Compassion & Duality of Self-Other

[Tim R]

What's your understanding of compassion? How important is it in your life?

After all, if others are illusory, why be compassionate? That's one of the big questions.

In Buddhism it is said that "Karuna" wells up from within you like a spring, once you realize who your are. Alledgedly, many people here have realized the Self. 

How compassionate are you? What would it mean if you're not compassionate? Because it seems to me that the opposite of compassion is selfishness, in whatever form it might manifest

[Inliytened1]

On 3/15/2022 at 6:35 AM, Tim R said:

What's your understanding of compassion? How important is it in your life?

After all, if others are illusory, why be compassionate? That's one of the big questions.

 

Compassion and love for other is everything.  It matters not if others are imaginary in the Absolute context.  Because  Imaginary and real are identical.  Thus others are real. Your love for other exhibits selflessness  which is your true nature.  It is through your selflessness toward other and your integrity that you awaken.  Selfishness and dishonesty results in suffering which also grows you, but only because it forces to you to see that selflessness and compassion is the answer.

Much love ❤️ 

[Mason Riggle]

@Tim R Selfishness and Compassion are the same thing if all there is, is you.   

When ego is selfish (essentially, whenever there is ego.. or when the illusion of a 'separate self' is), there is imaginary separation between 'ego' and 'that which is not ego', which creates suffering. 

It's not that 'all others are illusion'.. it's that there is no 'self/other' duality.. that's the illusion.  It's all you. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Mason Riggle

[Kksd74628]

@Tim R

I copy paste my answer for forza21 from our PM's, because this question seems like so much the same.

When you say that you care about something or someone it means that you don't want to see any damage happening to it, because that is against your own morals and thoughts of how life should be. You want your own vision to survive and that's why you care about it and feel sad when it is going great and bad when not.

If you wouldn't know or see any bad, you would be at peace knowing that no one is suffering. By that I mean you only care about that which you perceive, not the thing "behind" that thing. You shouldn't care about the "experience" that perceiving has or not, but directly that which you see, because that is the picture you want to shape to picture of no one suffering.

You can think this like you being in lucid dream - which basically is dream you are conscious of being in knowing it is dream - and seeing dream characters suffering. Would you be okay seeing this? If yes then that is fine and it is not that you lack love or action. If that is not okay for you then it is okay as well, but then change that which you see and that is called as "helping".

In life you want to be in peace with things around you and you can do that by 2 ways or what happens usually is some combination of them. Either you accept that which you see or then shape that to something you could accept.

That is also point of life to be happy which means to accept present moment as it is. Your power is not strong enough to freeze state to something you could accept and that's why I suggest you to work your acceptance levels also known as love levels. To love is to accept <3

Edited March 15, 2022 by Kksd74628

[Tim R]

8 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

Selfishness and Compassion are the same thing if all there is, is you.   

That can be construed in a very self serving, selfish way. That Self/You you're talking about, that which is all, is not the same self as the "selfish-self"

[Mason Riggle]

@Tim R If all I see is me, and I want to be selfish for me, aren't I being compassionate towards myself? 

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Tim R said:

That can be construed in a very self serving, selfish way. That Self/You you're talking about, that which is all, is not the same self as the "selfish-self"

Agreed.

Loving something or being compassionate towards others because they are you is not selflessness

From what wisdom i have gathered through my own path (which included much suffering) God imagines the duality of self/other in order to share its love and exhibit selflessness.   It must thus buy into the dream that others exist outside or separate from their own consciousness

[Tim R]

Just now, Mason Riggle said:

If all I see is me, and I want to be selfish for me, aren't I being compassionate towards myself? 

Well yes, but now we're just juggling words the no-self-Self can't be selfish, unless you think of it as something distict/finite, which, as you said, it  isn't.

Is compassion only drected towards finite beings? Because if yes, then compassion is essentially also just playing the game. 

If compassion = selflessness... wouldn't that make your true nature the same thing as compassion? (rhetorical pointer question)

[Mason Riggle]

@Tim R ding ding ding

[Mason Riggle]

10 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Loving something or being compassionate towards others because they are you is not selflessness.

This isn't what I said.  I said being compassionate is selfish when all there is, is self.  When I am you and Leo and Tim and me.. I can be compassionate towards all of 'you' and this is the same as me being selfish for Me!!

[Tim R]

1 minute ago, Mason Riggle said:

When I am you and Leo and Tim and me.. I can be compassionate towards all of 'you' and this is the same as me being selfish for Me!!

That's why I said that we're juggling words, because if you used "selfless" instead of "selfish", you'd still be saying the same thing

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

This isn't what I said.  I said being compassionate is selfish when all there is, is self.  When I am you and Leo and Tim and me.. I can be compassionate towards all of 'you' and this is the same as me being selfish for Me!!

Yes from the Absolute It is actually both selfish and selfless because that duality collapses.  But I don't think he wanted an answer from the Absolute.

[Scholar]

God shows ultimate compassion to all of Creation. God is so compassionate that he will feel every bit of suffering of every creature that exists. There is nothing for which he has no compassion for. He understands all suffering, because he is all suffering.

His compassion is direct, his empathy is complete. That's why embodying the Essence of the Divine means to be compassionate. It means to learn how to suffer, not to learn how to escape it. To feel everything there is to feel.

 

Compassion is Being, it is Connection and Union. Human empathy is nothing but a premature version of the Compassion of God, an imitation of a deeper truth.

 

There is no illusion, other than illusion. The only thing that is, is this.

 

Compassion and Empathy are perceptions, they are like your eye-sight. They give you insight to the structure of the world. If you are blind, notice how it is more difficult to traverse the universe and explore it. Compassion and Empathy is one way to experience Truth, and it is Truth itself.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Scholar

[Mason Riggle]

@Inliytened1 well.. 'duality of self/other' was part of the OP.. when that duality collapses.. it's all love baby. 

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@Inliytened1 .. it's all love baby. 

?

[Kksd74628]

@Tim R

Also add on to my previous big answer I can say the whole thing shorter. Selflessness just means to love helping "others" - even if they are real or not - and getting happiness along the way doesn't suppress the "good" you did. Selflessness is just overrated thing in relative sense, because it cannot be attained in its core definition. The reason why it is so popular is, because collaboration helps groups and we want to glorify those who keep the system working. PS. note the previous answer if you didn't yet : )

[Mason Riggle]

@Kksd74628 it's HUGELY important to remember to treat your own 'ego/body' as 'other' too when being compassionate to 'others'.  Your 'mind/body' is as 'external to you' as I am. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Mason Riggle

[Gili Trawangan]

33 minutes ago, Tim R said:

What's your understanding of compassion? How important is it in your life?

Tough questions that I wouldn't ask myself, personally. The answer that comes to mind is that I have no understanding of compassion and that it's not at all important in my life. But these are misleading answers. What that means is that I don't try to understand compassion at all, it simply arises from a deeper place, and I don't build my sense of self with any thoughts of compassion or how I am compassionate or how I need more of it in life. I can conjure up those thoughts right now, but don't find them useful.

37 minutes ago, Tim R said:

After all, if others are illusory, why be compassionate? That's one of the big questions.

Because what I am is Love. It's not a choice to be compassionate, not really. One is compassionate to the extent that there isn't a veiling of truth happening in the moment. When ego isn't in the way, the natural response is to love, understand others, meet them where they're at, use love, wisdom and understanding to the best of one's ability and share love, wisdom and understanding with others.

40 minutes ago, Tim R said:

In Buddhism it is said that "Karuna" wells up from within you like a spring, once you realize who your are.

That's it. There isn't an agenda to become more compassionate, it just happens. Like I said, that word isn't even a big part of my vocabulary for some reason. But if right now I start conjuring up images of "my life", it could be said that there is definitely a deepening of compassion happening as time progresses.

45 minutes ago, Tim R said:

How compassionate are you? What would it mean if you're not compassionate? Because it seems to me that the opposite of compassion is selfishness, in whatever form it might manifest

I guess one could say that embodiment of truth is proportionate to the level of compassion. But I can't stress this enough, I don't think it comes from a pre-planned decision "I shall be more compassionate", it's simply a byproduct of understanding - not intellectually - what reality is.

[Kksd74628]

@Mason Riggle

Yes I agree completely, because in the most absolute sense everything is so "other" that there is no room for the opposite of other and therefore everyhing is movie which is just that which is happening right NOW. Finally someone gets it : ) When everything in present moment is treated as "other" then there is no room for "I". Remember though that this was not point of this thread, but I am always open to talk about this concept, because people seem to get confuced about it too much.

[Mason Riggle]

@Kksd74628 it's an easy hang up.

On @Someone here's thread, I posed the question for contemplation: Do I always do what I want, or can I do 'other than I want' if I want to? 

Another pointer to show it's all Selfish Love.