"Several years to get the benefits of meditation!" ...

[lostingenosmaze]

I think you'll largely benefit from an entrepreneur's perspective on meditation.

Meditation helps your concentration and focus, Leo has also mentioned using dedicated concentration exercises to aid your meditation, but obviously that could also help you with your attention and productivity as well.

Cal Newport also has his own spin on meditation to supplement his deep workflow:

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by lostingenosmaze

[RMQualtrough]

It doesn't work for me at all.

[Consilience]

30 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

It doesn't work for me at all.

The suffering you’d experience from sitting alone, in silence, and in stillness for 2 hours is how you know the practice is working. If you don’t understand why this is the case, you need more practice. 

[GreenWoods]

@Striving for more You have the right attitude.

 

To reach your specific goals, I don't think meditation is the best practice. Meditation is good but there are more effective ones. 

I'd recommend the following:

• transmissions 
• psychedelics
• pick up
• lucid dreaming 
• magick (with Damon Brand's books)
• All day meditation: Try to remain present, mindful and conscious during as much of your day (driving, cooking, tv, work,...) as possible. Don't waste formal mediation sitting time with this.
• shadow work and contemplation and self reflection. dive into your psyche and deal with your fears and wounds.

[Striving for more]

@GreenWoods Excellent list, thank you so much. 

very intrigued by this "Transmissions" concept just skimmed through your post. 

Quote

Everyone has an energy field, an aura, and whenever you are around someone (to a small extend even when you merely think about someone) your auras overlap and affect each other. That's how you sometimes pick up emotions of other people (though you usually don't recognize this and believe they are your own emotions). 

This qoute truly hits home for me because, I had always been affected by others people's energies.  

grew up in a city and culture that I always feel is, overall energetically & psychologically bankrupt. After travelling a little , the comparison magnified to infinitum the clarity of this intuition. 

Everyone goes on about "meditation & enlightenment for happiness but for me the real way to feel good inside is to constantly be around good people, not "Good" as a moral judgement, but high vibration people, people who make you feel good by their mere presence. 

so far though throughout my life I have always had the wrong energies around me, of course I must take responsibility for this now, but thanks for this simple insight. 

I can picture how I'd design my life now in an ideal word; all friends, neighbours & sexual partners MUST be high vibration; extremely happy, positive, fun & light-hearted people ... then extrapolate that to the entire city, although u can't control for the diversity of an entire population, however I found that certain cities or maybe even countries have a much higher energetic cultural vibration than others* (I used to question this & think "How could this be, isn't there an even & similar distribution of personality types in every place?) But this probably isn't the case, I think geographical, cultural factors shape personalities but also, reverting back to "transmission", I guess culture  is like a stubborn energetic virus that doesn't just go away, it's every place there is an energy field & merely 1 person coming in will not be able to overpower the force of that field, more likely they'll get sucked into it & become like everyone else)

... *it amases me how little people talk about this, yet I have subtly been obssessed with this since I was a teenager, that's why I always saw moving country as the ultimate personal development & fulfilment move, even above life purpose or career. 

So simple but struggled my entire life to find this, I've failed to find high vibration friends or Girl for instance, and whenever I do find them on a rare occasion, I can't keep them around. Just another thing to dream about & manifest. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Striving for more

[GreenWoods]

@Striving for more If you're so energetically sensitive then transmissions might be worth a try. Gareth's live transmissions are really nice.

I think transmissions are one of the most effective ways to increase one's happiness and peace.

 

Yeah, hanging around high vibrational people makes a difference. And every city and country definitely has it's own energy, which has some impact on people's happiness and spirituality. 

And what you called "energetic virus" is usually called thought form. People's thoughts and emotions can intermingle and form into objective primitive non-physical life forms which then again affect everyone around.

[Barna]

12 hours ago, Striving for more said:

I do meditation for practical, reasons in order to improve myself. 

Leo on Overcoming Fear part 2 :

• "one way to overcome fear = to be in the present moment"" BUT ...
• "It will take you several years just to have the ability to ground yourself in the present moment"
• That's really uninspiring. I want my results in several months. 
• If I was 16 this would be fine, but because I am at a prime biological age to be a human, I don't want any more of it to go to waste. 
• I need fast results >> 3 - 6 months max. 

If I combine meditation with lots of other practices & work every day at it ... can I cut the process from "several years to months"?

I only care about the selfish results from meditation, I don't want to be jesus, just what probides higher emotional intelligence & success 

What will cut the process from several years to several months? 

(Fearless, present, calm, focused, attentive, fast learner, charimsatic, good listener, engaged & engaging, body awareness, observant, self control, mindful) 

It's not like you meditate and then you get the results of meditation. It's not like going to the gym and getting muscles as a result.

Meditation is the side effect of internally oriented curiosity. People who are curious about silence and awareness tend to sit and observe it. And other people look at them and say "they are meditating and they get all kinds of results from it". But this logic is backwards.

First, you have to be curious about your own inner field. You have to be curious enough to sit in silence and observe it every day, even learn some practices to help you to guide your attention.

And the funny thing is that while you have all this curiosity and the practice, you won't get any answers to your questions, you will just have deeper and deeper questions until you realize that you know nothing at all. And once you become comfortable with not knowing anything, fear starts to disappear. The more fear disappears, the more healthy you'll become mentally, and every other magic comes simply from mental health.

The timeline depends on you. How curious are you about your deepest self? 

[njuufa]

14 hours ago, Striving for more said:

(Fearless, present, calm, focused, attentive, fast learner, charimsatic, good listener, engaged & engaging, body awareness, observant, self control, mindful) 

These can all be reached through the practice of Mindfulness. You dont need to do the practice of meditation to reach these  

 

[Rigel]

@Haribo

A lot of thought attachement I guess(There's still a ton of it tho).

I lost a need to be right all the time, to defend my perspective and to argue about it.

I lost a need to compulsively reach for my phone.

I lost cravings for unhealthy foods.

I lost social anxiety.

I lost fatigue, laziness and lethargy.

And then some,

[Striving for more]

@njuufa I thought mindfulness was meditation? 

Do you mean mindfulness mixed in throughout the day, intentionally applying mindfulness to every thing your doing instead of "sittting for 10 minutes & watching the breath?" e.g mindful eating, being mindful as you are working. 

I just assumed that the targeted meditation practice would carry over to more mindfulness, but I guess I could just skip that part. 

[BipolarGrowth]

25 minutes ago, Striving for more said:

@njuufa I thought mindfulness was meditation? 

Do you mean mindfulness mixed in throughout the day, intentionally applying mindfulness to every thing your doing instead of "sittting for 10 minutes & watching the breath?" e.g mindful eating, being mindful as you are working. 

I just assumed that the targeted meditation practice would carry over to more mindfulness, but I guess I could just skip that part. 

You can be mindful of the breath or plenty of other things throughout the day. If you want quick results, do this 24/7. The Buddha taught that consistent mindfulness is very important and effective. People saying monks don’t get anywhere after 40 years are talking to the wrong monks or have just heard this concept from people who don’t know much about monks in the first place. Most likely, the monks who are more focused on scholarly learning of the principles rather than those who practice skillfully and consistently are the ones who don’t get much after 40 years. It took me about seven years to really get the benefits of meditation to a high degree. If you knew what those benefits are actually like, you’d know it’s a hell of a great deal that it can only take seven years. I wasn’t meditating every single day for hours though, so you can certainly speed things up to a certain degree. Probably 2 years of consistent daily practice is a minimum where you’d see anyone getting to something noteworthy. 
 

If you get really proficient at meditation, there’s a good chance you’re going to lose much of this success-focused mindset by the way. When you can get better things on your own in 10 minutes of sitting by yourself than years of chasing success externally, it’s hard to care much about external success beyond just what allows you a comfortable life as far as material things go. 
 

This video was made by a Buddhist monk who is incredibly well versed in the Dhamma and is a real practitioner who discusses the importance of consistent mindfulness (sati) throughout the day outside of your sitting meditation practice. 

 

Here’s a video from my meditation teacher who discusses the basics of the breath meditation that the Buddha taught which you’ll hardly find most people talking about. It includes some important missing pieces compared to most western meditation teachers.

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by BipolarGrowth

[Striving for more]

6 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

If you get really proficient at meditation, there’s a good chance you’re going to lose much of this success-focused mindset by the way. When you can get better things on your own in 10 minutes of sitting by yourself than years of chasing success externally, it’s hard to care much about external success beyond just what allows you a comfortable life as far as material things go. 

This does just not resonate with me. If that's a "benefit" I'd rather either not obtain that, or at least accomplish everything I wanted in life first. 

I think my life will be devoted to extreme success, I'm only happiest when I do stuff, the success doesn't have to only be financial, it could be creative or social success, but the monk life is super *** as f***, like I said I only want the practical benefits. 

I am still open to psychedelics, only for the practical & spirtitual benefits, but I will not allow it to take away my amibtion. 

Everyone is different but people who just want to sit around & not accomplish anything honestly disgust me, it's hard to even talk to them on a forum.

However I do not resonate with the Gary V types 1 bit either, and to be honest people who just want to experience "Being" via being with their friends, partying ect.. I actually do resonate with these types, I would even consider this life if I become wealthy, but the lonely "sit on my own 24/7 do nothing" life I'm not even gonna consider that it's f***** disgusting. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Striving for more

[BipolarGrowth]

@Striving for more Just letting you know that it might reduce ambition. 

[vladorion]

On 4/9/2022 at 3:58 AM, Striving for more said:

I do meditation for practical, reasons in order to improve myself. 

Leo on Overcoming Fear part 2 :

• "one way to overcome fear = to be in the present moment"" BUT ...
• "It will take you several years just to have the ability to ground yourself in the present moment"
• That's really uninspiring. I want my results in several months. 
• If I was 16 this would be fine, but because I am at a prime biological age to be a human, I don't want any more of it to go to waste. 
• I need fast results >> 3 - 6 months max. 

If I combine meditation with lots of other practices & work every day at it ... can I cut the process from "several years to months"?

I only care about the selfish results from meditation, I don't want to be jesus, just what probides higher emotional intelligence & success 

What will cut the process from several years to several months? 

(Fearless, present, calm, focused, attentive, fast learner, charimsatic, good listener, engaged & engaging, body awareness, observant, self control, mindful) 

You should probably look into therapy/healing, not meditation. 

Meditation practice is not really meant for any of those things you listed.

[JonasVE12]

Step into your fears. Don't try to go around. Using meditation to get over your fears is just another way to avoid your fears. Becoming a strong, calm, grounded and confident presence, internally and externally, requires you to deal with the tension you fear stepping into until you learn to embody higher states of feeling as a consequence of an inner shift in relationship to the tension you put your body in. Most people are dealing with it reactively. Even trying to avoid stepping into it, thinking meditation will solve it is reactive. Your nervous system has to adapt WHILE you are in the situation you fear. There is no other faster way. I tried so much stuff to get over my fears. Then there came I time I decided to step into my fears and after weeks of doing that consistently and proactively, I laughed at myself how I have been wasting years of my life, trying to figure it all out from my head. I released so much fear in just a couple of weeks taking action and doing embodiment work. It is a joy that keeps you moving forward in that direction because you see that this is what works. You are not avoiding anymore and your growth is being mirrored. Sometimes you have to put yourself in that container that will force you to step into tension. 

What is it that isn't changing? What are you fearing? What is the tension inside your body preventing you to do? Feel the tension, resistances, fears and all of those limiting feelings inside your body, and move into the world in a way that will get you closer and closer to that tension, until you are right in it.

When you are stepping into the tension, now it is all about learning to ground yourself inside that space through letting go of resisting feelings, stories, images and thoughts, as well as welcoming lighter feelings in your body, such as courage, love and acceptance. Those are distinct feelings/energies you can generate at will. 

The more you start to feel ligher in the situations you resist, the less fear you will have as a baseline, and the more you naturally become charismatic, grounded and present. Doing this consistently will lead to permanent embodiment where your nervous system has developed the supporting structures that leads to adaptation in personality. And this is ingrained into your body at that point. 

Meditation to get over fear is best used in conjunction with tension based embodiment work, supplementally. Specifically to help aid in releasing the emotions, images and thoughts that get triggered while you are stepping into tension. 

Meditation does a poor job at rewiring neural networks responsible for those automatic emotional responses to those situations you fear. Imagine you are learning a martial art such as Jiu Jitsu. Sitting at home, going over the techniques in your mind, even drilling it in your mind. This can be helpful. Yet when you would step on the mat and try to roll, you will find that your body does not flow with all the techniques you learned in your mind. You will get smashed hard by people that have spent time on the mat. Maybe you spent 10 years going over the techniques in your mind. Yet someone who has been training inside a gym for 6 months will smash you. 

It is the same with everything in life. Especially with fear. You have to put your body in it and nothing else will be as impactful as that. 

You probably know all of this already. And most do. Yet is your life is not changing, you probably only understand it in your mind and have not yet brought the information down in your body.

[ardacigin]

@Striving for more I suggest viewing meditation as something you could have been doing as you were writing this post. An operating system that will enhance all future moments.

With that attitude, your desire to get pragmatic results in 6 months max will dissolve into 'How can I practice each moment to develop the necessary skills and ACTUALLY enjoy my life?'

With that intention, your spiritual training will begin on a healthier foundation.

Edited April 12, 2022 by ardacigin

[Kalki Avatar]

If you Meditate right, you will see the benefits in a week.

Depends how Intense and for how long. After seeing the initial benefits, you know you are on the right path. But still, it will take time to find the real gems.

[The0Self]

Among the fastest methods is probably Culadasa's TMI. But it's comprehensive and takes a while to read -- or listen to; audiobook is available. Although obviously you can start practicing well before you finish reading the book.

Bhante Vimalaramsi's TWIM is great too, especially if you prefer Metta over breath. But Culadasa's TMI is extremely comprehensive -- it even gets into the underlying mechanics of entering nirvana, daily life aspects of the meditator's path, and ancillary practices, etc.

Time frames are useless to think about, but if I had to estimate I'd say for most people they might reach takeoff -- imo this corresponds with the ability to enter jhanas at will, as this pretty much just straight up ends the search for worldly pleasure -- within about 3-6 months of daily practice if it is truly priority #1, and then you might consider reading Rob Burbea's Seeing That Frees to navigate the more advanced territory of meditation land.

It's definitely incredibly fun stuff, once it takes off; even from the beginning if you're lucky.

Edited April 12, 2022 by The0Self