The problem with leos pick up advice

[Federico del pueblo]

25 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

But what if even after approaching 1000 girls you still didn't develop any skill for seducing women? What if even with the help of wings your game still sucks?

Are you kidding?

What if after 1000 hours of driving school you still can't drive a car?

[zurew]

53 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

But what if even after approaching 1000 girls you still didn't develop any skill for seducing women? What if even with the help of wings your game still sucks?

You should be developing a ton of intuitive knowing about women by then. Most of the time you won't even think about what to do in certain situations because you went through it tons of times, and you have a lot of experience by then.

Its like if you would ask this:

Can i get better at something, if i gain a ton of experience by doing that particular activity? The answer is obviously, yes.

Experience is always king.

Edited March 26, 2022 by zurew

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

But what if even after approaching 1000 girls you still didn't develop any skill for seducing women? What if even with the help of wings your game still sucks?

Who cares?

You work on your game until the day you die.

[Hardkill]

42 minutes ago, aurum said:

Who cares?

You work on your game until the day you die.

Yeah, but my point is that what if no matter how much you work on your game or even how much coaching or help you get with game that you still never make any significant progress with your skill? Like no matter what you do it just won't click into your head simply because you just don't have the sufficient talent in you to ever make it happen.

There are people out there who have practiced a sport or a musical instrument for years but never could get good at it no matter what they did, which is why they quit after while because they figured that they gave it their best shot for a long enough time and realize that it was best for them to just move on to something else that maybe or hopefully they will have the potential to achieve at least some kind of real success in whatever that might be.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Hardkill

[aurum]

22 hours ago, Valach said:

I think I see what you are hitting onto. I have gone through interesting transformation in pickup, where first I entered as a super weak, unconfident guys and thanks to going out and studying pickup I improved greatly but I also noticed that my relationship to woman became quite dark and I started developing some narcissistic tendencies and I had to pull back a bit and focus on healing myself. I suppose I had shadows around woman from past experiences of feeling left out and unwanted and my ego was overcompensation of low self confidence? I am not clear here yet, since I am still in the process (and possible about to return back to approaching since I still crave experiences and want to develop more). It sometimes feels like going full circle hehe.

 

That’s not really what I was getting at.

I’m uncomfortable with being too critical of Leo. I feel he tends to gets more than enough flack around here. In general I’d like to see more Leo appreciation.

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Are you kidding?

What if after 1000 hours of driving school you still can't drive a car?

There a lot of people out there who have been driving for years but still kinda suck at it. My mom has a lot more total years of experience in driving than I do, and yet she's still not a great driver, while I've have turned out to be an even better driver than her.

[aurum]

10 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Yeah, but my point is that what if no matter how much you work on your game or even how much coaching or help you get with game that you still never make any significant progress with your skill? 

There are people out there who have practiced a sport or a musical instrument for years but never could get good at it no matter what they did, which is why they quit after while because they figured that they gave it their best shot for a long enough time and realize that it was best for them to just move on to something else that maybe or hopefully they will have the potential to achieve at least some kind of real success with whatever that might be.

These are all your fears / limiting beliefs exposing themselves.

I’m refraining from giving you an internet punch in the face.

[Hardkill]

8 minutes ago, aurum said:

These are all your fears / limiting beliefs exposing themselves.

I’m refraining from giving you an internet punch in the face.

Wait, but how exactly is what I am saying are limiting beliefs when in reality a lot of times people do quit practicing some kind of skill or activity because they knew they never had the talent for it? 

I am not trying argue with you just to troll or anything like that. I actually am I hoping that I am wrong, but I am just trying to be practical or realistic about what is possible in a way that makes sense instead of believing in some set of false hopes or have some kind of wishful thinking mindset. We all have aspirations to do the impossible or even become successful at something, but in the real world, sadly a lot of things that we had hoped for or thought that we could achieve don't end up working out.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Hardkill

[Federico del pueblo]

13 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Yeah, but my point is that what if no matter how much you work on your game or even how much coaching or help you get with game that you still never make any significant progress with your skill?

This is just completely unrealistic.

If you practice regularly there's no way you won't make any progress. You might have less progress than someone else, but that doesn't matter.

I mean, do you want us to tell you 'hmm...maybe in your case it's true, maybe you just haven't got it, you know what, you really shouldn't even try.'?

Check for yourself if your fears are stopping you from even starting. 

8 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

There a lot of people out there who have been driving for years but still kinda suck at it. My mom has a lot more total years of experience in driving than I do, and yet she's still not a great driver, while I've have turned out to be an even better driver than her.

Then she's still gotten better at least.

Hey, you really have to adopt some winner mind sets.

It's not 'maybe I'll still suck after 1000 approaches, maybe I shouldn't even try'.

It's 'I'll just give it my best and I'll get as good at this as I can, I believe in myself, I'm gonna make this happen. 

Then when you practice you'll inevitably fail a lot in the beginning ('beginner's hell').

But then you don't go in some black or red pill forum to negatively brain wash yourself, you go to some place like this one and ask for more advice, learn from your mistakes, grow, get better and succeed. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Hardkill You're right, this is a blind spot. You can do a 1000 approaches and still be completely trash with woman relative to your goals. 

Everyone starts at a different baseline, so for some people 1000 approaches may be enough to develop some skill, but for others it won't be enough.

Don't just spam approach mindlessly 1000 times. If you combine pick up with a genuine teaching/approach to self improvement then you can mitigate the risk of doing 1000 approaches only to be sorely disappointed with where you are not with woman 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Hardkill]

6 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Hardkill You're right, this is a blind spot. You can do a 1000 approaches and still be completely trash with woman relative to your goals. 

Everyone starts at a different baseline, so for some people 1000 approaches may be enough to develop some skill, but for others it won't be enough.

Don't just spam approach mindlessly 1000 times. If you combine pick up with a genuine teaching/approach to self improvement then you can mitigate the risk of doing 1000 approaches only to be sorely disappointed with where you are not with woman 

I am still skeptical that even a genuine teaching/approach to self improvement would work for every guy.

I remember this one time when P. Diddy got tried to coach a group of singers. None of them turned out to be good enough or were able to make any significant progress with their skills under his wing despite their best efforts. He got so frustrated to this point where he went like "None of them are getting it! I can't work with any of them anymore! This isn't working..... You can't just teach someone how to be a star or be good at singing or entertaining......You have to really have the raw talent to begin with...."

Edited March 27, 2022 by Hardkill

[Raptorsin7]

@Hardkill It can. If you have the mental capacity to understand the logic of self improvement and you have the ability to function, then you can develop skill with woman.

Human beings are primitive relative to where we can be. So there's so much room for improvement so you can out compete other men and attractive desirable women. Maybe everyone has different ceilings, and maybe some woman will be not be interested no matter how much you improve, but I would bet my life that anyone can develop themselves to a point where they are satisfied with their relationship with woman. 

Attraction is energetic. If you learn to be an desirable energetic magnet for woman, you will be irresistible.

Attraction isn't logical, you can make a woman go crazy for you, when logically she may have never been interested. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Leo Gura]

What if after 12 years of school you still can't tie your shoelaces?

[Loving Radiance]

*Reporting Leo comments as spam*

[puporing]

23 minutes ago, Loving Radiance said:

*Reporting Leo comments as spam*

LOL some kind of glitch happened there... or could it be on purpose... ? nah.

[Ulax]

I will add tho, I think there is a gap in the way Leo teaches pickup.

I think it can be damaging for really traumatised dudes to get into pickup. They need a depth psychotherapy first, imo.

[Karmadhi]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

or most guys they will get laid sooner. It took me about 450 approaches, and I was really bad when I started.

Your standards play a huge role i think also. I think even a bigger role than your "skill". How do you think guys with 0 game still manage to get girls  

[Antor8188]

@Leo Gura you said it took you 400 approaches now you turned it into 450 lol

[Flint]

15 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Yeah, but my point is that what if no matter how much you work on your game or even how much coaching or help you get with game that you still never make any significant progress with your skill? Like no matter what you do it just won't click into your head simply because you just don't have the sufficient talent in you to ever make it happen.

It looks to me like you're just looking for a justification not to do it - trying to dismiss it since it would yield no results. 

If you're actually working on your game it's basically impossible not to make progress : even on a baby step level, talking to girls vs not talking to girls is a huge step forward.

Imagine you've gone from sitting at home to having a 10 minute conversation with a girl at a party ? Good, something to learn here. This is like in the worst absolute case, like if you were a completely unsocialized hard case who has never seen the light of day, if you were able to go through a schooling process you ARE able to learn enough skills, social skills, how to dress, etc. to approach at a party and have a ten minute conversation.

Even if it's very awkward at first you have gotten new feedback and experience and you can retrospect on it. Then, once you get other types of feedback, e.g. a kiss, you have managed to create attraction from scratch with a complete stranger. This proves to you directly it can be done. If you put in the work, step by step, it can only be a upwards spiral.

Forget about your number of approaches, focus on taking consistent action and introspecting. The rest is noise. Consistent action is the actual difficult part. If you can go out and follow trough the steps you will improve. What should worry you is NOT TAKING ACTION.

[something_else]

8 hours ago, Antor8188 said:

@Leo Gura you said it took you 400 approaches now you turned it into 450 lol

I like that this is all you took from that comment

Dude, you’re looking for excuses, I’m sorry

I know it’s scary. It feels like it would take so much time and effort to attract girls. But it’s not as bad as it seems

And it’s certainly better than the alternative of sitting alone in your room forever