How to prevent/reverse further tooth decay?

[Phil King]

Im 20 years old and have had about 10 cavities filled (not mercury thank god) yet Ive never had tooth pain in my life. The causes of my cavities are poor genetics (everyone in my family has shit teeth), periods of poor diet and soda, and acidic medicine that I had to take when I was younger for my asthma (I dont take it anymore).

Im going to the dentists soon for a cleaning and since I havent been there in a couple years I suspect he will find some cavities.

What are things I should avoid to prevent further tooth decay and what are things I could start doing besides brushing that would help reverse it. My teeth look fine, maybe slight yellowing but they never hurt except when the dentist is drilling them. Also does anybody have any "new age" or unorthodox techniques. Currently ive been rubbing tooth paste on my teeth and gums and leaving it on overnight and my teeth look a little whiter.

[aurum]

@Phil King

Biggest difference I’ve found was diet. If you don’t eat acidic foods that disrupt your oral microbiome, that will go a long way.

I’ve also been following the system outlined in this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Kiss-Your-Dentist-Goodbye-Yourself-ebook/dp/B009LPLMRU/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=21SOWDYO471W2&keywords=ellie+dentist&qid=1647923633&sprefix=ellie+deni%2Caps%2C448&sr=8-3
 

She’s a periodontist with I think a good balanced perspective. Not too woo-woo, but not stuck in the dogma of dental medicine from 50 years ago either. Her system might be overkill but it seems like it’s working great for me. My teeth and gums look much healthier than when I started.

[Preety_India]

Drink lots of water. 

Eat oranges, apples and blueberries. Good for reducing tooth decay

[Michael569]

Brushing is not enough, you need to be flossing and tongue scraping too, each of them twice a day. An electrical rotational brush is preferable to the regular one but you gotta keep it easy so that you don't irritate the gums. At the end of tongue scraping you could also add oral probiotic mouthwash to start replacing the tongue microbiome. It is preferable you do not use fluoride-free toothpaste. 

Secondly, oral microbiome care (as mentioned by @aurum ) is absolutely essential and this is equivalent of taking care of your gut microbiome to prevent gastrointestinal disease. So the elimination of everything that harms it is an absolute must. I did 3-part blog series on dental health series where I went very in-depth on the topic of oral health and oral microbiome, you can check those here if you're interested. Also got a Youtube video on this topic (second link in signature) 

Now in terms of antibacterial mouthwashes, I would like to get an opinion on someone more versed in oral microbiome research but I don't think they are a good thing to do. Not all bacteria in our mouth is bad, in fact, the last thing you want to do is damage that delicate balance and give opportunity for pathogenic bacteria from those inflamed pockets to spread. 

And of course, diet as mentioned above is super critical. Diet high in plants especially fruits and vegetables is protective against periodontal disease and periodontitis whereas a diet high in refined carbohydrates, saturated fats and fizzy drinks is super harmful. Avoid all sticky food, all candy that sticks to your teeth like glue and any of that stuff. 

Definitely start with the dentist and also the hygienist. Get those cavities tended to and cleaned. But once that is done also get interdental spaces cleaned, any periodontal pockets cleaned and also plaque removed by the hygienist. Once you are at that stage commit to lifelong bulletproof dental hygiene which includes a meticulous cleaning routine, clean diet and the elimination of junk food. 

The risk is that if you don't and you let it rot, it may impact your heart, your lungs, your gut and your brain over time. Whatever it costs, definitely get it fixed with absolute priority. 

btw don't worry about whitening at this stage. A lot of that yellowing is pigmentation. Removing those infected pockets is a priority, whitening is just a cosmetic thing that often comes naturally with improved hygiene but I definitely wouldn't use any whitening chemicals overnight as you may harm the enamel layer not to mention you will be ingesting that stuff overnight too. 

Good luck 

[Phil King]

@aurum @Preety_India @Michael569

Thankyou guys. I will be commiting myself to a cleaner diet, removing soda, and sticking to a rigorous teeth cleaning routine. 

I will miss sour patch kids tho. I read those types of sticky candies are the worst for cavities but it will be worth it in the long run.

[Kshantivadin]

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

The risk is that if you don't and you let it rot, it may impact your heart, your lungs, your gut and your brain over time. Whatever it costs, definitely get it fixed with absolute priority. 

Can you expound on this a little bit more? Thank you.

[Michael569]

59 minutes ago, Kshantivadin said:

Can you expound on this a little bit more? Thank you.

in epidemiology, there has been an association with things like infective endocarditis, pneumonia and I believe to a degree even type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome with periodontal disease, not as much with ALzheimer's (also some studies show potential association as well)  What this means is that people who have a high degree of chronic periodontal infection & inflammation are at higher risk of it contributing to the development of the above. It is not causative as in "periodontal disease causes diabetes", that is an impossible causation to make but there is probably a very strong relationship there. 

It has also been found that once people with diabetes for example had their oral health fixed and those periodontal pockets cleaned, their blood sugar markers (at least in a small amount of studies) have improved to a degree which suggests that at least partially that there is a correlation. At the same time not all people with diabetes, pneumonia or Infective endocarditis will have any oral/dental health issue but it is always worth checking. 

I went quite deep into these things in the second blog post (I linked it in the previous post) worth reading if you're interested in this. 

Some of the proposed mechanisms were: 

• bacterial transmigration through the bloodstream 
• bacterial transmigration through the gastrointestinal system (once swallowed in large amounts) - although I don't know to what degree this is an issue unless there are other, more severe, disruptions of the upper GIT going on as well. But could probably contribute to digestive issues this way 
• with diabetes, it is probably that poorly regulated blood sugar destroys the microvasculature around the gums and make teeth more susceptible to infection but I'd need to check this deeper to confirm. 
• the brain-oral health link is more difficult to make. Studies on this are all over the place and a potential mechanism would have to include weakened integrity of the blood-brain barrier for the circulating bacteria to get in there...but it is not something that is completely unrealistic (but this is just mechanistic speculation) , there is now evena  term called "brain microbiome" for which we have very little data so far as an indication of presence of bacteria in the brain that should not be there....for now we can only guess what that means and where they came from but a disrupted BBB would be one of the suspected mechanisms, other would be bacteria somehow highjacking transpoters that can get in but again here we are in the realm of speculative fuckery once again. 

All of this would require an input of a specialist to confirm - I'm sure @undeather could elaborate on this way more in terms of how could poor dental health affect the rest of the body. 

Long story short: if you got infected gums, get it fixed regardless of the cost  The sooner the better. 

[somegirl]

4 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Brushing is not enough, you need to be flossing and tongue scraping too, each of them twice a day. An electrical rotational brush is preferable to the regular one but you gotta keep it easy so that you don't irritate the gums. At the end of tongue scraping you could also add oral probiotic mouthwash to start replacing the tongue microbiome. It is preferable you do not use fluoride-free toothpaste. 

Secondly, oral microbiome care (as mentioned by @aurum ) is absolutely essential and this is equivalent of taking care of your gut microbiome to prevent gastrointestinal disease. So the elimination of everything that harms it is an absolute must. I did 3-part blog series on dental health series where I went very in-depth on the topic of oral health and oral microbiome, you can check those here if you're interested. Also got a Youtube video on this topic (second link in signature) 

Now in terms of antibacterial mouthwashes, I would like to get an opinion on someone more versed in oral microbiome research but I don't think they are a good thing to do. Not all bacteria in our mouth is bad, in fact, the last thing you want to do is damage that delicate balance and give opportunity for pathogenic bacteria from those inflamed pockets to spread. 

And of course, diet as mentioned above is super critical. Diet high in plants especially fruits and vegetables is protective against periodontal disease and periodontitis whereas a diet high in refined carbohydrates, saturated fats and fizzy drinks is super harmful. Avoid all sticky food, all candy that sticks to your teeth like glue and any of that stuff. 

Definitely start with the dentist and also the hygienist. Get those cavities tended to and cleaned. But once that is done also get interdental spaces cleaned, any periodontal pockets cleaned and also plaque removed by the hygienist. Once you are at that stage commit to lifelong bulletproof dental hygiene which includes a meticulous cleaning routine, clean diet and the elimination of junk food. 

The risk is that if you don't and you let it rot, it may impact your heart, your lungs, your gut and your brain over time. Whatever it costs, definitely get it fixed with absolute priority. 

btw don't worry about whitening at this stage. A lot of that yellowing is pigmentation. Removing those infected pockets is a priority, whitening is just a cosmetic thing that often comes naturally with improved hygiene but I definitely wouldn't use any whitening chemicals overnight as you may harm the enamel layer not to mention you will be ingesting that stuff overnight too. 

Good luck 

If only I could pin this comment on my wall. This was very helpful info.

[Kshantivadin]

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

but there is probably a very strong relationship there. 

Have you considered it being purely a behavioural correlation / periodontal infections as signs of poor health?

Edited March 22, 2022 by Kshantivadin

[Michael569]

@Kshantivadin well of course but not in the sense that anyone would deliberately sabotage their health, it may be lack of knowledge  or just health not being one of the highest values or priorities in life.  People with poor health may probably be likely to engage in all sorts of behviors that wouldn't be considered healthy tho such as smoking, alcohol, high sugar consumption etc so yeah. 

But the neglect is usually not deliberate, it is a side effect of other things having higher priority which is totally understandable

 

[aurum]

9 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Now in terms of antibacterial mouthwashes, I would like to get an opinion on someone more versed in oral microbiome research but I don't think they are a good thing to do. Not all bacteria in our mouth is bad, in fact, the last thing you want to do is damage that delicate balance and give opportunity for pathogenic bacteria from those inflamed pockets to spread. 

Curious to see what your perspective would be if you read the book I mentioned above. She definitely does not recommend just killing all bacteria, but she does include Listerine and a few other mouthwashes in her system.

Personally, the mouthwashes are the part I am most skeptical about as well. But I figured I’d play full out if I was going to follow her advise. So far seems pretty good, especially for my gums. No signs of gingivitis anymore. 

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

Curious to see what your perspective would be if you read the book I mentioned above

I was chcking it out on Amazon, might give it a shot at some point

1 hour ago, aurum said:

Personally, the mouthwashes are the part I am most skeptical about as well. But I figured I’d play full out if I was going to follow her advise. So far seems pretty good, especially for my gums. No signs of gingivitis anymore. 

yeah, I don't know about this either. Some of those things even say "kills 99.99 bacteria" 

[Kshantivadin]

@Michael569 Thank you for the elaborate posts!

[Yarco]

Talk to your dentist first and ask them what to do.

You don't need "new age" or unorthodox techniques if you aren't doing the basic things proven by science yet.

Brush when you wake up and before you go to bed

Floss before going to bed.

Order of operations: Floss, mouth wash, brush with fluoride toothpaste. Don't rinse your mouth out with water after brushing so the fluoride stays on your teeth for a couple hours.

You can get a Opti-Rinse 0.2% remineralizing fluoride rinse and use it once a week.

Chew gum containing xylitol (eg. Pür brand) and use xylitol as a substitute for sugar and other sweeteners in your diet. (Prevents, stops and reverses cavities.)

Get a water pick in addition to regular flossing. Will quickly undo gingivitis.

Tongue scraper

Eat a low acidity diet (look up a list of low acid foods and eat those. Look up high acid foods and dont eat those.)

Rinse with warm saltwater once and a while especially if your gums are red.

If you want to skip all mentions of fluoride above to avoid calcifying your pineal gland or w/e be my guest. Personally I'd rather not have cavities and be a little less awake or whatever the claim is. Your drinking water probably already contains fluoride unless you're filtering it anyway.