Professor Claims Mystical Experiences are Delusions

[SQAAD]

@Carl-Richard

6 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Mystical experiences are neither inherently pre- nor post-rational. Pre- and post-rationality are different value systems or levels of cognition, and mystics throughout history have had different values, but the core of the pre-perceptual mystical experience (the non-dual experience) has stayed the same.

Mystical experiences may not be post or pre rational. But the interpretation of those experiences certainly is. 

This professor makes the pre rational fallacy. 

[Carl-Richard]

21 minutes ago, SQAAD said:

@Carl-Richard

Mystical experiences may not be post or pre rational. But the interpretation of those experiences certainly is. 

This professor makes the pre rational fallacy. 

What did he say specifically that makes you think that?

[SQAAD]

@Carl-Richard

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

What did he say specifically that makes you think that?

"Similar to the narcissist's shared fantasy, mystical experiences and religions founded on these experiences are delusional regressions to an infantile phase prior to separation-individuation from god/cosmos/nature and merger/fusion/oceanic feeling/enmeshment/engulfment (no self-object or object representations)."

 

 

That's an interpretation. And not an accurate one. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by SQAAD

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, SQAAD said:

@Carl-Richard

"Similar to the narcissist's shared fantasy, mystical experiences and religions founded on these experiences are delusional regressions to an infantile phase prior to separation-individuation from god/cosmos/nature and merger/fusion/oceanic feeling/enmeshment/engulfment (no self-object or object representations)."

All I'm seeing is a reductionistic psychodynamic explanation of the mystical experience. I don't see how it's a pre-trans fallacy.

[vizual]

I don’t know who said it but a real spiritual experience is a non experience. Spiritual experiences are just delusions. If you think you had some spiritual “breakthrough” you are fooling yourself. It’s usually just nonsense to feed your ego.

 Drugs are not going to make you enlightened kids, no matter what uncle Leo tells you

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, vizual said:

I don’t know who said it but a real spiritual experience is a non experience. Spiritual experiences are just delusions. If you think you had some spiritual “breakthrough” you are fooling yourself. It’s usually just nonsense to feed your ego.

 Drugs are not going to make you enlightened kids, no matter what uncle Leo tells you

Mystics throughout history have been both skeptical and welcoming of mystical experiences that exceed the pure non-dual experience (e.g. visions and speech from God). For example, Jan Esmann is one of the most advanced non-dual teachers out there, and his most important experience involved perceptual content ("The Blue Being"). Nevertheless, it's sad to discredit other people's experiences.

[Jodistrict]

The curious thing is that the professor isn’t  equally skeptical of the reality of his everyday experience.   I am more and more seeing modern civilization as just noise, i.e., constant chatter without any meaningful purpose.  People are stuck in their heads and conditioned to form judgments on something in which they have no direct experience, thus cementing them in a prison of their own ignorance.   What is called  “mystical experience” is a glimpse of truth after the noise quiets down.  Anyone who has experienced it knows that it is more real than the waking state.   The rational mind trapped in its illusions has  brought us to the brink of unsustainability and destruction.  Hence the need for these altered states to clean the heart and change the values of the collective.   It’s about survival.

[gettoefl]

8 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

The curious thing is that the professor isn’t  equally skeptical of the reality of his everyday experience.   I am more and more seeing modern civilization as just noise, i.e., constant chatter without any meaningful purpose.  People are stuck in their heads and conditioned to form judgments on something in which they have no direct experience, thus cementing them in a prison of their own ignorance.   What is called  “mystical experience” is a glimpse of truth after the noise quiets down.  Anyone who has experienced it knows that it is more real than the waking state.   The rational mind trapped in its illusions has  brought us to the brink of unsustainability and destruction.  Hence the need for these altered states to clean the heart and change the values of the collective.   It’s about survival.

the guy does not believe in religion so no surprise he is mystical experience negative

what is religion? it is god making itself known ... mind cant know this ... so what is needed is mystical experience ... namely get silent

if you are atheist, you are not going to trust people who tell us something about god

[The Rainmaker]

A mystical experience is not synonymous to a delusion. However, there's a Venn diagram with some overlap in the middle. That's not to say that any mystical experience is delusional, or that even most are. That is, rather, to say that episodes of psychosis can be marked by facets of mystical experiences. For instance, a guy like Connor Murphy who clearly had a real relationship with God that his psyche simply could not handle.

Edited April 4, 2022 by The Rainmaker

[gettoefl]

for anyone interested in the mirror of simple souls referenced in this clip

https://ia801306.us.archive.org/34/items/TheMirrorsOfSimpleSouls/The Mirrors of Simple Souls.pdf