Reality manipulation

[zurew]

So here is a thought experiment:

In my opinion, it should be possible to manipulate this dream, what i have right now(ego talking) in a more effective way. There should be a fine line between getting to God level/infinite level of conscioiusness and the point where you are identified (as an ego, but an ego who is much more conscious than this one right now) but not God's level yet. If that level of consciousness could be reached and could be maintained, then from that level, the dream manipulation should be more possible .

So from this lower self / limited ego perspective, it seems like i can manipulate this dream on a certain level, but because this ego is a really limited level of consciousness, it seems like that i have a very small amount of free will (from the relative perspective). But, if i could reach such a level of consciousness, where i am not aware that i am the Absolute/God, but at the same time, i am on the edge of God consciousness or close to it, i should be able to manipulate this dream better, compared to what i can do right now.(or better to say, it should seem like, that as an illusory separate self i can manipulate my dream better).

Because once one reaches God level of consciousness or the Absolute, there is no identity because you are Everything.There could be no other relative manipulation because it already happened, or it is happening.The selfishness spectrum hits 0 there, because it is realised, that there is no finite self which could desire anything.Its not even that it already has everything, but it Is already Everything.The desire for manipulation or the desire for owsnership can only happen from a finite self.

Also, illusory manipulation  can only happen if there is a separate self (when the ego is not aware, that everything is already God's will).So illusory manipulation can only happen when one is identified as a finite self. What Illusory manipulation means in my vocabulary: a separate self thinks that it has the ability to manipulate, or a separate self thinks that it has free will (not realising, that  God is the ultimate puppet master of everything)

So even if we ultimately  say, that it is a delusion, because as an ego you can't really manipulate anything because it is an illusion, i think it could be a fun experiment to try. Reaching such a level of consciousness where it seems like, that more manipulation is possible.

Again, even if it just seems like, that you are doing the manipulation, it does not matter. That seemingness should be enjoyable in an of itself.

[caspex]

How do you think? The thoughts and actions happen on their own, even though it appears as though 'you' chose it. But 'you' is just one of those sensations as well.

Let's say you want a flower to appear in your hand. It would have to happen on it's own as well, just like your thoughts.

Just like how 'you' 'chose' what to think, 'you' will have to 'choose' what to appear.

That's my theory. 

This goes well with what I have heard some time ago from someone who can perform some similar psychic feats, and I am paraphrasing, "First figure out how you generate your thoughts"

[zurew]

2 hours ago, Swarnim said:

Let's say you want a flower to appear in your hand. It would have to happen on it's own as well, just like your thoughts.

Just like how 'you' 'chose' what to think, 'you' will have to 'choose' what to appear.

I kind of agree with this, and at the same time i don't. The Absolute contains Everything, in that Everything, there should be a possibility, where I (as a finite self) can control (or it seems i can control) reality.

When you are in a lucid dream, once you realise, that you are making the dream up, you can do in that dream whatever you want to do. You have 100% control over that 'reality', and you can change your own apperance, and skills and possibilities as well.

I think there should be a possibility where you as a finite self(don't have to be a human, just much more conscious) can manifest almost anything, because God as an Absolute, contains every possibility, even the possibility, that a finite self have a lot of control over Reality ( or it can delude itself that it has a lot of control over Reality).

It seems like, there are imagined patterns ,and we need to be aware of those patterns to be able to delude ourselves, that we can do certain kind of things (or to delude ourselves that we have free will). These patterns seems to be really consistent, especially if we are talking about science.

These patterns are important stories for the mind to justify order, and certain kind of happenings. For example the action, when you smoke 5meo DMT , that action itself could be described as a pattern, which is necessary for the mind as a story, to open itself up, and to wake up. From the relative self, even when you are smoking 5 meo DMT, it seems like there is a consistent pattern there, because "you" come back from the trip at some point. It could be argued, that you are there forever, because even time is imagined, but it seems pretty hard to maintain certain levels of consciousnesses.

[zurew]

11 hours ago, Benton said:

Become more conscious yourself and see. This is the only way to verify these things. 
Really? 

But open mindedness is the first step.

Yes, but this is  kind of a practicality issue. Would you answer every question with the line of "just verify it yourself, thats the only way" if i were to ask you a scientific question? I think its fair to ask some questions, to get some feedback, to get more clear about a certain idea or issue.

I understand why you wrote that though. It can seem like, that i am lazy to do the experiment myself, but the one of the problem is that i don't even know how to set the experiment up. The other problem is, that maybe my understanding and speculation of this is totally wrong, thats the main reason why i wanted to get some feedback on this.

Basically i am wondering, if anyone has an idea about this, or any experience, how it would be possible to manifest anything out of thin air, without firstly becoming/realising Absolute God. Or to become close to that kind of level of manipulation.

Its like if you understand physics better, you can delude yourself , that you can manipulate reality better. But thats just one part how to try to get closer to the manipulation answer.

[Zeroguy]

5 hours ago, Swarnim said:

 

Let's say you want a flower to appear in your hand. It would have to happen on it's own as well, just like your thoughts.

I want hot witch.

[zurew]

23 hours ago, Benton said:

I’ve heard stories of Ramakrishna manifesting kali into reality on a physical level. To the point where he would prepare meals and eat with her. And he was also supposedly able to manifest any form he wished. 
Ive heard stories of yogis, floating, having precognition, and all sorts of wild stuff.

@Benton Interesting stories.

23 hours ago, Benton said:

Your right I can’t just answer every question with “verify it yourself”. I think I have a bit of a communication block mentally.

Don't eat yourself up, your point was valid. I just wanted some more specific ideas, but now you gave some, so thanks.

[amanen]

You can achieve levels of this with high dose psychedelics, you can do anything with consciousness.

You also can manifest anything from thin air, but this is rather hard to control.

Object displacement was my first encounter with powers like this.

[WelcometoReality]

On 2022-03-12 at 0:38 AM, zurew said:

So here is a thought experiment:

In my opinion, it should be possible to manipulate this dream, what i have right now(ego talking) in a more effective way. There should be a fine line between getting to God level/infinite level of conscioiusness and the point where you are identified (as an ego, but an ego who is much more conscious than this one right now) but not God's level yet. If that level of consciousness could be reached and could be maintained, then from that level, the dream manipulation should be more possible .

"The dream manipulation" is already possible isn't it?

When you feel thirsty you manifest by walking to the kitchen and pour a glass of water. ?

[zurew]

3 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

"The dream manipulation" is already possible isn't it?

To a certain extent, it seems like it is. But the real question is , how can one have more control over the dream.

4 hours ago, amanen said:

You also can manifest anything from thin air, but this is rather hard to control.

It would be interesting to find out a pattern for this. What is the formula, or the pattern for manifesting something from thin air (assuming there is one), and how can one be sure, that he/she did it, and it wasn't a coincidence. Or maybe searching for a pattern is wrong in an of itself, because there is the intuitive knowing, where you can know without reason, or in other cases you know something and you reason backwardly why you got that consclusion what you got.

I would assume, that this kind of knowing would rely upon on intuitive knowing more than the other one.

Edited March 14, 2022 by zurew

[Arthogaan]

I think Law of Attraction + "Life is a Dream"-Consciousness make up a really nice combination. And is kinda obvious. Just like in a dream you can be extremelly lucid to the point that you can whatever you want with a dream instantly (God). But you can be lucid just enough to realize that it is a dream, but not so much to be able to change whole dream instantly - so when you know it you focus to feel good feelings in a dream because obviously then the dream will get better and better. So you create a dream through that indirect mechanism. Thats how I see it.

[Loba]

You can manipulate it as far as it will let you, as long as it doesn't interfere with God's divine plan.

It starts with one
All I know
It's so unreal
Watch you go

I tried so hard and got so far
But in the end, it doesn't even matter
I had to fall to lose it all
But in the end, it doesn't even matter

[LastThursday]

On 14/03/2022 at 9:25 AM, zurew said:

It would be interesting to find out a pattern for this. What is the formula, or the pattern for manifesting something from thin air (assuming there is one), and how can one be sure, that he/she did it, and it wasn't a coincidence.

I have a strong interest in manifesting objects (materialisation) and want to be able to do this if at all possible.

One way to start is the slow way. Reality likes to be coherent. Manifesting from thin air is very incoherent, so it doesn't happen very much if at all. Say I want to materialise a gold ring, I can go to a shop and buy one. The reason this works is because it's very coherent and conventional: there's a reason and cause and effect, I pay money, I get gold ring. So the way to start is by bending the probabilities of reality.

There is hard scientific evidence that thought alone can affect the probability of quantum randomness. Quantum randomness is the base of reality (don't tell the Idealists!). So thought bends the probabilities of reality. The way to increase the effect of thought is through intensity of emotion, ritual, and by associating other thoughts with it. For example if I want to manifest a gold ring, I wouldn't just think of a gold ring, I would imagine my excitement and me wearing it and showing it off to others etc. You create a powerful story and framework around the thought.

Once you bend reality, it takes time to manifest stuff, because it has to seem plausible and coherent. The more implausible the longer it takes and the less likely it will manifest.

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by LastThursday

[zurew]

5 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

There is hard scientific evidence that thought alone can affect the probability of quantum randomness. Quantum randomness is the base of reality (don't tell the Idealists!). So thought bends the probabilities of reality.

My understanding is that not necessarily a thought or thoughts, but the very act of observing something can have its on effect on the quantum world. For example, i don't know if you are familiar with the double slit experiment. It was a relatively old experiment, where they realised, or found out, the very act of observing a particle has a dramatic effect on its behaviour.

Maybe you are right and thoughts have their own effects on the quantum world as well.

My only problem is with the delayation. Basically i wouldn't be sure if i have actually manifested that particular thing, or it was a coincidence. But i am open minded, and maybe a more tangible model could be constructed about manifestation.

Maybe, with a lot of experimentation some model could be made about it and some hypothesis could be made as well(assuming there is an observable pattern to it). I think assuming, that there is a pattern to it could be good, because if there is one, then that means we can find it. If there isn't one and this assumption is false, then so be it. 

Most of the time assuming that everything can be grounded in a scientific framework and methods is not good. Because it closes down reality pretty much. We make a mistake that our model of the world is the world. But in this particular case, it might be acceptable to try to search for a pattern or something tangible.

10 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

For example if I want to manifest a gold ring, I wouldn't just think of a gold ring, I would imagine my excitement and me wearing it and showing it off to others etc. You create a powerful story and framework around the thought.

Once you bend reality, it takes time to manifest stuff, because it has to seem plausible and coherent. The more implausible the longer it takes and the less likely.

This sounds very similar to what i have heard about the law of attraction. Basically, yeah the LOA and manifesting something from thin air is kind of similar. So the more vivid i can imagine something  and the more emotion i can give that particular picture the stronger it becomes, and eventually it will be manifested.

21 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

Say I want to materialise a gold ring, I can go to a shop and buy one. The reason this works is because it's very coherent and conventional

Yeah, maybe i am overthinking this.

Maybe, the more insight and knowledge we have about physics and quantum physics the more conventional 'manifestation method' can be created. This is kind of like a big dilemma, if for example i want a gold ring, should i try to manifest it from thin air by concentration, or should i just try to build some skills and get a well paying job, and then buy that ring. The second option in this case the more rational one, and it seems much more plausible that it can be done. However, that does not mean that the first one isn't a possibility.

In my opinion, manifestation from thin air can be a good choice, if that particular thing can't be easily created or can't be created at all with a conventional method.

[Kamo]

On 3/12/2022 at 4:34 PM, Benton said:

Your right. If I had to give you a pointer of where to look. I would guess that siddhis and yoga is the place. I’ve heard stories of Ramakrishna manifesting kali into reality on a physical level. To the point where he would prepare meals and eat with her. And he was also supposedly able to manifest any form he wished. 

Yeah this phenomena can happen. I personally experienced it. I was walking down the street near my home and I was thinking of a coworker who lives no where near my location, I have not thought of him much outside of work but a sudden realization of him occurred in my mind which i assumed was just a a random thought with a slightly stronger presence. Then a few moments later he came walking down the sidewalk. However my conscious intention such as Ramakirshna was not engaged, as this seemed to be quite spontaneous. Like a glimpse into the siddhi.

[LastThursday]

29 minutes ago, zurew said:

This is kind of like a big dilemma, if for example i want a gold ring, should i try to manifest it from thin air by concentration, or should i just try to build some skills and get a well paying job, and then buy that ring.

The manifestation spreads to everything, the probabilities shift so that everything aligns with your goal. So to manifest a ring, you will manifest skills first then manifest a well paying job after. LOA says it's not necessary to concentrate on the intermediate steps, these will come about as a consequence of the goal. The bigger or more unlikely the manifestation, the more intermediate steps it needs, the longer it takes. I would say there is a delay to all manifestation, either short or long, nothing is instant.

Personally, I think would try and manifest some of the intermediate steps, because than can have other beneficial side effects - but it could affect how long it takes to manifest the end goal, because you may take a less than ideal path.

There's also the "be careful what you wish for" effect. Sometimes, you get what you want manifested, but there's negativity attached to it in other areas. For example maybe you want to manifest a great paying job, and find you get fired a week later, have to wait six months for another job and then get that great paying job.

Edited March 15, 2022 by LastThursday

[zurew]

36 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

The manifestation spreads to everything, the probabilities shift so that everything aligns with your goal. So to manifest a ring, you will manifest skills first then manifest a well paying job after. LOA says it's not necessary to concentrate on the intermediate steps, these will come about as a consequence of the goal.

What is the difference between framing manifestation this way vs setting a goal and making the necessary steps to achieve it? Maybe that, with manifestation or with the LOA you don't necessarily need to know the between steps to get to the end? Because thats sounds practical in an of itself. 

Thank you for your detailed explanations, they are very helpful to understand this 'problem' from a different angle.

[axiom]

It is possible to believe you are manipulating the dream, but it is not possible to actually manipulate the dream.

It is possible to have an experience of developing magical powers. But even in this case, you will not be responsible for the experience. It either happens or it does not happen.

You cannot decide what your thoughts will be in advance of having them. The thing you think of as "you" is not actually capable of doing anything. It has never done anything because it doesn't actually exist.

Thoughts happen, and the appearance of the external world happens. They happen all on their own without any input whatsoever from a "you".

Thoughts may provide some intrinsic illusion that they are involved in some process of control. But they aren't.

Thoughts are nothing more than an occurrence in an immutable chain of events. 

You have always been dead, you just don't know it yet.

Edited March 16, 2022 by axiom

[zurew]

57 minutes ago, Kamo said:

Yeah this phenomena can happen. I personally experienced it. I was walking down the street near my home and I was thinking of a coworker who lives no where near my location, I have not thought of him much outside of work but a sudden realization of him occurred in my mind which i assumed was just a a random thought with a slightly stronger presence. Then a few moments later he came walking down the sidewalk

In my opinion, this is more like a subtle presence detection. Its like you mostly use your 5 senses, but there are more, and maybe unconsciously one of your other senses opened up, and you got a peek into something, what you have never experienced before.

[Kamo]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

In my opinion, this is more like a subtle presence detection. Its like you mostly use your 5 senses, but there are more, and maybe unconsciously one of your other senses opened up, and you got a peek into something, what you have never experienced before.

Yeah, I was thinking the same. A peek into a siddhi. An example perhaps. Functioning of our 6th sense. 

[Fernanda]

I'm also interested about manifestation, because I experienced something like precognition and reality bending. I think a way to explore it more deeply is to consciously accept the fact that you are imagining everything, and from that point on you can develop the ability to imagine something else from moment to moment. It's not about sitting down and simply trying to reimagine the whole universe (although you could do that, technically), it's more like an exploration that can go from small and more plausible things to the ones that will make you astonished. It is about the observation of your own process of imagination in the now, which includes other unusual senses.