Joe Rogan SUPPORTS ‘Don’t say gay’ bill

[Danioover9000]

@Hardkill

3 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

What if all sex education got banned by the right wing?

   I don't know, more context is needed to determine if the ban was good or bad. An example of this is if the ban was a prohibition style, and wanting to revert the education system into a more traditional religious fundamentalist system. In sucb a system to unilaterally impose bans of safe  sex education and sexuality would likely lead to nation wide sex repression and suppression, which can lead to unhealthy catharsis. On the other end, we also don't want to show too openly and too much either, in a reckless way that could lead to more perverted people later in life. Ultimately, we don't want to normalize behaviours that are hentai like in the education system, which is the deep fear of traditionalists and conservatives in the right, without suppressing sexuality that the left also fears, but we also want to normalize conversations and teachings in education settings, which is already a visceral problem for some who are parents to even think about and probably for some adults who care for children's wellbeing. We also have to accept that no matter what solution we propose and provide, we cannot make everyone happy with it. 

   Who knows the full consequences really? Maybe this could cure the Incel red/blue/blackc pill problem that a growing number of young men are experiencing, because they received more sexual education at high school, and know theoretically how to fuck properly in college, and got sexual techniques and laid early to not make a big deal of it in university. But do you see what level society has to be to handle this delicate problem?

[BuddhistLover]

@Leo Gura Yeah Leo, I feel like you're right about Joe Rogan, he's not actually a super intelligent or caring person. He doesn't even understand stuff like Economics, emotional intelligence, physics, mathematics, or anything along those lines. For God's sake, he was a UFC fighter who beat the shit out of people. The only reason he has that big following is because he's a masterful attention seeker because of his jokes. I wouldn't ever put any stock into a person who used to beat the shit out of human beings for a living. That's red flags all over it. I feel like people just buy into his sensation too easily without thinking.

[DnoReally]

You don't get it guys, That 3rd grader really needs to know that I take it up the ass.

I really can't imagine teaching any other way.

[pedro23]

3 hours ago, DnoReally said:

I take it up the ass.

I thought you were more into armpits. 

[vizual]

People on this forum make the same mistake that normies make—which people think they stand above—they think that woke values are  somehow enlightened and spiritually advanced. What they don’t understand is that social liberalism is just an ideology, just like neoconservatism is an ideology. And no ideology is ever perfect and applicable to any problem. Reality is too smart to be caught in a single way of thinking. That doesn’t mean that ideologies aren’t useful to orient your thinking around. But they have to be used to make a reasonable and  logical decision. Not to turn off your critical thinking and follow everything your ideology tells you to think.

[Danioover9000]

@BuddhistLover

10 hours ago, BuddhistLover said:

@Leo Gura Yeah Leo, I feel like you're right about Joe Rogan, he's not actually a super intelligent or caring person. He doesn't even understand stuff like Economics, emotional intelligence, physics, mathematics, or anything along those lines. For God's sake, he was a UFC fighter who beat the shit out of people. The only reason he has that big following is because he's a masterful attention seeker because of his jokes. I wouldn't ever put any stock into a person who used to beat the shit out of human beings for a living. That's red flags all over it. I feel like people just buy into his sensation too easily without thinking.

   This what I mean about being judgmental and dogmatic, and not about making distinctions. As long as people keep behaving similarly we will be making slow progress societally speaking.

   Keep in mind Leo used to follow Peter Ralston, who was a really good fighter in the past. 

[Danioover9000]

@thisintegrated

12 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

His opinion is perfectly normal.

 

And btw he's stage Green.

   He's mostly stage green, with open mindedness enough that gives him that stage yellow aspect, but he's not perfect in his ego development as he does have shadows of past stages to still work through.

[JTL]

@Leo Gura I have not read it, what would say make the bill homophobic?

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, Hardkill said:

What if all sex education got banned by the right wing?

That's exactly their dream. They have been trying to do that for decades.

38 minutes ago, JTL said:

@Leo Gura I have not read it, what would say make the bill homophobic?

Because there is no need for such a bill. No teachers are grooming kids to be gay. That's not a thing. The right-wing just wants to brainwash kids with the old-school hetero-normative worldview. This bill is just gaslighting.

It's obviously just a pawn in their culture war.

Now if a Florida teacher tells his 1st grade class that he and his husband went on vacation together, that will be considered "grooming" and he will be sued. But if a straight teachers says he and his wife went on vacation together, there won't be a problem. So it's a bill designed to discriminate against gays and trans, cloaked as "saving the children".

Kids are exposed to hetero-normative talk and images from the moment they are born. So this idea that kids are not groomed into heterosexuality is absurd. They are. When a kid listens to a story about Snow White or the like, that is already hetero-normative grooming. So what the right-wing wants is hetero-normative grooming to have a monopoly on kids' minds for as long as possible. That is the purpose of this bill. So then when kids finally learn about homosexuality or trans gender stuff, they will see it as deviant, weird, abnormal, and wrong.

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's exactly their dream. They have been trying to do that for decades.

Because there is no need for such a bill. No teachers are grooming kids to be gay. That's not a thing. The right-wing just wants to brainwash kids with the old-school hetero-normative worldview. This bill is just gaslighting.

It's obviously just a pawn in their culture war.

Now if a Florida teacher tells his 1st grade class that he and his husband went on vacation together, that will be considered "grooming" and he will be sued. But if a straight teachers says he and his wife went on vacation together, there won't be a problem. So it's a bill designed to discriminate against gays and trans, cloaked as an "saving the children".

This bill is necessary. Why should kids have to know about gender and sex? We don't tell kids about male and female either. It's something they learn on their own. Obviously as they mature into teenage, they will be exposed to the knowledge of gender and sexuality. So the bill makes sense? 

 

[Leo Gura]

34 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Why should kids have to know about gender and sex?

Because they know about it regardless, but without proper education they will know about it in ignorant and biased ways.

Quote

We don't tell kids about male and female either.

Yes we do. It's all baked into our culture, media, images, movies, songs, games, language, religion, marketing, etc.

Quote

It's something they learn on their own.

It's something they get imprinted with from culture.

This is a culture war.

Quote

Obviously as they mature into teenage, they will be exposed to the knowledge of gender and sexuality. So the bill makes sense?

They get groomed into hetero sexual norms and morals through subtle cultural brainwashing.

- - - - - -

This bill is like passing a bill which says: Don't tell kids about black people. Let kids find out about black people on their own and draw their own conclusions.

But if the culture is racist and implicitly depicts black people in bad ways, by the time the kid grows up the conclusion he will draw is that black people are bad.

That's exactly the purpose of such a bill and why it is racist.

In a culture which depicts black people as lazy watermelon-hungry rapists, criminals, and drug dealers, to let kids draw their own conclusions is to perpetuate racism.

[Osaid]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's obviously just a pawn in their culture war.

Now if a Florida teacher tells his 1st grade class that he and his husband went on vacation together, that will be considered "grooming" and he will be sued. But if a straight teachers says he and his wife went on vacation together, there won't be a problem. So it's a bill designed to discriminate against gays and trans, cloaked as "saving the children".

Kids are exposed to hetero-normative talk and images from the moment they are born. So this idea that kids are not groomed into heterosexuality is absurd. They are. When a kid listens to a story about Snow White or the like, that is already hetero-normative grooming. So what the right-wing wants is hetero-normative grooming to have a monopoly on kids' minds for as long as possible. That is the purpose of this bill. So then when kids finally learn about homosexuality or trans gender stuff, they will see it as deviant, weird, abnormal, and wrong.

Wow, never thought of it this way

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because they know about it regardless, but without proper education they will know about it in ignorant and biased ways.

Yes we do. It's all baked into our culture, media, images, movies, songs, games, language, religion, marketing, etc.

It's something they get imprinted with from culture.

This is a culture war.

They get groomed into hetero sexual norms and morals through subtle cultural brainwashing.

I don't get you. If the bill is not passed, and if children come to know about "being gay" through media and this can cause them gender and sexuality related confusion. How would such confusion be good for kids? 

 

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I don't get you. If the bill is not passed, and if children come to know about "being gay" through media and this can cause them gender and sexuality related confusion. How would such confusion be good for kids?

Reality is confusing. That's not a bug, that's a feature. Part of growing up is grappling with many confusing aspect of life.

Yes, allowing kids to know about homosexuality and trans gender stuff will make them more confused because you are presenting them with more options.

It's like you're saying, "I shouldn't tell my child that strawberry ice cream exists because it will confuse him when picking ice cream. He's better off only knowing about vanilla. Then his life is easy."

How about giving your child some credit in being able to learn and understand and make choices?

If kids are not educated about sex they will just learn about it from their ignorant friends in 1st grade anyway. But the difference is they will pick up biases and misinformation. Some kid on the playground will teach your kid that gay sex is evil and disgusting and that God will send him to hell for it. That will get imprinted in your kid's mind. Which is exactly that right-wingers want. What right-wingers don't want is for a kid to know that gay sex is nor better or worse than normal sex, and that God does not care what kind of sex you have.

[Bobby_2021]

I remember my teenage years as already being confused enough having to accomodate for 2 genders.

Imagine growing up with n number of genders.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I remember my teenage years as already being confused enough having to accomodate for 2 genders.

Imagine growing up with n number of genders.

Imagine how confused you will be when you grow up clueless and then learn one day that gender is a category constructed by the mind?

By that point you will be so in denial about it that you will turn into a transphobe and bully trans people as a defense mechanism.

The idea that kids are traumatized by sex education is absurd. It's their parents who are traumatized. The kids have no problem with it. If kids were taught sex-ed in 1st grade it would remove a lot of ignorance and stigma around sex.

[Danioover9000]

@Preety_India

10 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

This bill is necessary. Why should kids have to know about gender and sex? We don't tell kids about male and female either. It's something they learn on their own. Obviously as they mature into teenage, they will be exposed to the knowledge of gender and sexuality. So the bill makes sense? 

 

   There are a lot of reasons why. One I think is that children don't get shocked when they find out that other gender roles and sex orientations do exist, I think this is the main one, and there are other much deeper reasons as well.

   But it all depends on which society this bill is introduced in, their stage of development, cognitive and moral development, demographics and psychographics, common personality types, states of being at the collective level, and many other life experiences and infrastructures of that society. I guess ideology, narratives, history of that country/culture, economics, mainstream marketing, technology and many more societal factors. like I've stated this bill fits well with most Scandinavian countries, other European countries, and maybe with Canada and the USA. However, there's no such thing as a bill that'll make everybody happy.

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Preety_India

   There are a lot of reasons why. One I think is that children don't get shocked when they find out that other gender roles and sex orientations do exist, I think this is the main one, and there are other much deeper reasons as well.

   But it all depends on which society this bill is introduced in, their stage of development, cognitive and moral development, demographics and psychographics, common personality types, states of being at the collective level, and many other life experiences and infrastructures of that society. I guess ideology, narratives, history of that country/culture, economics, mainstream marketing, technology and many more societal factors. like I've stated this bill fits well with most Scandinavian countries, other European countries, and maybe with Canada and the USA. However, there's no such thing as a bill that'll make everybody happy.

I didn't get you. Are you in favor of the bill being passed or are you against the bill? 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Something Funny

3 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Preety_India what's so bad about being confused for some time while you mature? Even if a person goes and sleeps withe a guy and then with a girl to understand their sexuality, what's so bad about it? The world isn't going to end. The only bad thing is that they might get judged and picked on by ignorant people.

Would you rather prefer society telling you what job you should have, like your parents saying that you can either be a doctor or a lawyer. Or would you choose getting confused for some time and then making your own decision?

   Because naturally the more confused you are, the greater the chances of putting yourself and others around you in danger, generally speaking. In this context of sexual confusion, I think it's less likely, but there's gonna be a lot of psychological stress I think.

   The only bad thing about sleeping with multiple sex partners, is that you don't exercise safe sex with them, which sex education prepares you a bit for, and other things as well. 

   A different topic aside, on some days, I sometimes like to think that if society gave me either the tools to find my own life purpose, or knew my to an accurate degree my latent potential and  or prepared me much more in getting life purpose, and I happen to have the skills and development for that purpose, it would've been so much easier. Sometimes while it's exciting to go and discover purpose, it can be stressful and give you more grey hair than a mediocre job can. It can be difficult.

[T_i_m]

If I understand correctly this is the  paragraph that all the fuss is about:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third  parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in  accordance with state standards."