How do you know whether criticism is coming from above or below?

[Gesundheit2]

I try to keep an open mind all the time, but still. In my whole life, I've never dealt with criticism as much as the criticism I've gotten from the Actualized forum, both from members and moderators. Most people in real life just deal with me normally, and my relationships with others are good overall, at least that's how it seems to me at the moment. Even when I was at my worst (psychotic, neurotic, delusional, religious, dogmatic dickhead), rarely did anyone tell me to change my behaviors, even though I literally used to ask my friends all the time to be brutally honest with me whenever they thought I needed to change. Although, some people did reduce or even cut contact with me at the time.

And now, after getting rid of the dickhead I was before, I never get criticism anymore, literally none except from the Actualized forum, not even verbal fights or even tensions, unless of course someone steps on my boundaries, which is where I activate the chimp mode haha. But to be fair, I don't socialize as much as before so I may be wrong.

But maybe it's hard to criticize someone directly in their face, maybe the way I carry myself prevents people from thinking about criticizing me, or maybe people talk about me behind my back, but anyway. None of us is perfect. Everyone is a work-in-progress. That's how I see the world and people around me.

So now, how do you know if someone is actually bringing up a valid point about your behavior?

I know I know, someone is going to say there aren't any right or wrong behaviors, but let's be practical for now. Morality is relative to society, not absolutely relative, as Jordan Peterson says. And I'm not even really concerned with the moral aspect of the question. I'm mostly asking about the practical aspect. When someone tells someone else to change, what is really the case there? And why doesn't that someone change themselves instead of telling others to change? There are two sides of the equation. Either I change my behavior, or the other person accepts it as normal. So, how do we decide who should be the one to change? Can we find a middle-ground?

[Bob Seeker]

Just always look to improve yourself and become more loving for your own sake.

Criticism from others can just inform your improvement efforts.

There’s nothing wrong with anything, you are perfect.

but why not increase the love and the things you find valuable

[zurew]

2 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

When someone tells someone else to change, what is really the case there? And why doesn't that someone change themselves instead of telling others to change? There are two sides of the equation. Either I change my behavior, or the other person accepts it as normal. 

In my opinion, if a lot of people is telling you the same critique to you, that should be alarming for you to think about it. But its all depending on the situation and on the kind of critique you receive.

For example, you can get critiques from people who is much better at a certain field than you,  so you should evaluate what they are saying to you.

I think you should also differentiate between critiques and impulses from someone. Sometimes there is a heated moment in someone's life so they will project a lot onto you.

Overall, what you can do is to improve your own self reflecting abilities. If you focus on improving your self-reflection, if some critiques are valid you should be able to realise them yourself. Of course, there is your own bias, so that you can't see some stuff, but still using certain practices like meditation and psychedelics should show some fallacies in your ego. 

 

2 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

There are two sides of the equation. Either I change my behavior, or the other person accepts it as normal. So, how do we decide who should be the one to change? Can we find a middle-ground?

If we are talking about an intimite relationship, if someone wants you to change your core values and some of your core habits, then you should really think about that realtionship if you really want that to go forward. 

If we are talking about  slight behaviour change suggestions, then maybe if that person is important for you, you can try to change those. You should know exactly, where you want to draw your own line. What is that you can tolerate.

You should always focus on what you can do. But negotiating can be important as well, but before that you should know exactly what your values are, and where you draw your line.

If your line is clear, then communicating with the friend or partner can be beneficial, communicating is key. Informing that particular person where is your line, what will you be able to sacrifice for that particular relationship, and getting to know why they told you their critique.

[Gesundheit2]

@Bob Seeker @zurew Thanks guys. All clear and helpful.

[Gesundheit2]

@Cykaaaa That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

[Gesundheit2]

@Preety_India Bye's.

[Federico del pueblo]

@Gesundheit2 I can't answer your actual questions, but have a few things to say.

Generally the tone on this forum here is somewhat negative, probably for a variety of reasons.

People coming here are coming from very different backgrounds and often have fundamentally different views.

People get triggered a lot on here and thus they try to trigger the other person back.

A lot of what you see here is just the ego in action. A person's identify/ego is threatened by someone's views and thus it gets triggered and goes over to the attack.

And then of course the fact that nobody has to look someone else in the eyes when formulating a critique adds to the negative tone and rudeness.

If people talked like they do on this forum in real life, things would probably often escalate and sometimes someone would get smacked in the face.

Then add to that, that a lot of people on here (if not most) are dealing with major struggles, have had major upsets, trauma and so on. So you have incels, women who were disappointed by men (or worse: violated) all mixed together in one place.

It doesn't surprise me that things get nasty on here so quickly.

And then you sometimes have to tell these hurt people that they actually have quite something to do with the poor results they've been getting and ofc many people don't want to hear that, so they'll quickly attack you back.

And I'm making the same experiences as you. People often tell me in real life that I'm a cool person and fun to hang out with etc. and here I often just get some nasty, ego triggering, condescending comments.

But please also reflect on your own comments. We tend to see the rudeness and violence in others' comments but not in our own and I'm also guilty of sometimes being a little bit too harsh or uncaring with my comments, maybe you are too.

[Gesundheit2]

@Federico del pueblo ?

[Danioover9000]

@Gesundheit2

On 27/03/2022 at 4:36 PM, Gesundheit2 said:

I try to keep an open mind all the time, but still. In my whole life, I've never dealt with criticism as much as the criticism I've gotten from the Actualized forum, both from members and moderators. Most people in real life just deal with me normally, and my relationships with others are good overall, at least that's how it seems to me at the moment. Even when I was at my worst (psychotic, neurotic, delusional, religious, dogmatic dickhead), rarely did anyone tell me to change my behaviors, even though I literally used to ask my friends all the time to be brutally honest with me whenever they thought I needed to change. Although, some people did reduce or even cut contact with me at the time.

And now, after getting rid of the dickhead I was before, I never get criticism anymore, literally none except from the Actualized forum, not even verbal fights or even tensions, unless of course someone steps on my boundaries, which is where I activate the chimp mode haha. But to be fair, I don't socialize as much as before so I may be wrong.

But maybe it's hard to criticize someone directly in their face, maybe the way I carry myself prevents people from thinking about criticizing me, or maybe people talk about me behind my back, but anyway. None of us is perfect. Everyone is a work-in-progress. That's how I see the world and people around me.

So now, how do you know if someone is actually bringing up a valid point about your behavior?

I know I know, someone is going to say there aren't any right or wrong behaviors, but let's be practical for now. Morality is relative to society, not absolutely relative, as Jordan Peterson says. And I'm not even really concerned with the moral aspect of the question. I'm mostly asking about the practical aspect. When someone tells someone else to change, what is really the case there? And why doesn't that someone change themselves instead of telling others to change? There are two sides of the equation. Either I change my behavior, or the other person accepts it as normal. So, how do we decide who should be the one to change? Can we find a middle-ground?

   I think that if a criticism is constructive, and the person is willing to give examples and explains to you your mistakes and what you could improve on, in a non judgemental way, then that criticism is from above.  Any other criticism is from below, including the more emotionally charged ones.

[Gesundheit2]

49 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Gesundheit2

   I think that if a criticism is constructive, and the person is willing to give examples and explains to you your mistakes and what you could improve on, in a non judgemental way, then that criticism is from above.  Any other criticism is from below, including the more emotionally charged ones.

Thanks! That is an excellent point.

I think rarity in this case correlates positively with the presupposition. In other words, critiques from above are rare, and that's also the case for constructive, non-judgemental, etc. criticisms. And since both of the definitions are rare, then they must be the same thing.