Is beauty really a matter of perception?

[Antor8188]

@Leo Gura if beauty is a matter of perception why does even a single girl not find me attractive? All the girls I have met till now don’t find me attractive. Why?

[Preety_India]

No it's a matter of inspection. Attraction is a construct. You can attract anyone with enough self confidence. Raise your vibration and feel good inside and you'll attract a million people. It's magical. 

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Antor8188 said:

@Leo Gura if beauty is a matter of perception why does even a single girl not find me attractive? All the girls I have met till now don’t find me attractive. Why?

What females are attracted do is not arbitrary, they are attracted to specific things.

Beauty is not what females are attracted to. The problem is that you fundamentally misunderstand female attraction and what women need from men.

Also, more practically, the reason girls haven't yet found you attractive yet is because:

1) You haven't talked to enough girls.

2) You are not good at exhibiting masculine energy, strength, and value which girls are looking for.

3) You are waiting for a girl give you strong indicators of interest and lead you into sex, which will almost never happen. You haven't learned how to approach girls and how to lead them into attraction sex. You are the man, it's your job to convince a girl to sleep with you even if she gives you no indicators of interest from the start.

4) Girls may find you attractive but if you don't lead they'll never even tell you.

You need to learn how attraction works and you need to become proactive about attracting women. You don't wait for them to like you. It shouldn't even matter to you if they like you. You approach the ones you like and you do your thing. Some will hook. Most will not. It's like fishing. You don't sit around wondering if a fish likes you. You just cast your bait over and over again until something hooks. And you make the bait as juicy as possible.

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You need to learn how attraction works and you need to become proactive about attracting women. You don't wait for them to like you. It shouldn't even matter to you if they like you. You approach the ones you like and you do your thing. Some will hook. Most will not. It's like fishing. You don't sit around wondering if a fish likes you. You just cast your bait over and over again until something hooks. And you make the bait as juicy as possible.

@Antor8188 Nice analogy!

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Beauty is not what females are attracted to. The problem is that you fundamentally misunderstand female attraction and what women need from men.

From my experience that is true however there is 1 thing that always baffles me. 

Whenever you hear females talk about guys that they find attractive, they usually say stuff that relates to their looks. I almost never hear girls saying to others stuff like: "He is so confident so i find him attractive". It is always something physical.

Why this imbalance between what they are attracted to and what they talk about ?

Edited March 11, 2022 by Karmadhi

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

@Leo Gura

From my experience that is true however there is 1 thing that always baffles me. 

Whenever you hear females talk about guys that they find attractive, they usually say stuff that relates to their looks. I almost never hear girls saying to others stuff like: "He is so confident so i find him attractive". It is always something physical.

Why this imbalance between what they are attracted to and what they talk about

Because human beings are full of shit

[LSD-Rumi]

@Karmadhi I think because females don't even understand what are they attracted to. They will say he is hot, but why is he hot? They don't know but they sense it.

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

I think because females don't even understand what are they attracted to. They will say he is hot, but why is he hot? They don't know but they sense it.

Most of the times the guy would be objectivelly good looking when they say "he is so hot". Guys you would easily tell. 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Leo Gura

From my experience that is true however there is 1 thing that always baffles me. 

Whenever you hear females talk about guys that they find attractive, they usually say stuff that relates to their looks. I almost never hear girls saying to others stuff like: "He is so confident so i find him attractive". It is always something physical.

Why this imbalance between what they are attracted to and what they talk about ?

1) Stop listening to women on this matter. They are not conscious of what makes them attracted nor will they give you accurate guidance on what is required to attract them. It's like you are asking an enemy castle to tell you its weak points.

2) Once they fall for you, women backwards rationalize that you are handsome and hot.

[Space]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

3) You are waiting for a girl give you strong indicators of interest and lead you into sex, which will almost never happen. You haven't learned how to approach girls and how to lead them into attraction sex. You are the man, it's your job to convince a girl to sleep with you even if she gives you no indicators of interest from the start.

4) Girls may find you attractive but if you don't lead they'll never even tell you.

I'm assuming this applies to the date context as well? I've been on a bunch of dates recently but they all fell flat, weren't sexual/intimate in any way. Would you say this is because I haven't made a move?

I guess i've just been waiting for some sort of indication of interest from the girl (I'm not sure what that would even look like tbh). I never saw any ioi's so I always felt hesitant to make a move, go for the kiss etc. But I would touch their arm or shoulder amongst conversation and I never had a bad reaction from that, so maybe they were down for more.

I also get ridiculously anxious when thinking about making a move beyond light touching/hugging etc, which makes it damn near impossible to escalate. Something I need to push through I guess?

[RMQualtrough]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What females are attracted do is not arbitrary, they are attracted to specific things.

Beauty is not what females are attracted to. The problem is that you fundamentally misunderstand female attraction and what women need from men.

Also, more practically, the reason girls haven't yet found you attractive yet is because:

1) You haven't talked to enough girls.

2) You are not good at exhibiting masculine energy, strength, and value which girls are looking for.

3) You are waiting for a girl give you strong indicators of interest and lead you into sex, which will almost never happen. You haven't learned how to approach girls and how to lead them into attraction sex. You are the man, it's your job to convince a girl to sleep with you even if she gives you no indicators of interest from the start.

4) Girls may find you attractive but if you don't lead they'll never even tell you.

You need to learn how attraction works and you need to become proactive about attracting women. You don't wait for them to like you. It shouldn't even matter to you if they like you. You approach the ones you like and you do your thing. Some will hook. Most will not. It's like fishing. You don't sit around wondering if a fish likes you. You just cast your bait over and over again until something hooks. And you make the bait as juicy as possible.

Bro please lol.

I know looks isn't as important to women in the US though (had a US pal come here to the UK).

But it is just appearance, which is image moreso. But still... Then the social anxious wrecks and aspies turn off women who would like them otherwise.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Space said:

I'm assuming this applies to the date context as well? I've been on a bunch of dates recently but they all fell flat, weren't sexual/intimate in any way. Would you say this is because I haven't made a move?

Of course it's your job to make them intimate/sexual.

It's not just about "making a move". You must set the entire frame of your interaction with her to be intimate/sexual from the very beginning of meeting her. And then you build on it at every chance you get.

You should be looking at her like you're in love with her. Build a bubble of love between you and her. It's you and her against the world.

Quote

I guess i've just been waiting for some sort of indication of interest from the girl (I'm not sure what that would even look like tbh). I never saw any ioi's so I always felt hesitant to make a move, go for the kiss etc.

Yes, you're failing to lead, which in itself is unattractive in a man.

Don't wait for anything or any indicators.

Quote

But I would touch their arm or shoulder amongst conversation and I never had a bad reaction from that, so maybe they were down for more.

If a girl shows up to a date with you, she's willing to sleep with you, as long as you lead it properly.

Quote

I also get ridiculously anxious when thinking about making a move beyond light touching/hugging etc, which makes it damn near impossible to escalate. Something I need to push through I guess?

Yes, you need a lot of escalation experience. Force yourself to escalate quickly and stop doubting yourself. You need to get in touch with your desire for her, and then just act on that desire and take her. Stop hesitating. If her ass turns you on, start squeezing it. If you feel like kissing her, kiss her. Etc. Treat her like your doll. And watch her face and reactions as you escalate to see if it is turning her off. If it's not turning her off, keep escalating. If you over-escalate just back off a bit and start escalating again in a few minutes.

A girl is not going to let you escalate like that unless she likes you.

Fundamentally your mistake is that you are not being true to your desire for her. If you were, you would manhandle her appropriately and this in turn would turn her on. She wants you to claim her as your own. But you are too scared because you're still too weak as a man. So you gotta become a stronger man -- which means you act and lead without a bunch of self-doubt. You've become pussified the way you were raised, so you doubt yourself way too much with women.

For you, you should escalate and even risk getting slapped. Get slapped a few times for over-escalating. This will be good for you. It's better to over-escalate than under-escalate on a date. On a date you should be pulling her panties down. See how much you can get away with.

If you are not occasionally over-escalating, you're being too meek.

[RendHeaven]

lol this man is gonna get canceled so fast

[Yali]

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

On a date you should be pulling her panties down

Have you done this with a girl? This is unacceptable in my mind. @Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Stop listening to women on this matter. They are not conscious of what makes them attracted nor will they give you accurate guidance on what is required to attract them. It's like you are asking an enemy castle to tell you its weak points.

2) Once they fall for you, women backwards rationalize that you are handsome and hot.

I am not talking "advices" from them. I just find it weird. Why would not they say they like confidence but they say they like looks? 0 reason for it.

Sometimes when i am with girls and they mention hot guys i legit tell myself that they re full of shit and do not know what they are talking about. 

[Karmadhi]

9 hours ago, Space said:

I'm assuming this applies to the date context as well? I've been on a bunch of dates recently but they all fell flat, weren't sexual/intimate in any way. Would you say this is because I haven't made a move?

Could also be lack of chemistry. It happens, which is why i would reccomend to get a feel for the girl before you go out with her. If you meet her before hand in another setting talk to her for at least 10 minutes before you decide to even ask her out. You should get a general feeling if you have chemistry with her or not. Experience of talking to a lot of girls helps you developing that feeling if you do not have it naturally.

But if this happens constantly then it is a issue of being too platonic. I used to have this and still do sometimes but i am getting much better at it. What really helps as Leo said is to get in touch with your desire for her and feel 0 shame about it. Your insecurities will be the biggest hinderance here. 

Persoanlly i would just go on some dates with girls you are not really attracted to much just to handle the basic kino escalation and kissing. Trust me if you do it a few times it will get A LOT easier and natural. Then you can proceed with more attractive girls that you would actually be into.

The issue of trying to escalate with girls you are really into is that you will lack the experience of escalating and it will be quite hard becuase you do not want to mess it up. If you are not into the girl much and the process becomes much easier. Then that experience transfers to the girls you like.

That is what happened to me.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

I am not talking "advices" from them. I just find it weird. Why would not they say they like confidence but they say they like looks? 0 reason for it.

Because they just assume a hot guy is confident. They don't understand what it takes for a guy to develop confidence nor do they care. They will just unconsciously screen out meek, unconfident guys.

And if you ask them, of course they will admit they like confidence.

"I want to sleep with an insecure, meek, unconfident man", said no woman ever.

[Hardkill]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because they just assume a hot guy is confident. They don't understand what it takes for a guy to develop confidence nor do they care. They will just unconsciously screen out meek, unconfident guys.

And if ask them, of course they will admit they like confidence.

"I want to sleep with an insecure, meek, unconfident man", said no woman ever.

It's true that when a good-looking guy first approaches a girl, especially one who already is attracted to his looks, she will a first think that he seems hot. However, if that same guy acts and talks either creepy or weird or simply comes off boring then she will lose interest in him by the end of the conversation and feel disappointed by him. I know this from personal experience. When I was a total newbie, I could usually open a set easily probably because I've always been physically attractive, but I would fail to even get a number close because by the end of almost every conversation they would either politely walk away from me or I would end the convo if I recognized that they no longer seemed interested in talking to me anymore or if they said that they were already "seeing someone" or had a boyfriend or a husband (though I am sure a lot of them were honest about that) or what have you. 

Btw, some women say that shy guys can be adorable and sweet. lol

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Hardkill

[Space]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, you need a lot of escalation experience. Force yourself to escalate quickly and stop doubting yourself. You need to get in touch with your desire for her, and then just act on that desire and take her. Stop hesitating. If her ass turns you on, start squeezing it. If you feel like kissing her, kiss her. Etc. Treat her like your doll. And watch her face and reactions as you escalate to see if it is turning her off. If it's not turning her off, keep escalating. If you over-escalate just back off a bit and start escalating again in a few minutes.

Roger that brother! Much appreciated as always!

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Personally i would just go on some dates with girls you are not really attracted to much just to handle the basic kino escalation and kissing. Trust me if you do it a few times it will get A LOT easier and natural. Then you can proceed with more attractive girls that you would actually be into.

The issue of trying to escalate with girls you are really into is that you will lack the experience of escalating and it will be quite hard becuase you do not want to mess it up. If you are not into the girl much and the process becomes much easier. Then that experience transfers to the girls you like.

That is what happened to me.

Thats exactly it. A fear of messing up and looking weird. In day-game, if you mess up and do something weird you can just walk away. On a date, you don't really have that option. So it's the ultimate test of manhood. 

I know I can do it, it's just a matter of pushing past those moments of hesitation and dealing with the physical anxiety.

Potentially got 2 or 3 dates lined up next week so we'll what happens  

[A Fellow Lighter]

On 11/03/2022 at 6:28 AM, Antor8188 said:

@Leo Gura if beauty is a matter of perception why does even a single girl not find me attractive? All the girls I have met till now don’t find me attractive. Why?

If I may answer the more general side of your question.

In my experience, I am always finding beauty to be more of the matter of conception than perception. I'll explain.

You see, as a kid, I had this rather childish belief that every big girl - not slender - is an ugly girl, and that's that. In fact, this was quite a popular notion amongst my juvenile peers. We boys would judge rather harshly the beauty of the girls, including the teachers. Of course, our judgement was limited, seeing how we didn't take a lot of features into consideration - if she was big than she was ugly.

However, quite rapidly as I matured forth in the years, this perception of beauty changed rather drastically. Quite sincerely, I now find big girls to be even more beautiful than small, slender girls. Not that thin girls aren't beautiful anymore, it's only that I prefer bigger girls over the typical, slim waist, model-like girl. In fact, as I soon came to discover, most African-Bantu men find women of a heavy-build more sexually enticing than slimmer women. Quite literally, the thicker the better. 

Anyway, why do I mention all of the above? It is to refute the notion of apparent beauty. Because, whether we admit it or not, society has set standards of beauty which we all are to aspire towards. The only thing is, we don't actually have to aspire to them in order to be found attractive, simply because we are not merely rational beings striving towards an ideal. No, we are, in fact, more energy beings striving towards more energy. We only need to work with our vibration in order to be found attractive almost to anyone, even the same sex if you will.

You have probably heard of the golden ratio - the number that is found in nature¿ Well it is also said to be the number of beauty, “the mathematical symmetry algorithm that underlies our perception of beauty attractiveness.” If we were more rational than energy-orientated (emotional), then our experience of falling in love would almost certainly be a mathematically determined experience. No matter how horrid our partners are behaving toward us, we would find it certainly impossible to fall out of love with them, simply because the math dictates that s/he is too beautiful to be, well, an ugly person(on the inside). In deed, love and beauty could be calculated and predictable just as the laws of nature have proven to be predictable. BUT, that is not the case , for we are energy-beings dealing with energy-patterns, not mathematical patterns the least. 

So, in this context, I say that beauty is more of a concept than a percept. We, almost intuitively (if one has matured beyond the ideals of the media), determine who is a beautiful person, who do we find attractive. Because, believe it or not, it is their energy that we're interested in, it is the aura that they radiate that we find attractive or too low to be attractive, we are attracted to what they have to offer our emotional-spiritual livelihood. Otherwise you would put up with the most abusive relationships, the truly ugliest of the people.

You are most certainly familiar with the saying, “Opposites attract.” This is because the truthness of this statement has rendered its meaning indispensable. It is even evident in our first nature of erotics, the male being attracted to the female and vice versa. But because we are more than physical-mechanical beings (we are energy-beings) it predominates our first nature and becomes even more evident in our masculine and feminine energies which exist in both man and woman. 

We are transcendental beings. We seek what we believe will give us balance, we seek what we believe will offer us harmony and grace. The average man of our time will desire the so-called sexy woman, but not because she is quite mathematically perfect; he desires her because the positive energy she receives from our socio-collective ego continually reinstates her natural confidence that she is worthy of every man(being) and every thing. This boost expresses itself in the way she walks, the way she talks, and the way she generally conducts herself. The man is drawn to her because it is that exact confidence that he wishes to integrate with his energy. Ask any man what he desires and he will tell you anything along the lines of it making him more confident about himself, such as that new sports car or more hair, or whatever. But in essence he actually wants to be more confident, because confidence is more masculine energy than it is feminine energy, confidence is more resourceful in the so-called “Man's World” than it can be in the woman's world - where compassion is virtue. As a wise man once said, “Confidence is Dominance.” So of course he will be attracted to those women whose egos are being boosted by the media. I mean do they not possess the confidence that you wish to integrate with your energy-field which will render you more dominant in your pursuits of everyday life? Of course you do. And then, once you've integrated that energy by communing with your confident partner, you will set out to find a partner who radiates an even higher vibrational frequency that will enable to integrate a higher power of energy. I will stop here for now.

The point that I've attempted to make, rather elaborately, is that beauty is whatever it is that you yearn in its expression, like a moth to the flame, or that weird looking guy in The Hobbit to the jewelry. You conceive beauty according to the energy you need. Energy, quite simply, is any vibration that enables you. Do you not wish to be enabled? You want that which is immediately higher than what you have, And SO DOES THE WOMAN. And just as you have picked up that she radiates at a higher frequency, she will pick up that your frequency is quite low in your struggles with self-confidence. She rejects you not because you are physically unappealing; she rejects you because she will have little to integrate from your energy in your lower vibes of insecurity and whatnot. You wouldn't trade 100 bucks for 1 buck, now would you? It is really that simple and certainly innocent. However, our social media has perverted this simple communing of beings into something that is rather meaningless. 

Please note, I am not rejecting the basics of mathematical symmetry in that which is appealing to the eye. To do this would be to reject our admiration for our crystals in jewel form. No, I am merely speaking to the force of attraction betwixt ourselves. This force of attraction is energy based, not ratio based. 

I hope this brings clarity. You are more than welcome to inquire further should you want more clarification.