet of homophobic, transphobic, aphobic and other types of repressed stage Blue people every single day.

[bejapuskas]

I actually dont really see how the claim that consciousness inversely correlates with crime stands. Given that crime is culturally relative. If you think using some psychedelics is a crime, which it is in many countries, then all these youtubers and all are criminals, despite being perceived as high consciousness. Secondly, if we assume there are so little "solid turquoise people" yet we can easily name quite a few of which have kinda sus traits or history, how does that even add up? Perhaps crime is just really common, or perhaps these enlightened people are mostly just bullshitters.

I also think that being a pedophile, meaning a person who is attracted to kids, who does not offend who is anti-homophobic is a much better thing to be than a "normal" "sexually healthy" person who dehumanizes minorities and "protects kids" by letting adults check for their genitals upon entering bathrooms. I actually have zero respect for the second person, while I think being a pedophile and not being able to have a relationship with a person of your age or suffering from pedophilia OCD, whichever it is, or even both, is nothing wrong, compared to all these disgusting policies. Thinking something bad but not acting on it is not bad in itself.

[Preety_India]

8 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

also think that being a pedophile, meaning a person who is attracted to kids, who does not offend who is anti-homophobic is a much better thing to be than a "normal" "sexually healthy" person who dehumanizes minorities and "protects kids" by letting adults check for their genitals upon entering bathrooms

How can a pedophile be a better person ?

 

[Michael Jackson]

45 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

Not teaching kids about gender and sexuality can lead to catastrophic consequences. 

For example, a menstruating person lives in a household where non-menstruating are included in conversations about these types of issues and they get as educated as them. When the menstruating person reaches puberty and start menstruating, they are not afraid to tell people in their family. They are not afraid to ask about healthy choices etc.

On the other hand, some other person lives in a country where menstruation is taboo and the parents always lie to their kids, saying menstrual products in ads are diappers. (This is quite common) When this person starts menstruating, they feel afraid, they might hide their blood and become sick as a result.

Same goes for gender and sexuality. This affects everyone, as I believe everyone has at least one thing connnected to their perceived gender/sexuality identity that they dislike and want to question. However, questioning is quite difficult without proper education. When we talk about educating kids, we are really talking about freedom and being the creators of our lives.

At this point in time, gay people have less STDs than straight people, probably because there has been increased awareness through the epidemic caused by lack of education and homophobia. On the other hand, straight people drown in their entitlement that they are better than the gay and the cost of their homophobia is sometimes unfortunately the HIV virus. The answer is to educate ourselves more, not to hide the issues.

This can be applied to other forms of questioning. Maybe a trans person who would otherwise not want surgery is pressured by society to get it, because they think only certain body types can help them express who they are. (This doesnt mean surgery is bad, but there exists pressure and a certain norm thats harmful) They then regret making the decision to undergo it when it may be too late.

Or maybe an asexual boy doesnt feel sexually attracted to people and also does not desire sex, but he feels obliged to like it because of Incel movement and peer pressure. He then gets laid and feels like he has just been raped because of lack of education about different types of identities.

Queerness is not disgusting. It is not unnecessarily complex. It is not to be ignored. Hetero means different. Why dont we see heterosexuals as the queer people who are too complex then? As the "Other" in society? I am sure many of us here are tired of constantly kissing the feet of homophobic, transphobic, aphobic and other types of repressed stage Blue people every single day.

I agree.