Noam Chomsky: A No-Fly Zone Over Ukraine Could Unleash Untold Violence

[vladorion]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not some elegant game they are playing, but Russia seems like they will beat Ukraine.

To the contrary, Russia is losing some pawns while protecting its king. Meanwhile Ukraine's king will probably get his head cut off.

Putin doesn't need to play a flawless or beautiful game. All he has to do is bomb cities, which is easy.

If all he had to do to win was just bomb cities, he could carpet bomb everything and finish it quickly.

It seems that the main problem that slows down their progress is taking control of the cities. That's where the Ukrainian militias are doing much better because they can use civilians as human shields. You don't succeed just by throwing bombs. You need to target the correct objects. And when the enemy are dispersed among civilians, it's pretty difficult.

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by vladorion

[Lyubov]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not some elegant game they are playing, but Russia seems like they will beat Ukraine.

To the contrary, Russia is losing some pawns while protecting its king. Meanwhile Ukraine's king will probably get his head cut off.

Putin doesn't need to play a flawless or beautiful game. All he has to do is bomb cities, which is easy.

He's taking a blunt approach.

My chess example was just there as a way to illustrate he is making ridiculous and sloppy mistakes. A more apt chess example that’s similar to what Russia is doing would be losing material unnecessarily and giving away lots of hanging pawns until the timer  runs out or there is a draw on the board. Which just goes against the image Putin has cultivated as a cool headed, strategic mastermind. There is legacy at play here. I do think it isn’t too presumptuous to assume that they were expecting to play a flawless and beautiful game. Lots of evidence indicates they were expecting a quick siege and less resistance from the locals.  With the way things have unfolded this was not some sort of “dirty bomb” approach where Putin planned to be like some ruthless dictator and just throw half his men into the fire like a mad king. Putin is much more calculated and caring I would say. Russian military casualties are a huge red button issue in Russia and one of the few things that actually hurts his approval there apparently (read this once). I don’t think it’s too presumptuous at all to call what’s unfolding a strategic blunder on Russia’s part. We will have to sit and see what happens. No one has a crystal ball so of course I put little weight into what pundits predict. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Lyubov

[mmKay]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

To the contrary, Russia is losing some pawns while protecting its king. Meanwhile Ukraine's king will probably get his head cut off.

Do you expect any ramifications if Zelenski was to die in the war? 

[Preety_India]

Hopefully Zelensky won't die and this war will come to an end. I just pray that Ukrainians find safety. 

 

[Hello from Russia]

Lol. Obviously why this is slow is because Putin wants to preserve as much civili population as possible and make as little damage as possible to it. For many good reasons (I'm not just whitewashing him)

If he wanted, he could take Ukraine by 2-3 days, our army is quite capable of that. The problem is that it would create a shit ton of collateral damage and would create 10x public outrage than what we have now

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

WW3 with just conventional weapons is still fucking bad, what you on about? No fly zone pretty much means US will start directly attacking Russia's forces. You are insane if you think that's a good idea.

1) Destroying a few Russian planes is not WW3.

2) Letting Putin level Kyiv to the ground is also not a great idea.

Of course it is tricky.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

[Hello from Russia]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

@Hello from Russia I am sorry, but every time someone starts talking about how Russia try to decrease casualties to a minimum I become so angry...

Did you see what you did to Kharkiv and Mariupol? You are bombing residential building, hospitals, churches, maternity homes, kindergardens, schools. You are bombing areas where there is no military infrastructure whatsoever. Not only that, there are videos of Russian soldiers shooting at residential buildings from their tanks, apparently cause it's a very entertaining thing to do... You are shooting down people trying to escape via previously agreed upon green corridors. More than several times you have put in danger nuclear power plants in Chernobyl and Energodar. 

It has been less than 3 weeks and the list of the war crimes that you've already committed is insane.

To me it looks like you are incapable of making any meaningful advancements so you are trying to make Ukrainian government surrender by making innocent people suffer, hoping that they won't be able to take it anymore at some point.

You couldn't take over anything further than borderline regions, so you've decided at least completely turn to dust those instead.

@Something Funny Apparently you lack nuance and seems like brainwashed by western propaganda

Of course there are civil casualties. All I'm saying is that if Putin really wanted, civil casualties could be 10-100-1000x more and the war would be much more quicker

Btw, if you didn't know, neo nazis and ukrainian government make their military bases in these residential buildings on purpose. Though you probably don't care about looking into complexity of a situation, which is sad

Edited March 13, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Hardkill]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not some elegant game they are playing, but Russia seems like they will beat Ukraine.

To the contrary, Russia is losing some pawns while protecting its king. Meanwhile Ukraine's king will probably get his head cut off.

Putin doesn't need to play a flawless or beautiful game. All he has to do is bomb cities, which is easy.

He's taking a blunt approach.

Check out this article from Paul Krugman, who explains why having a country that allows dissent makes the country have more evolved and more sophisticated defense system: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-ukraine-russia-usa.html

[Lyubov]

The fog of war is strong right now. It’s really hard to know what exactly has happened until we can look back and assess it from multiple angles. While I’m sure the Twitter cheerleaders for Ukraine are over blowing their victories, I also now have my reservations of how capable the Russian army is after some absolutely laughable and baffling blunders. 2-3 days my foot… even if it’s a scorched earth approach. 

[Lyubov]

3 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Check out this article from Paul Krugman, who explains why having a country that allows dissent makes the country have more evolved and more sophisticated defense system: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-ukraine-russia-usa.html

I read this, it’s quite good. You can tell their autocratic approach has affected the chain of command and how these complex logistic exercises play out. Russia does not have the foundational system to pull something off like this from what it looks like. They can maybe go scorched earth which I wouldn’t put it past Putin if this starts to threaten his position. Chemical weapons ? He didn’t have a problem with them in Syria when their puppet sicko dropped them on civilians. 

[Arcangelo]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

1) Destroying a few Russian planes is not WW3.

Yes it is, if the ones destroying them are NATO

Did you watch this video@Leo Gura ?:

 

 

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

Yes it is, if the ones destroying them are NATO

It's not WW3, it's just a special operation

I think a hot war could go on pretty long without going nuclear. The nuclear threats are bluffs by both sides.

[Arcangelo]

Thanks for answering Leo. And thank you for all your videos!

[hello1234]

18 hours ago, vladorion said:

because they can use civilians as human shields.

@Something Funny If you look through the threads you will find a lot more of these brainwashed russian “gems” 

[How to be wise]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not WW3, it's just a special operation

I think a hot war could go on pretty long without going nuclear. The nuclear threats are bluffs by both sides.

But as soon as one side (Russia) starts losing, they’re going to have less to lose by going nuclear. If Russia doesn’t go nuclear, the US will quickly defeat it.

[hello1234]

What many people on the forum including Leo are doing 

Edited March 14, 2022 by hello1234

[BlueOak]

@hello1234
Like you. I want to know where the voices are that are telling Russia or China how to adapt or change. The lessons they have to learn, how they can encourage peace rather than war. Why its all one sided. The feedback is so obvious and so bias across the internet experts that I can't take most of it seriously.

The fact Russia has managed to invade another country (again) and have everyone talking about how NATO is bad while doing so is incredible. I mean well done to their media and propaganda teams. They've managed to even convince half the world they are not even in a war. Its brilliant if it wasn't so horrific. 

It does however set the stage for other countries to do the same. That needs to be clear. Other countries can now blame Russia, NATO, China, Iran etc for their own invasions more easily. I realise these are continuations of what other countries have been attempting to achieve, and now Russia has perfected it others can copy the same.

[vizual]

To that extent Russia is like a little child that wants a cookie from the cookie jar but doesn't have the money to buy a cookie from the store. Thus it justifies stealing a cookie by thinking back to their childhood when they saw their big brother stealing a cookie from the jar. While simaltaneously pointing to the big bad imaginary cookie monsters(neo-nazis) that are planning on eating all the cookies, thus the imaginary monsters have to be killed no matter the collateral.

[Lyubov]

A no fly zone would be a disaster though. It’s preposterous why this is even being talked about by some. It would not be possible to enforce. I don’t want the USA playing world police and I don’t want to possibly see ww3 start.