If you are the only Mind then why are you talking to others on this forum?

[Inliytened1]

40 minutes ago, Forza21 said:

So:
From my POV you don't have existence.
From your POV i don't have existence.

From your POV, your dream is absolute, and i'm dream character.
From my POV, me dream is absolute, and you are dream character.


is that right?

And if we assume, that i don't want to be awake, and we are speaking only relative/human way, we both have existence? ;-)

No that's exactly what I don't want you to get confused about.  Your Mind is all there is.  Full stop.  Your Mind and You are identical.  Consciousness is YOU.   Even to say your POV is too far because you as Infinite Mind must first imagine it is a self to have a "POV".  So it's clearer to say your Mind is all there is full stop.   And you are your Mind.  It's all One.  When you say it's just Consciousness yes it is.  But YOU ARE Consciousness.  You and Consciousness are identical and that is a duality that can collapse. And when I say YOU I am using an expanded definition of what YOU means.  I don't mean the human self or ego.

 

[Forza21]

21 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

The problem is you are taking this stuff as a belief.   Even what you just said- there is only Consciousness - which i also claim is true and I don't disagree with -  my claim  is ONLY a possible theory for you right now. You have no direct experience of what i am speaking of or evem what you are speaking  of.  Hear what I am saying but then do the practices to see what is true.  Or - if this stuff is already bothering you - which I know that it is - then just take a break from spirituality and get back to everyday life.  Or even go back to what we talked about earlier...do self inquiry and start there if  you truly wish to pursue spirituality.  

Honestly, i try HARD to take a break, but my mind is still creating these thoughts and problems, like " are these people real or not?" 

 Can't stop thinking about it, can't go back to normal life, so at least i try my best to make sense of it. But many topics creates only more confusion, and more paranoia.  Yeah it's kinda rough time, and i was pretty sane and mentally stable person. I regret latest trip.  I have no idea what i've done wrong to get into this, instead of realization of love, i get fear and it draggs me down.

BUT i meet wonderful people here anyway. At least i'm thankful for that.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Forza21

[Gili Trawangan]

45 minutes ago, Forza21 said:

my mind is still creating these thoughts and problems, like " are these people real or not?"

That's precisely it, these are just thoughts. Here's a key insight: no thought is ever absolutely true. It can't. A thought is finite whereas reality is infinite. The mind - thought - can never make sense of it. All you can do is let go of thoughts in the moment, particularly those that don't feel good. No thought is absolutely true, so why grab on to the ones that feel awful?

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Forza21 said:

i feel like it's killing my love, instead of increasing it. How do u see it?

Unconditional love is what's being longed for. 

It's what's left when the egos conditional concepts & expectations of love die.

And simultaneously it's an understanding of The Human Condition...... we think we are vulnerable separate individuals who need to defend ourselves.

And there is nothing right or wrong with experiencing separation & defending it..... it's just what's apparently happening!! 

❤ 

[SgtPepper]

@Forza21

Ukrainian people, you, us, others, Leo, are creations of consciousness.

Consciousness is uncreated or in other words infinity - because its not a thing, just the 'space' and more, for anything to happen.

The quality of that 'space' is actually what everything is made of too. So that is what You are.

It's asking yourself "Who am I?" and then you answer conventionally "I am Forza21", but then you ask again "Who am I beneath Forza21?" and then your answer is *no thought* - pure Consciousness - thats what we as living things actually are. 

When Form/creation appears within consciousness, it becomes distinct from consciousness by other forms/creation. Consciousness doesn't create distinctions that is why there is no you or me.

Although I will add for me, paradoxically, Consciousness does create distinctions through its creation. That is why there is a you and me talking on this forum.

In summary, everything is still real + you know the Truth. The One in you, is greater than the out in the world. and that One in us all, is the same. 

Hopefully that makes sense. 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by SgtPepper

[WelcometoReality]

7 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Honestly, i try HARD to take a break, but my mind is still creating these thoughts and problems, like " are these people real or not?" 

I don't see a problem here. ? The mind creates thought. That's natural. There's just no need to engage with the questions that come from it.

7 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Can't stop thinking about it, can't go back to normal life, so at least i try my best to make sense of it. But many topics creates only more confusion, and more paranoia.  Yeah it's kinda rough time, and i was pretty sane and mentally stable person. I regret latest trip.  I have no idea what i've done wrong to get into this, instead of realization of love, i get fear and it draggs me down.

The fear and paranoia comes with the questions. What was life like when you were a child without these questions? You were probably playing at the playing grounds without any care whether it's real or not? 

The question whether reality is real or not is a smoke screen that the mind puts up and now you're trying to answer it in hope of getting relief from the fear. Question the question rather then seeking an answer and the relief will come.

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by WelcometoReality
Meet the fear and feel it fully and things will open up.

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Can't stop thinking about it, can't go back to normal life, so at least i try my best to make sense of it.

14 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

 

that is ego and nothing else. It has no relevance, as much as saying, I am Japanese. The problem is that egoic ideas are promoted here and they are called being awake. to be awake is to go beyond ideas. then you can try to explain it, but not in such a concrete way, since words and concepts do not do justice, reality is much deeper and richer

[michaelcycle00]

9 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Honestly, i try HARD to take a break, but my mind is still creating these thoughts and problems, like " are these people real or not?" 

 Can't stop thinking about it, can't go back to normal life, so at least i try my best to make sense of it. But many topics creates only more confusion, and more paranoia.  Yeah it's kinda rough time, and i was pretty sane and mentally stable person. I regret latest trip.  I have no idea what i've done wrong to get into this, instead of realization of love, i get fear and it draggs me down.

BUT i meet wonderful people here anyway. At least i'm thankful for that.

Didn't you already realize that only you have a POV and everybody else is just an empty meat sack? I'm basing this on your last trip report... you said you saw how you were creating your girlfriend and how there was no consciousness behind her eyes. So why are you still asking? Or was that "trip report" just a thought experiment?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, nuwu said:

pls wakey me up

dissolve your ego, collapse duality and become infinite. and above all, do not conceptualize spirituality, this is useful only to get you crazy

[Inliytened1]

15 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

. ?

When one awakens then, at first, questions seem irrelevant. Because it's seen from an absolute perspective to make no sense but as the awakening deepens the absolute perspective isn't held onto. All perspectives are relevant, even the mind of others. 

I wouldn't say it has anything to do with imagination for me, rather that replying  seems like the natural thing to do if that makes any sense.

 

This is basically you falling asleep.  We are saying similar things here. You don't stay in the Absolute.  If you did there would be no dream and thus no reality. 

 

15 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

 

Could this perspective be because when psychedelics is used there is seen that it's a dream but as the trip wears off you also go back to sleep?

. ?

Yes but with awakening in general not just awakening via psychedelic trip.  An elevated state of consciousness or mystical state if uou will. 

 

15 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

 

To be honest I don't fully resonate with "imagination" the way you use it. Maybe it's a psychedelic/non-psychedelic clash or maybe it's because I don't fully understand what's meant by it. Maybe our interpretations are just different and so the is an gap in understanding each other because of it.

Maybe you can clarify this for me. ?

Basically as you said earlier there is no objective world or objective other.  Other is imagined.   So if you are talking to your girlfriend you don't first say in your mind - I know she's not real but I'm gonna have fun talking to her and pretending" that might be fun in a night time dream when your lucid dreaming...but here this is the "real: reality.  It would not be fun if you knew everything is a dream all the time.   It wouldn't be real.  So you just go back to it being real.  But the mechanism itself for making it real is still is imagination since reality is a giant mind.  We just don't realize we are doing it because we are imagining its real.  That's what falling back asleep basically is.

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, nuwu said:

i-is "empathy for others" worth sacrificing time for? whats point of anything when finite beings intrinsically want to live in illusions

not to mention concept of "others" can potentially be a misleading abstraction over reality's nature. or fact we simply don't know whats truly best course of action unless alignment is felt, considering infinite ramifications / butterfly effect (which carry assumption of deterministic reality, such that logic fails even if it did work)

pls wakey me up

Yeah this is a key mistake and maybe the nihilism trap.  After awakening you should feel more love, more empathy and more sympathy for others because all are a part of you.  Also you actually created others out of selflessness so that you can learn to put others before your small self.  This is a way of exhibiting selflessness because your true nature IS selflessness and formlessness.  So being selfless towards others is a finite form of what is Infinite Selflessness or your true nature. 

[Inliytened1]

24 minutes ago, nuwu said:

t-too scared of everything

Don't let fear rule you 

[Terell Kirby]

20 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

So why then talk to anyone if they are all you?

Who said that there was anything wrong with talking to yourself?

There's no reason to do it .. but it's also no reason not to do it. That is the beauty of reality / life.

You get to choose what you want to do in the dream, and it doesn't change the fact that it's a dream.

[Breakingthewall]

32 minutes ago, nuwu said:

t-too scared of everything

whether you are afraid or not, what is is what is. you can't escape, you can't hide. It's like a child who covers his eyes when he's scared and thinks he's going to disappear...everything will be the same whether you're scared or not, so it's better to look straight ahead.

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

Who said that there was anything wrong with talking to yourself?

 

A ton of people on the forum ask this when we tell them there is no other mind but their own.  

[zurew]

16 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

Who said that there was anything wrong with talking to yourself?

True, even if we were just to use the context of the ego, we are talking in our heads all the time. In fact, that's one of the reasons why there is a more growing need for techniques like meditation and yoga (to be able to have a calm,quiet mind).

Edited March 14, 2022 by zurew

[WelcometoReality]

29 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Basically as you said earlier there is no objective world or objective other.  Other is imagined.   So if you are talking to your girlfriend you don't first say in your mind - I know she's not real but I'm gonna have fun talking to her and pretending" that might be fun in a night time dream when your lucid dreaming...but here this is the "real: reality.  It would not be fun if you knew everything is a dream all the time.   It wouldn't be real.  So you just go back to it being real.  But the mechanism itself for making it real is still is imagination since reality is a giant mind.  We just don't realize we are doing it because we are imagining its real.

Yes. Thank you for answering. It makes sense now. ??

So even if you go back to sleep is there "something" that never leaves?

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

Yes. Thank you for answering. It makes sense now. ??

So even if you go back to sleep is there "something" that never leaves?

Yes - you know you are putting yourself back to sleep.  That's the difference.   Someone who has never awoken does not know they are are asleep or that they can awaken until they do.  Even when an awakened person goes back to sleep they don't know it in the moment.  But they will awaken again or have that conscious moment where they say oh! Yeah! I was asleep again and this is all a dream ? and then they go back to sleep again.   So it's kinda like waking up over and over again for the rest of your life when you have those moments.  

[Gesundheit2]

19 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's much more profound than that. Reality itself is dependent on it.  Reality itself is dependent on separation.   Without that there self would go insane because there would be no difference between self and other and self requires separation for its very existence.

Profundity is a relative thing. I don't find what you said to be profound at all at this moment in my life.

If it is true (and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with that even though I don't agree either), then it's not a major thing. I mean if duality/the sense of self is really the thing that prevents insanity, then insanity is not a problem because without a self there aren't any problems.

19 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Also stop falling into the trap that I see many if you falling into.  The Leo trap.  These facets of Truth are independent and prior to the imaginary avatar Leo.  Yes, he has a good way of articulating these things - but he is a product of your own mind articulating them back to you using your own Infinite Intelligence to the point where you have blinded yourself from even realizing this fact.  Should you realize it directly you will awaken. 

You call it a trap, I call it data, and it informs my thinking. I see data for what it is. I don't dismiss it, but I don't take it as truth either.

What you said here is obvious, but it's another form of data, not truth. It's a story that you keep on telling and seem to be convinced that it is true, which basically mean a belief that you hold dearly. I have entertained that story for a long time then I let it go. It feels much better now.

[zurew]

24 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I have entertained that story for a long time then I let it go. It feels much better now.

You can dismiss anything even God if you want to, but only if you are using a finite self. You try to understand it, examine it, using your finite human self as a ground which can get to some truth. You are thinking that you are a human, because you are in that a state of consciousness, where if you self-examine , you come to the consclusion that you are indeed a human finite being.

If we were to change you brain chemistry radically, your sense of self and your sense of reality could change radically.(You can say here, so God why need to change its brain chemistry to find about itself? - the answer is all this talk and concepts are only needed for our communication. These are just concepts and patterns that are needed as a story to open your finite mind up to other possibilities)

The question is which state you will trust more, and on what basis?

If you assume right now, that you are really Absolute and God, do you think that using this finite self to understand yourself would be sufficient? Or you might need to change your brain chemistry in such a way where you can expose yourself to infinite consciousness, so that infinite consciousness will become your identity, and the distinction between everything will sees to exist, and also that infinite consciousness, can use its infinite nature, to self-reflect.

You can argue, that you don't want to assume that, because you ultimately don't know if it is true or not. However, if you want to entertain some ideas,  to figure things out, then you might need to do some experiment.

After that you can still say, that it might just be a delusion to think about ourselves as God, but again that judgement would be made in this finite state.

Basically, examining anything from this state you can say that others can't say anything in an absolute way, because it is just a belief for them. From your state of consciousness it would be true, however, if you don't want to make yourself subject to this state, then you can play with other states as well, and see what other things are possible.

So the question is, do you want to do some experimentation and discovery? If the answer is yes, the following question is, what state would be more better for God to understand itself better and to discover itself? My answer would be infinite levels of consciousness.

Even for most of your ideas about what possible and what is not possible, is ingrained in this level of human consciousness.

Edited March 14, 2022 by zurew