The core of the Universe is not love???

[Fernanda]

39 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

creation occurs spontaneously, want and creation are simultaneous, and that's happening now, always.

Nice! I have the same impression.

The only reason we don't get what we "want" is because we didn’t really want it in the first place.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Fernanda

[Chrisd]

9 minutes ago, Fernanda said:

Nice! I have the same impression.

The only reason we don't get what we "want" is because we didn’t really want it in the first place.

What is your proof of this theory though

[RMQualtrough]

55 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I had a vision with psychedelics, more real than reality. the void unlimited that is (me) recognizes itself and in doing so explodes in love, pure love in creative passion, and automatically, everything that can be, is. torture, hell, are pure mystical love. creation occurs spontaneously, want and creation are simultaneous, and that's happening now, always. but well, it's a realization that I remember, memory, just speculation really. Right now I'm not even remotely aware of that. 

You were tripping tbh dude, Connor Murphy thought he was an alien sent to Earth to spread the gospel. Most of the tangible "ideas" are not that reliable.

I've tripped in excess of 100 times easily, never felt love ever. Barely ever feel it in sober life either. It never arises so it's never part of my "insights"...

The spontaneity of creation seems right... I've been able to "will" things on DMT, but I think perhaps it may be the inverse of what causes deja vu. Deja vu is when your conscious mind lags a bit out of sync, creating the sensation it's happened before because you already registered what you are aware of now. It's just a tiny lag...

And when for example I decide to "will" Marge Simpson's hair into a trip (yes, I was high, it happens) that might be the reverse where there is perfect sync. So the """desire""" for a thing (which is ofc really just a thought) happens totally in sync and simultaneously with the conscious mind's rendering of it, giving a sense that it has been chosen... But before I "wanted" to make Marge's hair appear, there wasn't a moment of choosing for that want to appear... I suspect there isn't actually will, just unfurling. Infinity is out of control, which makes sense really. Borders are what gives things stability. No borders is chaos.

[Breakingthewall]

28 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

You were tripping tbh dude, Connor Murphy thought he was an alien sent to Earth to spread the gospel. Most of the tangible "ideas" are not that reliable.

Yeah you are right, its only an idea. I don't care about ideas, about what is reality or anything conceptual, It is a simple hobby to speculate around here. for me spirituality is to empty the mind and go beyond it, what I said before is mind and it is really the same as saying anything else

Edited May 27, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Fernanda]

2 hours ago, Chrisd said:

What is your proof of this theory though

I have no proof and it is not a theory!

[Leo Gura]

20 hours ago, cetus said:

Perfect

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

Barely ever feel it in sober life either.

That's the problem.

[Yeah Yeah]

@RMQualtrough

2 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

And when for example I decide to "will" Marge Simpson's hair into a trip (yes, I was high, it happens) that might be the reverse where there is perfect sync. So the """desire""" for a thing (which is ofc really just a thought) happens totally in sync and simultaneously with the conscious mind's rendering of it, giving a sense that it has been chosen... But before I "wanted" to make Marge's hair appear, there wasn't a moment of choosing for that want to appear... I suspect there isn't actually will, just unfurling. Infinity is out of control, which makes sense really. 

If you are pointing out some of my own suspicions, this makes my analysis of this happening both the more interesting and concerning (to the degree of free will, or if the environment is spontanious and I'm a symptom of that unfolding pretending to have a sense of freedom over my being,) ... Though I have zero answer how I beat my heart, digest my food, breath and neither can I stop these functions and live freely otherwise, since it's out of my freedom to control it (which brings in the dangers of Artificial Intelligence and do we really know what we can achieve from technology without hampering the natural world into turmoil/pollution/obesity) ... I don't know where my thoughts spring from, or how to handle my emotions, or why I like chocolate more than vanilla, or why I see 3 main colours specifically, or why cinamon smells the way it does, or why alcohol exists,

Then again Leo also points out, all this was my own design, and I can get high enough to discover these answers for myself - And I have done to a degree, but I also realized I don't want that, because it'd be boring and game over?

[BlueOak]

2 hours ago, Chrisd said:

What is your proof of this theory though

There is no proof because its demonstratively false. Want isn't always created in front of your eyes. It completely depends on what is internally and externally going on.

Consider how even in your own life you've wanted something, I mean really wanted it and not achieved or obtained it. Something you poured a year into, months, or countless hours. Still even now you might want it and have never found or gained it. Have you had those experiences? Because I have.

In my case I was teaching myself persistence, that failure wasn't fatal. That often you don't get what you want. Often you get what's best for the group around you. Things around me have moved so far away from what I actually want, that the notion of this is comical and is making me laugh. I had to learn to adjust to what others wanted, I had to learn humility, empathy, how to transition through emotions etc.

There are many reasons we exist on earth, and its not just to get what we want.

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by BlueOak

[Yeah Yeah]

20 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Love looks a lot like indifference and cruelty sometimes

[Fernanda]

7 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

There are many reasons we exist on earth, and its not just to get what we want.

You are totally right about that.

Let me explain this way...

What I didn’t get, my ego wanted, but the capital I did not. So, it didn’t happen. Our minds are tricky. There is no proof of what I said but I really actualized it. You can't always prove what's true for you, it's embodied.

[BlueOak]

16 minutes ago, Fernanda said:

You are totally right about that.

Let me explain this way...

What I didn’t get, my ego wanted, but the capital I did not. So, it didn’t happen. Our minds are tricky. There is no proof of what I said but I really actualized it. You can't always prove what's true for you, it's embodied.

I don't mean to come down too hard on you and your experience, that's sort of the point though. To a certain extent, reality works differently for each of us. Based on who we are. If I were starting this comment chain I wouldn't say proof I would say:

Experience is enough. When you have experienced a cycle of reflection over decades it's embodied. 

Some people can begin to manifest in 5 minutes, it takes me towards a year. That's just how it is. When someone says manifesting is easy, these days I laugh. It's not for me, that's my experience and my reality. Just like how some of us can predict the future, not like a spiritual seer might, I do it based on observing obvious mechanical patterns in people's behavior and looking at historical trends. The more awareness I gain the more obvious people's patterns are because I have seen them in myself, this changes the nature of any interaction I have. 

I somewhat predicted the response would be to refer to the absolute. We are absolute, so if I am stubborn, the reality around me is also stubborn. If I am argumentative, the reality around me will reflect that. If I say thank you for taking the time to respond to me, and place my hands together, gratitude will be reflected in how I interact with others.

[Fernanda]

5 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

If I say thank you for taking the time to respond to me, and place my hands together, gratitude will be reflected in how I interact with others.

You are the manifestor yourself. Thank you for your kind response???

[The Mystical Man]

I'm taking Adya's "Fierce Love" course, and he's also saying that ultimate reality is beyond love, but that love is one of the first manifestations of ultimate reality. That's represented by the map of consciousness too. At the top of the map, you have pure consciousness, which is an infinite field of potentiality that manifests as peace, joy, and love. Ultimate reality is not indifferent; it's impersonal. The view of God as indifferent is at the level of pride. However, at the top of the map, God simply is. The point of life is to become more like God and manifest peace, joy, and love. To do that, you need courage. Courage alone is powerful; it's the foundation and it's connected to all of the other noble values of humanity: integrity, honesty, unity, truth, peace, joy, and love. When you listen to interviews with Rowling, she talks about her value of courage. And we all know the impact she had. Ramana's definition of enlightenment was "absolute courage in all situations."

Edited May 27, 2022 by The Mystical Man

[RMQualtrough]

4 hours ago, Yeah Yeah said:

@RMQualtrough

If you are pointing out some of my own suspicions, this makes my analysis of this happening both the more interesting and concerning (to the degree of free will, or if the environment is spontanious and I'm a symptom of that unfolding pretending to have a sense of freedom over my being,) ... Though I have zero answer how I beat my heart, digest my food, breath and neither can I stop these functions and live freely otherwise, since it's out of my freedom to control it (which brings in the dangers of Artificial Intelligence and do we really know what we can achieve from technology without hampering the natural world into turmoil/pollution/obesity) ... I don't know where my thoughts spring from, or how to handle my emotions, or why I like chocolate more than vanilla, or why I see 3 main colours specifically, or why cinamon smells the way it does, or why alcohol exists,

Then again Leo also points out, all this was my own design, and I can get high enough to discover these answers for myself - And I have done to a degree, but I also realized I don't want that, because it'd be boring and game over?

I do tune in more experientially with the detached school of thought. I also find it more liberating, though personal feelings should never get in the way of what is fact... You cannot hold regrets if you believe the actions you regret merely unfolded as the universe itself does.

I can't think of many situations now... But maybe rejecting certain people romantically? Maybe being mean to a loved one once... Hurtful things I may have said and done... When you can remove the appearance and simply observe the unfurling of this....... You understand that all of that too was just that continuous unfurling, and the element of control or regret or FOMO is part of the ego mind.

The things you mention are the unfurling of infinity. I could and think I have elsewhere been more precise... But the only way for existence to be, is for finity to appear (not a typo). Infinity alone has no border anywhere at all. Infinity = nothing = the only thing where there could never be any border. Something of any kind = finity.

There is infinity/nothingness. You call it consciousness (though really nobody has ever "had consciousness", it is the inverse). You cannot grab and mold something when there is nowhere to grab if you see what I mean? To have a thought, say a desire for the world to be a certain way, that desire is finite and thus has a graspable border: it is a specific desire and NOT something else. E.g. a desire for this universe and not another. Finity is how infinity manifests as existence, but infinity itself has no limit. It can contain them but never possess them, so it can contain your desires, alcohol, colors, but never itself be them as all of these items are limited. Consider: When you watch a movie each character is a set of pixels. The screen contains the entire movie and all the characters, and the movie is made OF and contained within that screen. But none of those characters or pixels are themselves the screen itself despite the fact they simultaneously are it (as said: they are made of the screen, appear in it). This is like the limits inside of infinity.

More: Your entire person-ness is finity. Everything around you including the stuff "in your head" like private thoughts are finity. The reason you can see the color blue on your car is because it appears as blue and NOT also simultaneously as every other possible thing. Shapes, sounds, sensations when you touch things: the feeling of something hot is graspable because it is limited, it is hot and not cold. It is hot and not the sound of a violin... You the human being, your entire life, you are among the limitations which manifest as a natural result of that which has no limits - that without limits being nothingness (common term: "consciousness")... Build a house on a completely infinite empty open field, now there is an inside and an outside, air fills the inside of the house and also outside. Now knock the house down, what happens to the air? It was always just itself, just air, the border of the house was a limited construct... You the person are that house.

Edited May 27, 2022 by RMQualtrough

[gettoefl]

desire is make this bigger

fear is don't make this smaller

love is this could not be more perfect

[amanen]

The universes intelligence includes loving you personally through whatever form it will come. It cares about you and you specically.

When you become so conscious that you see how you personally designed the universe from love, you can realize that it has all been for YOU. Not somebody else.

The world is here just for you and your experience. IT IS FOR YOU!

When your love towards yourself is so great, nothing bad will happen to you.

I don't mean you get mugged but by some unattachment avoid the suffering from it, but by the understanding of tour true nature you will never even get robbed, thus avoiding the suffering.

You still think there are other people who can hurt you, but the truth is that they are so deeply you that if you so desired they would give all of their posessions away to you instead.

Because everybody knows you are it anyways, they are just pretending.

If you want to you can make the whole world happy immediately. But the world does not exist, only your personal life does. Thats the whole illusion, that there is some big bad world. Its all within your control directly.

You are God completely, ever loving yourself. The less you own up to this fact the more sufferring you will cause for yourself comimg from apparent "other" causes such as disease, other people, and external events.

I do not ever have to work because God took care of me with her unconditional love towards me by making me a millionaire.

God also showed me what true passionate unconditional love in a relationship is.

Even meeting my girlfriend was not accidental but we met due to magical abilites induced by MDMA. If that isn't God personally caring, I don't know what is.

It is your dream, and of course you love yourself. 

All I did was achieve an unprecedented amount of trust towards love.

I gambled my whole life on trusting God.

And God answered me back with more love

There is no need to accept the suffering, the suffering of the world is not even real, you are God, take ownership and make yourself the heaven that you deserve.

This is the infinite beauty of solipsism.

[BlueOak]

Someone mentioned the map of consciousness.

Divine love, unconditional, without attachment or expectation, Is not the same as what most of us know as love. It is significantly stronger or more complete than romantic attachment or joy as an emotion for example. If you were in that state for long you wouldn't be here. That's all I know for a certainty.

This is how you get there. Love every poster in this thread, sit down and show gratitude, joy and then love for every single word spoken. Pick the poster that you have the most difficulty with and find reasons to love their words, or them, or the experience. For some people it takes untangling acceptance with love, or agreement with love, or whatever they've tied to it. Love is just love. It's nothing else. There is nothing else there to attach to it.

Love everything that enters your life. It's all you. Love everything you currently hate. Again, it's not agreement, it's not acceptance, it's just love. You can actively work to change something while loving it for example. Its not being a doormat, its not accepting or allowing abuse, violence or narcissism. It can be difficult, but there is no barrier to it other than what you put up. No thinking of worth or deserving, or worrying about what it will mean. 

So I'll end this one saying love to you all, and all the words that are spoken here, all the people that put their time and effort into these discussions to help others/yourself. Gratitude to leo and the moderators for running this and their effort in maintaining it. Thank you all for the many replies to all the topics here to increase awareness and insight. You all restored my faith in spiritual development where it was almost gone.

If you want a spiritual practice that embodies this, the fifth agreement does. Toltec shamans do.

Gratitude.

[Breakingthewall]

18 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

@Breakingthewall But a want is 

 

existence is love and that is something you can see in some moments, and in others, or most, not. we are completely conditioned people and we do not see beyond our conditioning. That's what we meditate for, to transcend conditioning and see clearly. If you see through the conditioning, being completely indifferent to what is good or bad for you, you will see the perfection, the art, the passion, the pure love that exists in everything. in a stone on the ground, in a word, in the noise of traffic, in the sky, in a building. This is what we aspire to with spirituality, not to masturbate the mind but to direct vision, because in it is true love, the only one that exists, that encompasses everything. that is total intelligence. absence of stupidity, since stupidity is the preference. useful to survive, but stupid as soon as it takes you away from the truth and deceives you, it makes you stupid

 

[Yeah Yeah]

6 hours ago, amanen said:

I don't mean you get mugged but by some unattachment avoid the suffering from it, but by the understanding of tour true nature you will never even get robbed, thus avoiding the suffering.

You still think there are other people who can hurt you, but the truth is that they are so deeply you that if you so desired they would give all of their posessions away to you instead.

Because everybody knows you are it anyways, they are just pretending.

If you want to you can make the whole world happy immediately. But the world does not exist, only your personal life does. Thats the whole illusion, that there is some big bad world. Its all within your control directly.

You are God completely, ever loving yourself. The less you own up to this fact the more sufferring you will cause for yourself comimg from apparent "other" causes such as disease, other people, and external events.

Wow, I felt like a child visiting a toy store and marvelling at the possible delights ...