What's more effective taking psychedelics or doing inner work.

[mo_v]

I've been doing inner work for almost 2 years now with no results should I just take psychedelics to see what happens? I've been doing Transformation Mastery by Julien Blanc which hasn't helped me unfortunately. 

[Nivsch]

Have you processed your uncomfortable thoughts and feelings directly, or you only did fixed techniques/methods?

You must transcend conscious techniques and go beyond those.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Nivsch

[Space]

@mo_v It depends what you're trying to do/heal/understand? If you're trying to understand the insights that Leo talks about, psychedelics are your best bet. If you're trying to, maybe improve your confidence or self-esteem, different forms of inner work might be suited. 

[Vynce]

Psychedelics are far superior to any other form of work, if you want to have insights into the nature of yourself and reality. It's a peak experience. So keep up with the normal consciousness work to integrate the insights. 

[Batman]

I recommend both, they compliment each other. I never done nor inquired into the program you mentioned, but I know Julien Blanc is an RSD instructor. As far as I know, much of the PUA community and RSD material is based on manipulation tactics and strategy, whether it is manipulation of internal state or of the environment. 

Sorry to break it to you, manipulation will not transform you, because you are already manipulating your internal state and the environment. Real transformation is about maturing, not adopting new ways of relating to circumstance. If you want to mature, you need to let go of your self induced childhood patterns. Psychedelics will show you some of this and connect you, at least temporarily, to a more integrated and honest experience of life. 

If you want real "growth", it is about becoming as honest as you can be, and becoming conscious of all the patterns you adopted throughout your life, and deciding whether to drop them or not. It is also about bringing to your Consciousness everything that your repress. If this type of work interest you, I invite to research "shadow work" and contemplation of unconscious mind. Psychedelics accelerate this process because they increase Consciousness by showing you the content of your subconscious mind, which tends to dominate your experience and fixate your life to a certain form. In my personal experience, Ayahuasca is the most transformative psychedelic. Ayahuasca provides not only ego death (when needed), but also forces you to deal with your emotions. It will also show you the deepest material of your unconscious mind - the deepest fears, sorrow, pain that you hold. Ayahuasca is not a walk in the park, it is serious emotional work. But it is worth it.

[Consilience]

7 hours ago, Vynce said:

Psychedelics are far superior to any other form of work, if you want to have insights into the nature of yourself and reality.

After aggressively exploring both psychedelics and meditation, there comes a point on the path where meditation becomes “more effective” than psychedelics. For beginners, yeah meditation is such a slow process psychedelics would be more effective for having insights. 

[vladorion]

Psychedelics will give you a peak experience but then you will come back to your normal state of consciousness. Unless you're on the brink of a breakthrough, which can be triggered by psychedelics.

This is your best bet if you want relatively quick and lasting results. Safer, too.

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by vladorion

[mo_v]

16 hours ago, Batman said:

I recommend both, they compliment each other. I never done nor inquired into the program you mentioned, but I know Julien Blanc is an RSD instructor. As far as I know, much of the PUA community and RSD material is based on manipulation tactics and strategy, whether it is manipulation of internal state or of the environment. 

Sorry to break it to you, manipulation will not transform you, because you are already manipulating your internal state and the environment. Real transformation is about maturing, not adopting new ways of relating to circumstance. If you want to mature, you need to let go of your self induced childhood patterns. Psychedelics will show you some of this and connect you, at least temporarily, to a more integrated and honest experience of life. 

If you want real "growth", it is about becoming as honest as you can be, and becoming conscious of all the patterns you adopted throughout your life, and deciding whether to drop them or not. It is also about bringing to your Consciousness everything that your repress. If this type of work interest you, I invite to research "shadow work" and contemplation of unconscious mind. Psychedelics accelerate this process because they increase Consciousness by showing you the content of your subconscious mind, which tends to dominate your experience and fixate your life to a certain form. In my personal experience, Ayahuasca is the most transformative psychedelic. Ayahuasca provides not only ego death (when needed), but also forces you to deal with your emotions. It will also show you the deepest material of your unconscious mind - the deepest fears, sorrow, pain that you hold. Ayahuasca is not a walk in the park, it is serious emotional work. But it is worth it.

Julien and Tyler hasent done pua since like 2017

Edited April 6, 2022 by mo_v
It was rude at first

[Waken]

At this time, nothing resonates with me more than the focus on allignment. In other words this could also be more or less translated as just being yourself, as you are/following your bliss/going with the flow.
You can make it your work to just allign your thoughts and actions with what resonates most with you/is most you. Via that approach you start thus to allign more and more with your own design, and thus come more and more into the expanded space of what is you. If you try to make things happen, you train away from your own inner guidance system and your own design. My approach: don't try to make life happen, relax, support yourself emotionally/be there for yourself and expand your comfort zone by stepping more into your passion/attraction when those oppurtinities arise.

[Insane butterfly]

Ist like an athlete who takes steroids but not going to the gym! 

[BipolarGrowth]

10 hours ago, Insane butterfly said:

Ist like an athlete who takes steroids but not going to the gym! 

You gain more muscle by taking steroids and sitting on the couch than going to the gym without steroids. 
 

Psychedelics work much like this. 
 

But taking psychedelics is inner work if you take them enough. 

[SeaMonster]

On 4/5/2022 at 3:12 AM, Nivsch said:

Have you processed your uncomfortable thoughts and feelings directly, or you only did fixed techniques/methods?

This.  Pretty much what it all boils down to -- allowing your pain to process without resorting to negative coping mechanisms.  The rest pretty much IS a negative coping mechanism --  including spiritual "knowledge" (i.e. conceptualizing spirituality instead of actually being present.)  If you're never allowing your pain to surface and witnessing it without turning to unhealthy distractions, there will be limited to no progress.

Look, it's all simple.  Either you're present or you're in your head, contemplating this abstract notion of "spirituality" or "higher consciousness", etc.  When you're thinking about spirituality you're NOT BEING SPIRITUAL.  The reason you're not present is because you're turning away from the pain.

 

[Razard86]

7 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

You gain more muscle by taking steroids and sitting on the couch than going to the gym without steroids. 
 

Psychedelics work much like this. 
 

But taking psychedelics is inner work if you take them enough. 

You do not gain more muscle by taking steroids and sitting on the couch than going to the gym without steroids.

Steroids like any type of drug are FACILITATORS. They basically enhance or supercharge a natural function.

Gaining muscle is an ADAPTIVE response to STRESS. Its a survival mechanism. If you DO NOT stress the body then it has no need to REPAIR the OVERSTRESSED muscle tissue and REPAIR AND MAKE IT STRONGER to withstand the STRESS.

Psychedelics are the same. If you do not do the inner work to you Psychedelics are just some bizarre hallucination and then you go back to your life.

Also side note: I capitilize to emphasize specific words...don't take it as me yelling. Maybe I should underline them or bold them? Its a habit I have done for years in texts. Let me know if it comes across hostile.

This is an example of a guy who did DMT but did not do any of the inner work.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/johnsemley/5-meo-dmt-psychedelics-retreat

Edited April 7, 2022 by Razard86

[BipolarGrowth]

42 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You do not gain more muscle by taking steroids and sitting on the couch than going to the gym without steroids.

Steroids like any type of drug are FACILITATORS. They basically enhance or supercharge a natural function.

Gaining muscle is an ADAPTIVE response to STRESS. Its a survival mechanism. If you DO NOT stress the body then it has no need to REPAIR the OVERSTRESSED muscle tissue and REPAIR AND MAKE IT STRONGER to withstand the STRESS.

Psychedelics are the same. If you do not do the inner work to you Psychedelics are just some bizarre hallucination and then you go back to your life.

Also side note: I capitilize to emphasize specific words...don't take it as me yelling. Maybe I should underline them or bold them? Its a habit I have done for years in texts. Let me know if it comes across hostile.

This is an example of a guy who did DMT but did not do any of the inner work.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/johnsemley/5-meo-dmt-psychedelics-retreat

https://www.nutritiontactics.com/does-testosterone-build-muscle-without-training/

[Razard86]

23 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

https://www.nutritiontactics.com/does-testosterone-build-muscle-without-training/

And here is an article that has a study that shows opposite results. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199607043350101

Scroll down and look at Figure 1. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Razard86

[Razard86]

Also here are the limitations of the study. They cannot account for the impact of genetics and how testosterone is metabolized in the body and efficient there body is at utilizing it. Everyone's metabolism is different so even bringing in groups and repeating the experiment over and over all you are going to produce is a range of results. Science is never EXACT, it is always approximate in nature. All you are looking for are patterns. I already knew I could find a study that contradicted what you sent me because I understand how testosterone works. The study doesn't even talk about long-term use, and how long term uses can destroy the natural testosterone you produce if you come off it and then will have to deal with the consequences. Anyway we can say that in certain circumstances your scenario is true.....but it has a lot of different factors that are left out when it is stated.

[Dazgwny]

Yea it really does depend what your after. I mean your not gonna be able to grasp how reality is being constructed by sitting there doing inner work and meditating. You could get the non dual nature of reality of course. But if your wanting to actually see the construction at play, it’s going to take psychedelics. Your not going to grasp the visual aspect of for instance how anything and everything is superimposed all in the exact same place through meditation and inner work for just one example. Completely see through the physical illusion that is manifested, and how your doing it. The same goes for all sounds smells and whatever else, everything, all there at once meshed into each other, into infinity.

But if your just wanting to work on your personal self, then meditation and that is good. Merge the two together psychedelics and meditation done in the proper manner then your absolutely flying, provided you’ve a good basis of conceptual understandings in the first place. That’s where the years worth of Leo’s videos come in, to help you with understanding what is to come and interpret what has already been. And of course, what is. But without believing, and only through directly experiencing for yourself

[BipolarGrowth]

11 hours ago, Razard86 said:

And here is an article that has a study that shows opposite results. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199607043350101

Scroll down and look at Figure 1. 

Figure 1 seems to show that exercising naturally is slightly better at building strength than not exercising while taking testosterone and that not exercising and taking testosterone builds significantly more muscle than exercising naturally. 
 

Not sure how this conflicts with what I linked. Seems to just be more evidence to confirm it. 
 

Anyway, psychedelics will still make a difference for people who don’t do much other inner work in a lot of cases. Of course doing inner work and taking psychedelics would be better than just taking psychedelics alone. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by BipolarGrowth

[Lenny]

@mo_v What type of inner work have you been doing? In my experience, we can reach states reported by people who have used psychedelics naturally through a number of techniques.

Note that "letting go" or diverting attention from "inner work" can be a form of inner work, so we can be doing the wrong thing and still think that it is inner work. The concept of "inner work" isn't what inner work is in reality. Understand that what you think is "inner work" is not really inner work. Inner work could be equated to abiding in your absolute intelligence (before the thought "I need to do inner work" arrises as a product of this intelligence (that which you are)).

Know that you are the intelligence that has created the idea of "inner work" (from collecting information and data about it). Your "inner work" is a synthesis of all the information that you have collected (thought limited understanding and perception - which we all have). Inner work is an "unfolding" that occurs outside/before/underneath the thought of "inner work". In a sense, the "you" that you think you are doesn't really have control over when the inner work happens. It is because the ideas and thoughts of "inner work" are artefacts of that which does not require "inner work".

I hope this helps

Love from Lenny.

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Lenny

[Inliytened1]

On 4/5/2022 at 0:53 AM, mo_v said:

I've been doing inner work for almost 2 years now with no results should I just take psychedelics to see what happens? I've been doing Transformation Mastery by Julien Blanc which hasn't helped me unfortunately. 

Leverage all tools ar your disposal- responsibly   Only take psychedelics if you are mentally stable.   Have you also been doing self inquiry and do nothing meditation?  And listening to the metaphysical episodes here and reading books by guys like Peter Ralston?