What is your impression of people at stage Yellow?

[thisintegrated]

Since I asked about Orange, why not this too.

I have limited experience with Yellows, but I always love them so much.  They're the only people that can "leave an impression" on me, or can "inspire" me (besides Turquoises).  They're the first stage that I can actually respect.  I feel like the difference between Orange and Yellow is massive, yet subtle in a way.  Oranges seem like kids.  Even the biggest, most respected Orange CEOs seem like children when compared to a Yellow.

That said, they can be a bit too immersed in the unimportant details of life, and maybe struggle to enjoying life fully.  As Yellows discover the validity of contradictory perspectives, they often fail to choose the best perspectives for themselves.  Objectivity gets in the way, and their unbiased nature limits their happiness.

 

What are Actualized's impressions of people at this stage?

[itachi uchiha]

@thisintegrated do u meet anyone who is yellow in real life . i could not meet anyone who is green. eveyone i meet are red, blue and selfish prick orange

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

That said, they can be a bit too immersed in the unimportant details of life, and maybe struggle to enjoying life fully.  As Yellows discover the validity of contradictory perspectives, they often fail to choose the best perspectives for themselves.  Objectivity gets in the way, and their unbiased nature limits their happiness.

Do you think Turquoise = mysticism?

[itachi uchiha]

where can i find yellow in real life

[thisintegrated]

24 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Do you think Turquoise = mysticism?

No, why? 

 

28 minutes ago, itachi uchiha said:

@thisintegrated do u meet anyone who is yellow in real life . i could not meet anyone who is green. eveyone i meet are red, blue and selfish prick orange

I'm young, so in my generation there are plenty of Greens.  I also live in a relatively progressive country, so they're easy for me to find.  You'd struggle finding Greens who are 40+, especially in places like the middle east or less developed regions.

Pure Yellows are very hard to find, but finding people who exhibit strong Yellow traits is very doable.  Most of the Yellows I've come across have been either public speakers (e.g. someone like Andrew Yang), or experts in various fields doing talks/interviews (e.g. someone like Brian Eno).

 

Quote

where can i find yellow in real life

This forum might be the easiest place to find Yellows.  Otherwise, become an expert in something and collaborate with other experts.  Just be careful not to go into something heavily dominated by Oranges.

Edited March 26, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, thisintegrated said:

No, why? 

What distinguishes Turquoise from Yellow?

[thisintegrated]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

What distinguishes Turquoise from Yellow?

Yellow is more nerdy, intellectual, and curious about earthly systems.

Turquoise doesn't give a shit, and just lives in ecstasy, basically.  Look at Sadhguru or Osho dancing, that's basically the essence of Turquoise.  Now, although Turquoise isn't intellectual, it isn't stupid like Blue.  Turquoise is so wise that the intellect would just be a distraction and serve no purpose. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgrOVs-h6SI

No explanation, no logic, no reason, just enjoying life.

Edited March 26, 2022 by thisintegrated

[itachi uchiha]

@thisintegrated

is turqoise more intelligent than yellow

[puporing]

6 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Yellow is more nerdy, intellectual, and curious about earthly systems.

Turquoise doesn't give a shit, and just lives in ecstasy, basically

^This.

[thisintegrated]

13 minutes ago, itachi uchiha said:

@thisintegrated

is turqoise more intelligent than yellow

Less intellectual.  More wise.

The intelligence adapts to serve the higher needs of Turquoise.  Though, these needs aren't gonna be anything exciting from an outside perspective.  Turquoise will be more intelligent when it comes to understanding love, emotions, happiness, existence, etc.  But it will be less interested in war strategy / geopolitics / anything "normal".  So Turquoise may underperform in some tasks due to a lack of interest, but that's more the fault of the rest of society for being so far behind Turquoise.

Edited March 26, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Carl-Richard]

On 26.3.2022 at 5:21 AM, thisintegrated said:

Yellow is more nerdy, intellectual, and curious about earthly systems.

Turquoise doesn't give a shit, and just lives in ecstasy, basically.  Look at Sadhguru or Osho dancing, that's basically the essence of Turquoise.  Now, although Turquoise isn't intellectual, it isn't stupid like Blue.  Turquoise is so wise that the intellect would just be a distraction and serve no purpose. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgrOVs-h6SI

No explanation, no logic, no reason, just enjoying life.

Sadhguru and Osho are mystics, so yes, that is what I meant by the previous question.

The way I see it is that "mysticism" (i.e. having a significant propensity towards the "being" aspect of reality) shouldn't be treated as something that is inherent to a particular developmental stage (at least in the case of SD), but instead either as its own developmental domain ("line" in SDi terms) or something that is only softly correlated with higher development.

To elaborate on that last point: if we go by modern Western society, mysticism tends to become more common at Green and up, but again, it's only a soft correlation and not an obligatory step, even for Turquoise. Breaking out of the mono-perspectival mold of scientific materialism (Orange) requires investigating many different perspectives, which by just sheer statistics increases the likelihood of discovering mysticism (of course cognitive flexibility also helps with that process), but still again, it's not a fully stage-dependent trait according to SD.

So how do I define Turquoise then if not "Yellow + mysticism"? I struggled with this question for a while, but Nahm put it in a way that makes sense (paraphrasing with slight modification): "Turquoise is when you take the lessons of Yellow and properly share it with the world." In other words, the lessons of holism, the systems view and unconditional care is properly integrated into your individuality, and then your next job is to integrate this into the collective (as Turquoise is a collectivist stage).

In this sense, Sadhguru is certainly Turquoise. Just look at his global-scale influence of deeply holistic approaches to environmental issues. His new Save Soil project is the pinnacle of Turquoise systems thinking: prioritizing and understanding the complex interconnections of the Earth-Humanity system and distributing this knowledge across several social channels; changing public opinion through mass-scale media appearances on podcasts like Joe Rogan and TV morning shows; changing policy through talks at the UN and various government meetings etc. What the guys at Game B are doing through blog posts, Sadhguru is doing through wide-scale systemic influence, exactly because he has had over 30 years to integrate it and manifest it in the real world.

Btw, when I say "prioritizing and understanding the complex interconnections of the Earth-Humanity system", it's a fully articulated systems understanding (like Game B or Fritjof Capra) and not simply an intuitive, heart-based understanding of say Green or Purple. It's more sophisticated than run-of-the-mill environmentalism (e.g. Leonardo DiCaprio or Greta Thunberg). You truly get this while listening to his Joe Rogan appearance.

[thisintegrated]

On 26.3.2022 at 6:09 AM, Carl-Richard said:

Sadhguru and Osho are mystics, so yes, that is what I meant by the previous question.

The way I see it is that "mysticism" (i.e. having a significant propensity towards the "being" aspect of reality) shouldn't be treated as something that is inherent to a particular developmental stage (at least in the case of SD), but instead either as its own developmental domain ("line" in SDi terms) or something that is only softly correlated with higher development.

To elaborate on that last point: if we go by modern Western society, mysticism tends to become more common at Green and up, but again, it's only a soft correlation and not an obligatory step, even for Turquoise. Breaking out of the mono-perspectival mold of scientific materialism (Orange) requires investigating many different perspectives, which by just sheer statistics increases the likelihood of discovering mysticism (of course cognitive flexibility also helps with that process), but still again, it's not a fully stage-dependent trait according to SD.

So how do I define Turquoise then if not "Yellow + mysticism"? I struggled with this question for a while, but Nahm put it in a way that makes sense (paraphrasing with slight modification): "Turquoise is when you take the lessons of Yellow and properly share it with the world." In other words, the lessons of holism, the systems view and unconditional care is properly integrated into your individuality, and then your next job is to integrate this into the collective (as Turquoise is a collectivist stage).

In this sense, Sadhguru is certainly Turquoise. Just look at his global-scale influence of deeply holistic approaches to environmental issues. His new Save Soil project is the pinnacle of Turquoise systems thinking: prioritizing and understanding the complex interconnections of the Earth-Humanity system and distributing this knowledge across several social channels; changing public opinion through mass-scale media appearances on podcasts like Joe Rogan and TV morning shows; changing policy through talks at the UN and various government meetings etc. What the guys at Game B are doing through blog posts, Sadhguru is doing through wide-scale systemic influence, exactly because he has had over 30 years to integrate it and manifest it in the real world.

Btw, when I say "prioritizing and understanding the complex interconnections of the Earth-Humanity system", it's a fully articulated systems understanding (like Game B or Fritjof Capra) and not simply an intuitive, heart-based understanding of say Green or Purple. It's more sophisticated than run-of-the-mill environmentalism (e.g. Leonardo DiCaprio or Greta Thunberg). You truly get this while listening to his Joe Rogan appearance.

I don't really agree that "Turquoise is when you take the lessons of Yellow and properly share it with the world".

Turquoise recognizes that every step is necessary, and that people will come to the right realizations on their own, in time.  Turquoise doesn't feel a need to intervene.  It doesn't want to tell people how to do their jobs.

Sadhguru is Turquoise, but that's not why he's famous.  He's famous because of his personality, energy, and experience.  He enjoys being active and doing stuff.  Not all Turquoises are like this.

 

 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, thisintegrated said:

I don't really agree that "Turquoise is when you take the lessons of Yellow and properly share it with the world".

Turquoise recognizes that every step is necessary, and that people will come to the right realizations on their own, in time.  Turquoise doesn't feel a need to intervene.  It doesn't want to tell people about how to do their jobs.

Sadhguru is Turquoise, but that's not why he's famous.  He's famous because of his personality, energy, and experience.  He enjoys being active and doing stuff.  Not all Turquoises are like this.

That just sounds like a lobotomy. Turquoise is more sophisticated and complex than Yellow on all levels: intellectually, interpersonally, occupationally etc. Whatever principle you're espousing to come to your conclusions doesn't seem to follow the developmental assumptions of firstly just all of structural stage theory in general, but secondly also the specifics of SD(i) as stated by Beck & Cowan (and Wilber): developmental psychology describes the movement from lower to higher levels of complexity, understanding and problem-solving ability, and SD(i) does not marry mysticism with Turquoise (this is in fact what Don Beck himself criticized Leo for mistakenly assuming, which is why you can't find that video on YouTube anymore and why Leo changed his stance).

[thisintegrated]

11 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

That just sounds like a lobotomy. Turquoise is more sophisticated and complex than Yellow on all levels: intellectually, interpersonally, occupationally etc. Whatever principle you're espousing to come to your conclusions doesn't seem to follow the developmental assumptions of firstly just all of structural stage theory in general, but secondly also the specifics of SD(i) as stated by Beck & Cowan (and Wilber): developmental psychology describes the movement from lower to higher levels of complexity, understanding and problem-solving ability, and SD(i) does not marry mysticism with Turquoise (this is in fact what Don Beck himself criticized Leo for mistakenly assuming, which is why you can't find that video on YouTube anymore and why Leo changed his stance).

I don't think Leo changed his stance.  He was asked to remove it or something iirc.

SD isn't so linear.  Green and Yellow aren't richer and more intellectual than Orange.  Orange achieves what it needs, and then moves onto other things.

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, thisintegrated said:

I don't think Leo changed his stance.  He was asked to remove it or something iirc.

You can ask him. He had to, because he wasn't presenting SD but some bastardized interpretation of it.

 

3 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

SD isn't so linear.  Green and Yellow aren't richer and more intellectual than Orange.  Orange achieves what it needs, and moves onto other things.

What are you basing this on?

[thisintegrated]

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You can ask him. He had to, because he wasn't presenting SD but some bastardized interpretation of it.

 

What are you basing this on?

You think Sadhguru/Osho is much more nerdy than.. someone like Orange Elon Musk?  

Turquoise isn't "Yellow, but smarter". It's its own thing.

Edited March 26, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, thisintegrated said:

You think Sadhguru/Osho is much more nerdy than.. something like Elon Musk?  

I don't think "nerdy" is a good construct. I would say they're more cognitively complex (certainly Sadhguru, but I'm not so familiar with Osho). Elon Musk probably has high quantitative intelligence, so he can do many calculations very fast, but the quality of his mind is much simpler. He is an engineer, not a mystic or philosopher.

[thisintegrated]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

I don't think "nerdy" is a good construct. I would say they're more cognitively complex (certainly Sadhguru, but I'm not so familiar with Osho). Elon Musk probably has high quantitative intelligence, so he can do many calculations very fast, but the quality of his mind is much simpler. He is an engineer, not a mystic or philosopher.

Buddhist monks aren't gonna be very complex.  An engineer who thinks and works on hard problems 24/7 is gonna have a more complex and developed intellect than a monk who meditates all the time.

SD isn't a model of the intellect.

[Carl-Richard]

On 26.3.2022 at 6:39 PM, thisintegrated said:

Buddhist monks aren't gonna be very complex.  An engineer who thinks and works on hard problems 24/7 is gonna have a more complex and developed intellect than a monk who meditates all the time.

SD isn't a model of the intellect.

I'm talking about modern day mystics or philosophers who're significantly touched by modern Westernization and have developed past scientific materialism (i.e. Sadhguru). Like I said earlier, mysticism is in the West softly correlated with higher development, but other than that, it should be treated as its own domain. Mystics have existed all throughout history irrespective of cognitive complexity. It's not so much the mysticism itself as the escape from scientific materialism (deconstructing one's worldview) that is indicative of higher development.

[Carl-Richard]

On 26.3.2022 at 7:02 PM, Carl-Richard said:

modern day mystics or philosophers who're significantly touched by modern Westernization and have developed past scientific materialism.

I just found the most perfect example of this:

Rupert Spira is a Western mystic and Bernardo Kastrup is a Western philosopher, and they arrived at the same conclusions (e.g. materialism is baloney) through different means.