Reality manipulation

[Anahata]

Just now, axiom said:

Thoughts are nothing more than an occurrence in an immutable chain of events. 

Notice how this is a conceptual construction, a thought, a belief

[michaelcycle00]

23 minutes ago, Benton said:

All this started with kundalini. Kundalini will be necessary for you to have the proper juice to do a lot of these things. Yoga plus psychedelics equals crazy shit. You want to manipulate reality? If you have active kundalini and are tripping dick then it will probably happen. Most likely not even entirely on purpose.

Certainly not. You have to realize that you expected Kundalini for XYZ reason and that's what you received in order to make sense of "manipulating reality". I used to see it this way as well, but I've now come to realize that it is just a HUGE limiting belief. I'm guessing your belief process regarding reality creation goes something like this: I'm a human being with certain hidden metaphysical capabilities that can affect the inner and *OUTER* world to a degree, I'm capable of more than I currently can do but there are many things I could never do because XYZ causes aren't met. This is NOT the case. What you need to understand is that you don't need some energy running up and down your spine to make an impact in the outer world, because you're ALREADY creating the entirety of it. You're already using unlimited energy to create everything around you at every moment. If you get to the top of a skyscraper and see the whole city from above you're literally creating the whole city right there. With 0 effort whatsoever. It's like you literally have a billion megaton nukes in your backpack but you insist on looking for a pair of triple-A batteries in order to be able to do something. Kundalini is no farther or closer than everything else is to you. Change your consciousness within and it'll reflect on the outside right away.

[Fernanda]

@Benton I got you. You eventually come to realize that you imagined the numbers and the symbols (spiders, etc). And even precognition is a faculty of you becoming conscious of you imagining things that end up manifesting. Once I wrote a poem about something I imagined was happening and I was very emotional about it. The next morning something I wrote manifested just like my description in words. It was such a profound experience.

But as @michaelcycle00 said, it all comes down to you realizing you are imagining everything. As you stop giving power to the external you can start keeping track of how each frame of your present moment is being painted by you. Then you don't need any explanation. It's just you everywhere. And you can't even communicate it rightly because your desires and your imagination is something so powerful and fluid that it's just so very hard to grasp.

[LastThursday]

On 11/03/2022 at 11:38 PM, zurew said:

i am on the edge of God consciousness or close to it, i should be able to manipulate this dream better, compared to what i can do right now.

I thought I'd pick up on this. 

If manifestation is true, then this would be exactly what would be expected if God "leaked" into lower levels of being. As a God, you/it would hide its own powers from itself, by separating itself from itself. In other words if you wanted to pretend you were not a god (as a kind of game of forgetting), then you would hive off a part of yourself and make it less godlike and less powerful. 

This game of forgetting isn't perfect, and glimpses of godlike powers (manifestation) would occasionally happen. It's not perfect forgetting, because God delights in discovering itself again, but only slowly and bit by bit.

[LastThursday]

11 hours ago, zurew said:

What is the difference between framing manifestation this way vs setting a goal and making the necessary steps to achieve it?

Nearly none at all I would say. The only subtle difference is one of "ownership". With LOA/manifestation you simply set things in motion and give up on owning the process, with goal setting you take ownership of what happens with every step. But, the result may be the same in both cases.

I wouldn't say LOA is any easier than goal orientation and taking action. It could be that a lot of things have to take place and run their course before the manifestation happens: in some ways the journey is always more important than the end result. Even with the goal orientation/taking action approach, there is a lot of luck, synchronicity and grabbing chances which you can't "own".

[axiom]

8 hours ago, Anahata said:

Notice how this is a conceptual construction, a thought, a belief

Notice that you had no control over this thought appearing.

[Fernanda]

1 minute ago, Benton said:

Yes I am aware of imagination

I know you are.

Sometimes it seems I get lost in this awareness and then I suffer and create/imagine events to make me aware again and again.

[Arthogaan]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

Notice that you had no control over this thought appearing.

I wondered about this a lot. 

I also thought that everything is just a chain of events, that my every thought could be traced back to electrons bumping off of each other ever since big bang. 

But then I decided to look at that thought. And I decided to just witness a thought and not fall into it. But was that decision also deterministic? And that one? And that one? So it goes to an infinite loop and then there is an error and only silence remains. Only consciousness. 

Determinism and Free Will are the same thing. They both are true. It a paradox.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Arthogaan

[Fernanda]

8 minutes ago, Benton said:

And since then before I experience major shifts in my consciousness I’ll usually see a spider.  I remember one time I was about to go through a transitionary experience in my life. Where I left a lot of things behind. When all this started I found a spider on my bed molting.

I am the spider? I am infinite consciousness. And sometimes I communicate with myself in unique ways. At least relatively

That's beautiful. The way I see is that the spider became a symbol for something deeper within yourself, learning to die and love, love and die... awakening. I sometimes have dialogues with people in my mind and days after I catch myself having the opportunity in contextual life to actually say those things to a person. Manifestation is real, it happens all the time, we just have to notice and appreciate it.

[axiom]

20 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

I decided to just witness a thought and not fall into it. But was that decision also deterministic? And that one? And that one?

Yes.

20 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

So it goes to an infinite loop and then there is an error and only silence remains. Only consciousness. 

Yes, consciousness provides infinite feedback unto itself. Not sure what you mean by an "error" though. 

22 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

Determinism and Free Will are the same thing. They both are true. It a paradox.

It's not a paradox because they aren't both true.

"Free will" is the biggest illusion going. There are thoughts which arise and pass away just as the tide ebbs and flows, and there is the sense that these thoughts are somehow "yours". But notice that you cannot - and never could - predict the thoughts you end up having. They just appear all on their own.

You can prove this to yourself by watching your thoughts now for a couple of minutes. Notice that you have no idea which thought you're going to have until it appears.

In a nutshell, you are dead.

There is no-one here at all in the apparent universe. There are just apparent bodies and things and actions happening. You are consigned to watching. You cannot affect the unfolding of the universe in any way. 

[Fernanda]

10 minutes ago, Benton said:

I would just like to say I’m always happy to talk with someone who has had experiences similar to me. It’s hard for me to find people like that.

Yes, it's joyful. I'm also greateful for this conversation?

[axiom]

14 minutes ago, Benton said:

@axiom I am the Universe unfolding. You are imagining a distinction between yourself and it. There is no difference between you acting, somebody else acting, and the Universe. 

I'm not imagining this distinction. I'm making the point that this process / this reality cannot be controlled, and is not controlled by any "one" nor any "thing". 

If you like, I can explain in detail how every unique word in your sentence above involves some tacit imaginary distinction of disparate ideas... which are in actuality all exactly the same idea, such that one word - or even no words at all - would suffice. But it would take me a lot of words to do so

Edited March 16, 2022 by axiom

[axiom]

10 minutes ago, Benton said:

There is nothing outside of God to limit God. There is only God.

I agree with this (a slightly modified version of what you actually wrote). As soon as "me" or "I" comes into it, you're referencing ephemeral phenomena.

10 minutes ago, Benton said:

Even my limitations are willing.

I think even God is slave... infinitely recycling itself through an ourobouros / torus of infinite feedback (metaphors)

Edited March 16, 2022 by axiom

[axiom]

11 minutes ago, Benton said:

If God is a slave to his self is he really a slave? Wouldn’t his slavery be willing? There is nothing outside of “Me” or God to force me. 

I agree, all language is duality. It's the best we can do.

If you watch how you're imagining things (i.e. you do not decide which thoughts you're going to have), then you'll realise that this is the same way God imagines things. Because you already are God, imagining.

Whatever God imagines is just whatever it imagines. It does not control it. It does not will it. If that sounds like freedom, then God is free.

Edited March 16, 2022 by axiom

[Fernanda]

38 minutes ago, axiom said:

I'm not imagining this distinction. I'm making the point that this process / this reality cannot be controlled, and is not controlled by any "one" nor any "thing". 

I think what is misleading is the Word "control". Only the ego wants "control", but all the Self  can do is to just observe itself. The observer is the observed and you can become conscious of that, how the dreamer is dreaming. As you become conscious, you can experience something like manifestation, since time is ilusory. What once you experienced as "wanting", now is visible/experiencible/sensible, but it is the same thing/event, if we take the "time factor" out of the equation. It is not that you controlled anything, but you came to the understanding of something in a deeper level. 

[axiom]

41 minutes ago, Benton said:

It only seems that way from the perspective of a limited identity. The ideas of limitation and freedom. It’s a duality that doesn’t exist. Everything is allowed within reality. To me that is freedom. This was consciously and intelligently designed as well. Reality isn’t accidental. It is all powerful. 

God is limited by nothing.  I understand what your saying. No-Thing is making anything happen. 
Consciousness itself is will. Reality is will.

I don't exactly agree. I think that reality is accidental, chaotic and entropic. There is no intelligence that designed it. Rather, it is happening, it has always been happening, and it is aware. I do not see limitation here. The idea of volition is a misapprehension that you're scaling up to the God level. Volition is an artefact from the perspective of a limited identity. You have experienced thoughts arising and passing, but you have never experienced volition. You postulate its existence when it has never been part of your lived reality at any level.

Volition, agency, control - these are egoic constructs.

To put it another way, God is its own source. It wraps around itself forever. It is the input and the output. Perpetually changing form in an eternal cycle of destruction and re-creation.

 It does not possess "will".

[Fernanda]

10 minutes ago, axiom said:

I don't exactly agree. I think that reality is accidental, chaotic and entropic. There is no intelligence that designed it.

There is no intelligence that designed it, because it is being designed right now. It takes will even to get out of bed, it is no accident, that's my direct experience. Complete chaos/accident would be a limitation. Total control would also be a limitation. We can imagine limitations at will, though.

[axiom]

@Benton Yes, I must do more DMT, especially 5MEO. Thanks for your pointers.

Past experiences on high doses of psilocybin have been absolutely terrifying in scale, so I've been putting it off. The prospect of experiencing so much love again makes me feel anxious. Not sure if I can put myself through that again. 

[Arthogaan]

3 hours ago, axiom said:

"Free will" is the biggest illusion going. There are thoughts which arise and pass away just as the tide ebbs and flows, and there is the sense that these thoughts are somehow "yours". But notice that you cannot - and never could - predict the thoughts you end up having. They just appear all on their own.

You can prove this to yourself by watching your thoughts now for a couple of minutes. Notice that you have no idea which thought you're going to have until it appears

I totally agree with all that you wrote here.

So we could look at thoughts just like at any other sense. Like brain is an antenna tha catches deterministic thoughts out of air.

BUT there is consciousness behind all senses, behind thoughts just as you've written yourself. But I as consciousness can choose what to focus on. On my thoughts, on sounds, onto itself. Consciousness is free to navigate. Focus is different than thinking. All else I can agree to be deterministic but consciousness itself is a Free Will of Creator. That how I see it.

Just like in a dream, thoughts of your character are not being generated by him but by you sleeping mind. But the act of realization that it is a dream, act of ignoring thoughts and contents of a dream, act of realizing by dreamt character that it is in fact whole mind, whole dream it is pure Free Will.

So in a way before enlightment world is deterministic, after God-Realization the Free Will is true. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Arthogaan

[XxxDenyYourLies]

On 3/16/2022 at 8:05 AM, Fernanda said:

@Benton I got you. You eventually come to realize that you imagined the numbers and the symbols (spiders, etc). And even precognition is a faculty of you becoming conscious of you imagining things that end up manifesting. Once I wrote a poem about something I imagined was happening and I was very emotional about it. The next morning something I wrote manifested just like my description in words. It was such a profound experience.

But as @michaelcycle00 said, it all comes down to you realizing you are imagining everything. As you stop giving power to the external you can start keeping track of how each frame of your present moment is being painted by you. Then you don't need any explanation. It's just you everywhere. And you can't even communicate it rightly because your desires and your imagination is something so powerful and fluid that it's just so very hard to grasp.

Michael is wrong, you're not imagining shit. He is misleading people. You should not pay attention to trolls.

 

Take for example your eyes, you can only even get aware of something you see after the fact, after your brain process what you are seeing, then milliseconds later you're able to think or "imaigne" something". nothing underlying this process is "imaginary" . 

The retina reacts to light, it only reacts to light because light is NOT imaginary. That is just a silly small example that alone refutes any troll promoting " imagining everything"  nonsense. They hate their idealistic worldview destroyed tho.