Should i just settle for average/below average girls? Confused, need advice

[Karmadhi]

Hey guys. I am making this post because i am honestly tired with treated like garbage by girls, like i do not exist and being ruthlessly punished by the slightest mistake i make. I see guys that legit have nothing more than me get laid or have girlfriends but when it comes to me, no girl wants more with me than a first date (if i even get that). At first i thought it was my looks, i tried to improve it (workout and get in great shape, good cologne, good clothes, haircut, gromming etc). I also though it was my personality (tried to improve my humour, flirting, charisma, expressiveness etc). None worked more than a make out or a first date. None made me relationship material or a girl wanting to love me or seriously date me. Having a healthy circle of both male and female friends, life purpose, hobbies, knowledge of a lot of different things, integrity and uplifting others did not help much either (outside being good friend material).

Should i just try to go for average or below average looking girls? I just want to be feel desired and loved by someone for once. It is something all my friends have experienced at least once if not multiple times (even if they did not eventually get with those people) but i basically never experienced it. What should i do? I feel like there is nothing wrong with me but at the same time what i have experienced shows me there definetly is. I know guys less confident than me, more logical than me, more serious than me, less social than me, less interesting or kind than me that still got at least 1 girl to love them. Should i just try to go for girls no one wants to date? I know society's "standards" for what makes a girl "valuable" are totally fucked up and basically focus on appearnaces but that does not show anything regarding the person inside. Maybe one of those meh looking girls is a great person inside that just wants to be loved by someone and never got it due to society focusing on the hot girls? Maybe such a girl could love me? I am confused. I need advice please.

PS: I have been going out on dates with girls on the last 6 months and outside improving my dating skills to the point where i can get semi consistantly a make out at the end of the date, nothing else changed much. My "game" got better but the girl's desire to properly date me did not improve much and i was always punished really harshly for the slightest mistake. I really doubt every single couple out there, the guy never made ANY mistakes during the whole courting process.

[Roy]

This post will probably trigger the women who read this, but I am going to say it anyways and be honest for your benefit since I've seen you post about these issues a lot before in this sub forum.

Look, you need to be brutally honest about what league you are currently in and your own standards for who you will/won't pursue. If you want to have the highest realistic chances of getting a girlfriend you need to go after girls who are a whole step "lower" than you. Hypergamy is a real and active thing in our society unfortunately, anyone who denies it is coping/ignorant/delusional. Most girls want someone who is much better and higher value than them - Whether it's because they want to feel super secure and protected physically or emotionally, or to be with someone who secures a lot of resources, or simply because they subconsciously want to feel like a little girl again with an authoritative father like figure around. If a woman feels you are her equal or she is "better" than you, the odds (probably) aren't in your favor for a long term relationship and it will be difficult to lock her down. Even if you manage to become a charming pick-up player and master attraction, it's only a matter of time before they might leave or refuse to even invest in something long term.

Sadly it's just the point we are at in our material culture we're in. It goes the way of being MUCH more brutal and unforgiving to guys because we obviously can't help ourselves but to drive up the demand, while they hold all the supply, which puts them in a much better bargaining position of picking and choosing, and since most people are unconscious and selfish they will exploit that position to date up. Of course this DOES NOT mean that you can't find exceptions to the rule of the reverse roles being the case, where the woman is higher value. Or the many couples where they are about equal. It's just not the norm though. You are going to have your own unique personal experiences that will break the cultural tide you're in and make you realize sometimes it's not as stark as it seems. However does it make sense to base your strategy around exceptions and to be fighting the wave that most people are being carried by? The answer is no.

The circumstances are harsh, and it sucks that we have to play these shallow games. But if you don't try to understand, accept the rules, and play the game - You will not get laid, and you definitely will not get a girlfriend.

I personally think if you're a moderately successful, normal guy, you are wasting your fucking time chasing "9's and 10's". You are falling for a trap, and chasing an illusion sold to you by your peers. It's called diminishing returns, like an idiot you are putting in egregious amounts of work for what amounts to little benefit. You might get to sleep with them now and then, but it won't make you happy and you'll never be satisfied since you'll just be chasing and chasing, for the next hit.

So yeah, just keep working on yourself and go for the normal girl, whatever that means for you.

[Karmadhi]

@Roy I already have tried to raise my "value", it is never enough. What more can i do?

I already go for girls around my league, never for proper hot girls. Just decent girls, i am a decent guy also. I am not ugly nor stupid nor socially akward.

Just talk to girls over and over again and go through 1000 heartbreaks until 1 finally goes well? Is this what dating is like for a man? 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Karmadhi

[Roy]

Just now, Karmadhi said:

I already have tried to raise my "value", it is never enough.

Maybe you haven't raised your value as much as you thought? I'm not accusing you of anything by the way, it's not like I don't believe that you as I don't think you have a reason to lie to me. I do think we have reasons to lie to ourselves though.

2 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

What more can i do?

Lower your standards. Stop willfully eating the bullshit that most other men are feeding you, including Leo.

4 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Just talk to girls over and over again and go through 1000 heartbreaks until 1 finally goes well?

LOL yup, welcome to the game. When that 1/1000 finally goes well you will forget everything else. And it really isn't 1/1000. It's more like 1/50 once you start to get the hang of things.

[Karmadhi]

6 minutes ago, Roy said:

Maybe you haven't raised your value as much as you thought? I'm not accusing you of anything by the way, it's not like I don't believe that you as I don't think you have a reason to lie to me. I do think we have reasons to lie to ourselves though.

I am not saying i am the best guy out there. However i can confidently say that i see guys that have nothing more than me still get some results with girls but i do not. Of course there are guys that are higher value than me but i get results of a 0 value guy and i geniounly think i am more than that.

7 minutes ago, Roy said:

Lower your standards. Stop willfully eating the bullshit that most other men are feeding you, including Leo.

My standards are very realistic. I do not go for hot girls. I go for cute/decent looking girls. Girls around my looks level, my intelligence level, my social skills level, my ambition level, my confidence level. I do not go for the top girls. Decent would be the best word of what i go for which is also what i probably am. Decent would be a 6/10 if i have to use that annoying numeric scale.

9 minutes ago, Roy said:

LOL yup, welcome to the game. When that 1/1000 finally goes well you will forget everything else. And it really isn't 1/1000. It's more like 1/50 once you start to get the hang of things.

When i say 1/1000 i am not talking about approaching and just talking to a girl. I am talking about talking to a girl multiple times and more honestly, going out with her. I have never seen a guy needing 50 dates with a girl to get that girl properly interested in him for long term dating.

[Roy]

5 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

However i can confidently say that i see guys that have nothing more than me still get some results with girls but i do not.

I would have to be more familiar with particular experiences you've had, but I would guess is there is some mistake you are making or some miscommunication you are sending during that fragile phase that is making girls question themselves with you.

[puporing]

What I've discovered is that it's not just about those things. You are prob vibrating on a different plane than most, and thus ideally you want to find someone also vibrating on that plane. This may be one of the reasons it seems harder for you than it may be for others - and the many rejections and heartbreaks. It is not just a matter of external factors. The thing is even if you did get a sweet or hot girl lets say, if you don't vibrate on a similar plane it won't feel very good for long. But that's just my experience. Maybe you'd be good with just a relief for once.

Edited March 25, 2022 by puporing

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Hey guys. I am making this post because i am honestly tired with treated like garbage by girls, like i do not exist and being ruthlessly punished by the slightest mistake i make. I see guys that legit have nothing more than me get laid or have girlfriends but when it comes to me, no girl wants more with me than a first date (if i even get that). At first i thought it was my looks, i tried to improve it (workout and get in great shape, good cologne, good clothes, haircut, gromming etc). I also though it was my personality (tried to improve my humour, flirting, charisma, expressiveness etc). None worked more than a make out or a first date. None made me relationship material or a girl wanting to love me or seriously date me. Having a healthy circle of both male and female friends, life purpose, hobbies, knowledge of a lot of different things, integrity and uplifting others did not help much either (outside being good friend material).

Should i just try to go for average or below average looking girls? I just want to be feel desired and loved by someone for once. It is something all my friends have experienced at least once if not multiple times (even if they did not eventually get with those people) but i basically never experienced it. What should i do? I feel like there is nothing wrong with me but at the same time what i have experienced shows me there definetly is. I know guys less confident than me, more logical than me, more serious than me, less social than me, less interesting or kind than me that still got at least 1 girl to love them. Should i just try to go for girls no one wants to date? I know society's "standards" for what makes a girl "valuable" are totally fucked up and basically focus on appearnaces but that does not show anything regarding the person inside. Maybe one of those meh looking girls is a great person inside that just wants to be loved by someone and never got it due to society focusing on the hot girls? Maybe such a girl could love me? I am confused. I need advice please.

PS: I have been going out on dates with girls on the last 6 months and outside improving my dating skills to the point where i can get semi consistantly a make out at the end of the date, nothing else changed much. My "game" got better but the girl's desire to properly date me did not improve much and i was always punished really harshly for the slightest mistake. I really doubt every single couple out there, the guy never made ANY mistakes during the whole courting process.

Welcome to the Red Pill, what you do not realize is that pretty much everything you have learned about women and men should basically be thrown out the window. I am sorry to tell you but society has failed you. It has failed to teach you how hypergamy actually works, and it has also failed you by teaching your female counterpart "lies" about you also and the divide and issues you are experiencing are a large interconnection of feminism, media, and cultures all creating a division.

Truthfully if you want a QUICK solution...date outside your country where the country is MORE traditional and where you would be considered wealthier. The truth of the matter is women are attracted to men they believe are smarter, stronger, and more reliable than they are. Now understand what I just said "BELIEVE." You could be more capable than a women you know, if she BELIEVES you ARE NOT she will not desire you long-term.

Here are a couple of key factors

1. The foundation of all attraction between men and women is the BODY game. This is non-negotiable. The more attractive a woman finds you PHYSICALLY the LESS you have to do EMOTIONALLY to maintain attraction. 

2. The next foundation is how you make her FEEL both physically and emotionally. Majority of your time with a woman will be OUTSIDE of SEX. So you need to stimulate her emotionally. The various ways you can are intellectually, you can entertain her with jokes, you can create low end drama (acting cocky), you can be a good listener. How you make her feel physically has to do with things like touch, scent, and obviously how well the Sex is. Now here is the KEY Point I need to add here. The Foundation of all attraction is the body game, but the foundation of SUSTAINED attraction between men and women in a sexual relationship is FOUND HERE. If you do all the above mentioned and HIT HER SPOTS RIGHT SEXUALLY SHE WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU. Now with that said you have NO CONTROL on if she will leave you because depending on what information she takes in on a daily basis her surrounding environment could tell her that you are a loser, and if she believes it she will drop you faster than a bad T.V. series.

3. Here is another secret....and it is an annoying one. Women classify Men into 2 main categories Friend and Lover. Since you want a long-term relationship you need to have aspects of both. The PROBLEM is these two categories actually are counteractive and you must BALANCE them to sustain a relationship. 

Friendship characteristics are qualities that make her feel emotionally safe and connected with you. Lover characteristics are qualities that make her feel anxious and unsure of herself, and make her look UP to you. So understand how paradoxical this is. To be a friend you need a person to feel like they know you, understand you, and connected to you. To be considered Sexually Seductive you need to be mysterious, confusing, and unattached.

If a woman feels like she completely understands you, the mystery is over and so is the sexual attraction. If a woman feels like she cannot connect with you eventually all you become is a dick call for services. Understand that a woman's male best friends will know her BETTER than you as she will always want to look her best for the man that excites her. So its a thin line you must walk.

Before that though read the Book, Nice Guy and Players by Rom Wills that breaks down how women think.

There is a book that can teach you how to operate with maintaining attraction with woman called Atomic Attraction.

4. Here is the most important. To have the most success with women in dating you need to have an ABUNDANCE mentality. The kryptonite for most men is getting attached to one woman. Don't it is the quickest route to wasting your time. Next is finding women who understand the REAL point of what a long-term sexual relationship is. For that to happen YOU MUST UNDERSTAND what a long-term sexual relationship is.

Here are things it is NOT.

1. It is NOT something you enter in to FEEL COMPLETE. If you DO NOT FEEL COMPLETE BY YOURSELF YOU WILL FAIL IN EVERY LONG-TERM SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP YOU ENTER INTO. Sadly society has bred women to be shoppers of experience so most do not feel complete. 

2. It is NOT something you enter without the desire to grow. If you are not in it to grow and develop DO NOT WASTE THEIR OR YOUR TIME.

3. It is the merging of two lives so both must be focused on the relationship itself working... NOT ON WHAT YOU INDIVIDUALLY WANT. Always think in terms of what is best for the RELATIONSHIP NOT what is best for you.

4. You both will need to learn to be INTERDEPENDENT. Independent but also comfortable relying on another person and cooperating to get things done. This is much harder for most since our society has taught us, especially the women to be INDEPENDENT.

Good Luck!!!

 

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

@Roy I already have tried to raise my "value", it is never enough. What more can i do?

I already go for girls around my league, never for proper hot girls. Just decent girls, i am a decent guy also. I am not ugly nor stupid nor socially akward.

Just talk to girls over and over again and go through 1000 heartbreaks until 1 finally goes well? Is this what dating is like for a man? 

1. The biggest fallacy is that there is a league. Women are shoppers of experience. There is NOT one trait that puts a man over another as every woman has a preference and all her preferences are just lies given to her by her environment. What a woman continually chases is EXPERIENCE!!! You could get Halle Berry in her prime addicted to you if you can provide her with the experience she is searching for. This is the BIGGEST SECRET most men do not realize!!! Stop being so got damn logical, women primarily operate from emotion. They are only logical in their evaluation of you but their experience of you trumps that evaluation!!!

Here are the key skills to get any woman.

1. Know how to approach her that makes her receptive. If you want a specific woman you need to know when the RIGHT time to approach her is. Some men like to walk by a woman they like multiple times for weeks on end before they approach her. Women like familiarity and women are ALWAYS watching you. They are ridiculously perceptive of EVERYTHING you do.

2. Master how to get her to warm up in your presence. The better your talking game the better she will open up.

3. Become a master in the bedroom. This is the MOST IMPORTANT POINT. Most women rarely achieve orgasm and the ones that do STILL don't get the sex they PREFER. The better you are at satisfying her sexually the easier it is for EVERTHING ELSE.

4. Achieve the best look, smell, and attitude you can have and always display it around her. Women fall in love with the IDEA of you, not YOU specifically. Its tough to handle, but as long as you provide her with the experience she desires....she will never leave you, unless of course she has emotional damage that is unresolved....then she may leave you because she feels unworthy but that is a whole other topic.

But there are NO LEAGUES!!! Any man can pull a pretty girl, I use to think the same thing until I pulled one. Any guy that tells you there are leagues is LYING. Now there ARE high maintenance girls and most pretty girls are, but even then there are still ones who are NOT. Its a numbers game.

 

 

 

[RMQualtrough]

Unattractive men trying to date models is like an obese ugly chick refusing to date anyone but male models. It's very unlikely to work. You'd need to hit it off really well, usually be in the same social circle too.

If the girls in your league are too ugly, just stay single. I've always been single, when I dated anyone I'd just dip after a few weeks. Being single is good IMO.

[Spence94]

2 hours ago, puporing said:

What I've discovered is that it's not just about those things. You are prob vibrating on a different plane than most, and thus ideally you want to find someone also vibrating on that plane. This may be one of the reasons it seems harder for you than it may be for others - and the many rejections and heartbreaks. It is not just a matter of external factors. The thing is even if you did get a sweet or hot girl lets say, if you don't vibrate on a similar plane it won't feel very good for long. But that's just my experience. Maybe you'd be good with just a relief for once.

I also think there is truth in this statement. Different wavelengths often make things difficult.

Inner growth will greatly effect your dating and relationship life both in the sense it will make you incompatible with many women but will also allow you to be more authentically attractive and attract compatible partners. I think overall the benefits of internal growth for yourSelf and your relationships outweigh the drawbacks of also being incompatible with the majority of people you meet. 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Spence94

[integral]

it's that you're not good at making them feel like you have a deep connection. Pay close attention to how they are experiencing you and gameFly that. 

Not just with dating but with all human interactions, get deep, cut the route of things, small talk is a filler or a platform to then pick and probe deeper.

Make everyone feel special, make them feel like you understand them and you want to understand them, make them feel like they can talk to you about anything. 

This is a lot easier done when your survival conditions as a child forced you to adapt to your parents emotional needs and you became responsible and highly sensitive to how your parents experienced you because not doing so meant a negative outcome. Do and say things in a way to tailor's to that person's needs. To  have this childhood would give you all the tools you need to connect with someone extremely fast. 

They call these people empaths, all it is is a childhood survival adaptation  that made the person hyper sensitive to other people's perspective.

Speak to people like they are your long lost best friend, it shouldn't be too serious but there should always be intimacy in the conversation. 

Edited March 25, 2022 by integral

[something_else]

Out of curiosity, how many new girls do you meet on a weekly basis?

[Karmadhi]

3 hours ago, something_else said:

Out of curiosity, how many new girls do you meet on a weekly basis?

Really depends on what i am doing at the moment. However what makes me feel bad is not a girl that i just meet and does not agree to go out with me or anything. That matters little to me because i know it is super normal and happens even to the best guys.

What makes me feel bad is to go out on a date with someone and then get ghosted/friendzoned or at least talk with them quite a bit with intention of meeting up for a date but nothing happening. 

4 hours ago, integral said:

it's that you're not good at making them feel like you have a deep connection. Pay close attention to how they are experiencing you and gameFly that. 

Not just with dating but with all human interactions, get deep, cut the route of things, small talk is a filler or a platform to then pick and probe deeper.

I am very empathetic and i make girls feel super close to me. I have had great success in that regard, however it is usually friendly shit which leads to me being a good friend, not someone they would want to be romantically with.

 

4 hours ago, Something Funny said:

Also, btw, have you thought about hiring a dating coach since you seem to be struggling with this for a long time? Seems like a good way to take care of a problem. I think that advice on a forum has its limits, since nobody here can tell what's really going on in your life. It would be nice to have someone experienced in this area learn in depth about your situation, maybe even observe your dates and approaches, and then give you advice.

I do not have the money atm but might when i start working. I feel like i know enough dating theory, more than 95 percent of guys. The issue lies somewhere else.

 

7 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Here are a couple of key factors

Thanks for the long list. Helpful!

 

I think i will start doing some daygame on top of what i usually do normally (social stuff and also will try online game with my new pro pics). Maybe daygame twice a week and then also when i am out and about doing my everydayshit, especially now that the weather is getting better and it is warm. I will aim for 10-15 approaches a week usually when i am out and about doing other shit ( i am an active and social person and i often notice a nice girl when im about doing my shit). It should be around 600 girls in a year. If that does not help me than nothing in the world will.

[something_else]

4 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Really depends on what i am doing at the moment. However what makes me feel bad is not a girl that i just meet and does not agree to go out with me or anything. That matters little to me because i know it is super normal and happens even to the best guys.

What makes me feel bad is to go out on a date with someone and then get ghosted/friendzoned or at least talk with them quite a bit with intention of meeting up for a date but nothing happening. 

The fact you can't even come up with an estimate suggests that it is extremely low and inconsistent

If you're not consistently talking to and hitting on even 5 new girls a week you have exactly zero things to be complaining about because the problem is obvious

Of course you'll get friendzoned if you are only talking romantically to such a small number of girls

[Raze]

Try the free videos here http://davidtianphd.com/masterclass-content/

read way of the superior man and models by Mark Manson 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Raze

[Jacob Morres]

There's nothing inherently wrong with you brother I can promise you that 

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19wDKBoT2zU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MEYs1V6V-E

 

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

The fact you can't even come up with an estimate suggests that it is extremely low and inconsistent

If you're not consistently talking to and hitting on even 5 new girls a week you have exactly zero things to be complaining about because the problem is obvious

Of course you'll get friendzoned if you are only talking romantically to such a small number of girls

Yes i do what 95 percent of guys do and they all get results and i do not. You think 90 percent of guys talk to 5 new girls a week? I am not saying it is not a solution but it is an extreme measure to take which already shows there is something seriously wrong with you.

As i said i will try to though.

[Karmadhi]

2 hours ago, Raze said:

read way of the superior man and models by Mark Manson 

Good stuff but already read them. Helpful but not enough

@Raze I have actually been friendzoned even if i was more agressive and made moves and shit. Not just from being overly passive which makes total sense.

2 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

There's nothing inherently wrong with you brother I can promise you that 

Thanks man, i also feel the same.