Elon Musk has NO IDEA what he is up against

[Rokazulu]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That will happen. That's how policing works. It's never perfect.

You guys are living in fantasy land. You have no comprehension of how difficult it is to moderate a platform like YT, Facebook, or Twitter.

Right. I can accept that.

But, there has to be an understanding that this is still not preferable. As such, it falls under censorship and not moderation in some cases.
Like a police officer who murders an innocent civilian. We can say "it is just how policing works". But, murder is still murder and no one is being held accountable. And no one is getting their channels, groups, or accounts back since no one wants to admit they made a mistake.

[Girzo]

12 hours ago, A_v_E said:

your claim that progress exist is in itself an epistemological claim based on a "left wing" assumption.

If progress is too leftist of a word for you in this sentence

13 hours ago, Girzo said:

Saying someone is a troll or a low consciousness person is not denying the game, it's assesing their progress in the game relative to you.

then call it "sophistication of their gameplay" or whatever. That's what I was trying to point out, that not only everyone is at another position in the game, but they are also not equal players, some people are more conscious of the game and play it more effectively. Denying that is not seeing a part of reality that indeed is there.

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Rokazulu said:

Right. I can accept that.

But, there has to be an understanding that this is still not preferable. As such, it falls under censorship and not moderation in some cases.
Like a police officer who murders an innocent civilian. We can say "it is just how policing works". But, murder is still murder and no one is being held accountable. And no one is getting their channels, groups, or accounts back since no one wants to admit they made a mistake.

The solution isn't no policing, it's higher quality policing.

Musk's position is as stupid as defunding the police.

[Hardkill]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The solution isn't no policing, it's higher quality policing.

Musk's position is as stupid as defunding the police.

Do you think that there will one day that a constitutional amendment that bans all of corporate lobbying and influence in all of politics will ever happen? Or will that idea always be too much of a pipe dream for that to ever happen?

Edited April 18, 2022 by Hardkill

[Girzo]

17 minutes ago, A_v_E said:

if you believe you can observe people value set easily and claim that one system of value is superior, it's always relative to a chosed frame.
Unless you claim an absolute metaphysic of reality as "people value set will always tend to "level up/progress" toward what I call  "natural hierarchy" of "growing up" /spiral dynamics ".

I don't think that anybody has done it yet, but I think it's possible to create such model that is not a tangled mess. Spiral Dynamics is a super-tangled model, dog-shit if treated as an empirical model, but has a few cool insights if treated as a philosophical one, although those have been refined by philosophers like Ken Wilber, so the only valuable thing left in SD is its marketing and branding.

One just need to find solid variables. "Ecology thinking" would be for example a shit variable. Utter shit because everyone, hippie, democrat and a nazi will be interested in ecology as shit hits the fan and we are confronted with results of environmental degradation. But I think it is possible to find solid variables through genuine, hard intelectual work.

Such models could be then used to aid in moderation of social media. But as I have said, haven't seen anyone achieve that yet. That's first, then someone has to sell that idea to people in power, because we are still playing the game and probably will be for a long time.

25 minutes ago, A_v_E said:

but some of the greatest artists in the world from only last century are racists/iper nationalist, how do you explain this for instance ?

We have had this discussion many times on this forum many times in regards to "how can it be there are Enlightened rapists and alcoholics?" I don't think it's needed to be talked about again in this thread and to bloat the concept of playing game with another distinction.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

Do you think that there will one day that a constitutional amendment that bans all of corporate lobbying and influence in all of politics will ever happen? Or will that idea always be too much of a pipe dream for that to ever happen?

Hopefully. Or at least strong laws against it.

But not in my lifetime.

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Hopefully. Or at least strong laws against it.

But not in my lifetime.

Why would it take more than a lifetime enact such strong laws or an amendment?

Does that mean for the rest of our entire lives that nothing will fundamentally change for government and other core institutions?

[Leo Gura]

@Hardkill Stop asking me and think for yourself.

[Hardkill]

55 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Hardkill Stop asking me and think for yourself.

Sorry.

I often don’t have faith in my ability to figure out this kind of stuff, especially when I don’t know as much as someone like you do about these bigger picture concepts.

[Rokazulu]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The solution is higher quality policing.

If only!
This news story wouldn't exist.
And we wouldn't have the myriads of splinter social media sites.

[thibault]

@Hardkill One reason is some people literally need to die. As in they are so entrenched in and benefit so much from the current system that they will exert a massive force to prevent change until the day they die. Once they die we can hope that their children are not as close minded.

[Danioover9000]

@thibault

5 hours ago, thibault said:

@Hardkill One reason is some people literally need to die. As in they are so entrenched in and benefit so much from the current system that they will exert a massive force to prevent change until the day they die. Once they die we can hope that their children are not as close minded.

   Ultimately, we can only hope for the best as a society. But as a person, you can make little changes to your life here and there, to eventually lead the good life.