Throwing away Zen mind

[Barna]

Quote

Throwing away Zen mind is correct Zen mind. 

Only keep the question 'What is the best way of helping other people? 

~ Zen Master Seung Sahn

That's it. That's the post.

[nistake]

Because if you help others, you help yourself.

(Just to short-circuit another 15 pages long solipsism debate )

[Barna]

Don't worry, I don't solipsize

Wasn't that illegal here? 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Barna

[Inliytened1]

6 hours ago, Barna said:

That's it. That's the post.

Here's something  for you and the Zen Master.  Don't demonize the Mind.     Indeed the egoic finite mind should be quieted in order to align with Truth but Mind itself - Gods Mind - your Mind - and understanding, should not be thrown away.  Don't toss the baby out when you flush the bathwater. 

[VeganAwake]

Definitely toss out the baby with the bathwater, smash the bathtub and burn the house down.

Only emptiness can see clear!

For the ego there's always something else that needs to occur.

Ego can't fathom that reality is already perfection and complete freedom for no one. Because of course that would be its demise!

? ❤ 

 

[Barna]

57 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Here's something  for you and the Zen Master.  Don't demonize the Mind.     Indeed the egoic finite mind should be quieted in order to align with Truth but Mind itself - Gods Mind - your Mind - and understanding, should not be thrown away.  Don't toss the baby out when you flush the bathwater. 

I don't demonize the mind. I'm a developer, I love my mind, it works hard to earn my salary

And I don't have a Zen master, I've found this quote on Twitter ?

What I meant, is that all the spiritual perspective is useless in the long run if you don't spend your time/energy into helping others

[Inliytened1]

23 minutes ago, Barna said:

I don't demonize the mind. I'm a developer, I love my mind, it works hard to earn my salary

And I don't have a Zen master, I've found this quote on Twitter ?

What I meant, is that all the spiritual perspective is useless in the long run if you don't spend your time/energy into helping others

Agreed ?

[Barna]

27 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Definitely toss out the baby with the bathwater, smash the bathtub and burn the house down.

Only emptiness can see clear!

For the ego there's always something else that needs to occur.

Ego can't fathom that reality is already perfection and complete freedom for no one. Because of course that would be its demise!

? ❤ 

 

Well, as Ken Wilber explains, we can differentiate between structure and state development. Your everyday personality and worldview depend on your personality structure. The level of mindlessness you "achieve" during meditation depends on your meditative state. 

In everyday life, we need a developed mind that grants us a developed personality structure. But during meditation, we need to develop our ability to silence the mind so that we can reach higher states, and bring back the lessons and wisdom from these states into our everyday life. 

[VeganAwake]

@Barna  What was being pointed to is the so-called "higher state" is the recognition there is no such thing as a higher or lower state.

Higher or lower states are just concepts within the ego's dream story.

That being said there is absolutely nothing right or wrong with making the world a better place and helping others.

The apparent problem is the ego turns helping others into another task or goal of getting what it thinks is missing. It never actually finds fulfillment because IT'S the very experience of separation or lack.

The ego is a vicious taskmaster and simultaneously there's no need to demonize it because it's not even real....it's an illusion of self!!

❤ 

 

[Barna]

I understand what you're saying. But let's do a mental experiment. Let's say that you get enlightened right here right now. No ego anymore, and the concepts of past and future lose their validity. So practically speaking, what do you do in the next months? Will you just lay in bed all day because there's nothing to do, no one to fulfill? 

For me, this doesn't look like healthy enlightenment. This looks like a rushed enlightenment followed by a mental breakdown.
Some people are rushing so much to get enlightened that they totally forget about their structural development and mental health.

So basically what you're saying here is useless. The Absolute doesn't need this information to be absolute. And the ego doesn't need this information because it cannot use it for anything. So, what motivates you to tell me this?

[Zeroguy]

There is no enlightened person there is only enlightened activity.

Reminded by someone of this truth.

[Barna]

5 minutes ago, Zeroguy said:

There is no enlightened person there is only enlightened activity.

Reminded by someone of this truth.

A beautiful way to put it.  

[VeganAwake]

23 minutes ago, Barna said:

I understand what you're saying. But let's do a mental experiment. Let's say that you get enlightened right here right now. No ego anymore, and the concepts of past and future lose their validity.

There isn't something called an ego and then a different something called a you....you = ego

And the radical part is, there already isn't an ego/you. It's already the case.

 

So practically speaking, what do you do in the next months? Will you just lay in bed all day because there's nothing to do, no one to fulfill? 

Anything's possible, it's fair game. It seems that most continue chopping wood and carrying water to earn money and support the family if they have one or whatever. The biggest thing is there's no longer any seeking.

For me, this doesn't look like healthy enlightenment.

There isn't a you already. It's only societal conditioning that judges things as healthy or unhealthy.

This looks like a rushed enlightenment followed by a mental breakdown.

Yes it seems like that occurs a lot on this forum. 

Here there wasn't a concept or belief held about what enlightenment was or was not.... it was just clearly recognized that the individual that was trying to find a better experience in the future was completely unreal.... it actually felt like a huge weight lifted off the shoulders as opposed to a mental breakdown.

Some people are rushing so much to get enlightened that they totally forget about their structural development and mental health.

Agreed

So basically what you're saying here is useless.

Yes, completely useless in the sense that it's not a something for a someone. Nobody becomes enlightened.

Although it can sometimes seem to loosen up the tightly-wound sense of self and it can start to unravel. 

The Absolute doesn't need this information to be absolute.

Exactly and simultaneously this communication is occurring within the absolute. It's not something separate from it.

And the ego doesn't need this information because it cannot use it for anything.

Exactly, the ego hates this communication because it denies its existence. 

So, what motivates you to tell me this?

Because the experience of being a desperate seeker was often exciting but mostly exhausting and never rendered any lasting results. Oh and because why not, nothing matters anyways. ? 

❤ 

 

 

 

[Barna]

But who said anything about seeking? Why do you assume that orienting your daily activities (so that you don't waste all your time) has anything to do with seeking? Why do you assume that the intelligence that tries to manage your life (you call it ego) is an illusion? Why don't you want to work with this intelligence for the benefit of all?

I also had this "There's no one here, nothing to do" period in my life. But looking back, it just feels like it was sustained by sheer laziness. 

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Barna said:

But who said anything about seeking?

No one did that's already been explained. There isn't a real individual inside that body or this body.....it's an illusion of self!

Why do you assume that orienting your daily activities (so that you don't waste all your time) has anything to do with seeking?

Why do you assume it doesn't?

Why do you assume that the intelligence that tries to manage your life (you call it ego) is an illusion?

Why do you assume that it's not?

Why don't you want to work with this intelligence for the benefit of all?

As I already said, there's nothing right or wrong with helping people & trying to make the world a better place. Why not!

I served in the military for 20 years going all around the world doing different humanitarian missions & I often volunteer down the street at the Salvation Army.

The point was the ego is a guilt trip machine & it will never be satisfied.... it will always say you're not doing enough which will create guilt and the experience of lack & separation.

I also had this "There's no one here, nothing to do" period in my life. But looking back, it just feels like it was sustained by sheer laziness. 

It probably was, sounds about right, just another attempt by the ego to try to get what it thinks it wants (detachment) .... and that was just what was being experienced there, it was whole, complete and perfect.

None of which has anything to do with the recognition that is being pointed to.

Apparent reality is in complete perfect balance. 

The only thing that would say otherwise is the socially conditioned mind often referred to as the ego or sense of self.

This is the kingdom of heaven; This is freedom; This is enlightenment already....it's not somewhere else!

❤ 

 

 

[Barna]

So, after your enlightenment, you're not able to talk about practicalities anymore because you judge that as part of the seeking? 

Do you have a main direction in life? Or is your life a series of haphazard actions?

I mean, even if it's all an illusion, it's still worth playing with it, and playing the best game you've got. Otherwise, what are you even doing on Earth? It's like going to Disneyland just to sit on the grass and meditate. Sure, you can do that, and you would probably enjoy that, but it still seems like a waste of opportunity, it seems like a lack of love for the illusion.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Barna

[Zero my Hero]

14 hours ago, Zeroguy said:

There is no enlightened person there is only enlightened activity.

Reminded by someone of this truth.

@Zeroguy Gods are watching you

[Barna]

Wtf @Zeroguy, you joined only a year ago but you already have 4k+ posts and your own sect?!

 

[Zeroguy]

1 hour ago, Barna said:

Wtf @Zeroguy, you joined only a year ago but you already have 4k+ posts and your own sect?!

 

Start up idea ,jk.

Much Love.

[Zeroguy]

@Barna Only you can awaken and only you can transform.