Vipassana vs Kriya Yoga

[Jed Haldir]

I have meditated for serveral years but I don't really feel I make progress in some tangible sense, particularly during the session itself.

I have mostly been focusing on stilling thoughts/emptying the mind/concentrating on being present.

I have tried Vipassana but my mind still wanders doing it.

I am looking into Kriya techniques but it seems so overwhelmingly complicated and straining.

Well there is only so much time in a day and I can't spend 4 hours a day just to cover all differnt methods.

I want to stick to one and make progress.

Is Vipassana the way to go or Kriya yoga?

Trying to feel more and more sensations on the body (Vipassana) makes a lot more sense and seems more achievable than "imagining" energy and manipulating the body, breath and mind in all kinds of straining ways which really makes no sense why it should do any good (Kriya yoga).

@Leo Gura has expressed that Vipassana is too soft and Kriya is more potent, but I know of a person whose practice consisted of Vipassana and self-inquiry and that was enough to reach full Nirvana/enlightenment in about 7 years.

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I am frustrated, overwhelmed and guilted by not finding a spiritual practice that generates anything for me. I feel like all the promises of maturing spiritually and raising consciousness or whatever else isn't coming my way, and I don't know what I'm doing anymore. I'm losing faith in this whole thing. I wish I never came into contact with these ideas because I will never be able to forget about it now.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Jed Haldir

[Raptorsin7]

I would say go to a reputable Kriya Yoga lineage and get initiated. I've heard great things from reputable sources about Sadhgurus Kriya Yoga programs.

I think if you got a legit Kriya Yoga practice from a good teacher, not learning on your own from a book, you would be blown away by the potential results. But I haven't done Kriya Yoga so I would say try to confirm what I'm saying with other people.

Don't waste time on practices where are you aren't certain about the results your getting, there are better ways to go about spirituality and practice

[BipolarGrowth]

Vipassana has worked amazingly well for me. I haven’t tried Kriya to be able to compare them for myself though. 

[Jed Haldir]

16 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Vipassana has worked amazingly well for me. I haven’t tried Kriya to be able to compare them for myself though. 

Can you detail what your experience has been like? Can you describe your progress?

[BipolarGrowth]

38 minutes ago, Jed Haldir said:

Can you detail what your experience has been like? Can you describe your progress?

It has improved my baseline significantly, and I can get into states as intense as a moderate dosed psychedelic trip while sober. On more rare occasions, it can be comparable to high dose trips, but those instances usually occur while I’m in a higher baseline state due to shifts along the progress of insight map (usually in the Arising & Passing Away or at the transition from Equanimity to cessation) which you can find described here: https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/table-of-contents/part-iv-insight/30-the-progress-of-insight/

Edited March 10, 2022 by BipolarGrowth

[herghly]

I've tried both.

Both are useful. Don't get concerned about which is better, it's relative, it depends where you are on your journey.

I practised Kriya for years but recently started vipassana again because I've been called to do longer more still sits.

Do what you are interested in and do it for at least 3 months before you switch. Ideally, you do it for 6 months.

 

 

[Demeter]

@Jed Haldir , it is remarkable that you feel guilty about not having a spiritual practice. I think you are being too hard on yourself. 

I had aspired for enlightenment till a few years ago. I was absolutely certain that I would achieve it in this lifetime. Anything else was unthinkable. And here I am now content with the notion that it is not going to be my lot. I might in fact have to be born again to renew my efforts. And that is okay.

I think what brought about that change were experiences with psychedelics in which I gained 'enlightenment' of one kind. I realised that my aspirations for enlightenment and all the pain, distress and effort that went into it was pretty much pointless. I matter nought, and where I go spiritually is equally inconsequential. I remain a part of the great consciousness but my journeys of evolvement or the lack thereof are of no consequence. 

I wonder if anybody else feels this way. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Demeter

[Raptorsin7]

@Demeter Yeah I used to want enlightenment now I could careless.

I just want to grow and accomplish my goals. I think once you connect with genuine spirtual progress and practice, theres no need to chase enlightenment 

[Jed Haldir]

Thanks for your replies everyone!

[_Archangel_]

@Jed Haldir i throw my two cents.
I've been consistently practicing kriya for year and a half, and i can assure your that it certenlay works on the energetic level(after some months  you will litterally feel energy moving and filling up your head when the practice requires it).
The problem is that i got stuck with it don't see eny particular change in consciousness yet + plus, there is not as much information about it as there is on Buddhism, especially fot what regards  the stages of progression.

So i think a will switch to The Mind Illuminated for now.

There is much more information and support online on Buddhism then  on Yoga, and this makes Buddhism more doable alone.

[Andromeda]

Time for some dmt in butthole. 

[BipolarGrowth]

23 hours ago, softlyblossoming said:

@BipolarGrowth Hi, Brandon. This might come as a challenging reply to answer, but would you describe, briefly and in your own words, how you would give vipassana instructions to somebody.

If you think it could help, a framework that I myself and I think others could find helpful would be to divide your answer into three experience or capability levels; i.e., instructions for a...

1. Beginner,
2. Intermediate
3. and Expert meditator.

Based on such impressive results with the technique, I'm curious as to how Brandon does vipassana.

Have a great weekend  

Beginner

Pick a meditation object such as the breath and prepare yourself with the intention to notice that the sensations of the meditation object are not you (anattā/no self/non substantiality of a self residing in the sensations witnessed), they cause dissatisfaction/suffering (dukkha), and they constantly are in flux/changing (anicca/impermanence). Reminding yourself with linguistic thoughts such as “these sensations of the breath are not me”, “these sensations of the breath are dissatisfactory”, and “these sensations of the breath are impermanent” is fine, but try to do this sparingly if possible. Using a linguistic reminder to stay with the intention of the practice is better than losing the intention of the practice and having no linguistic thoughts. 
 

Intermediate

Take the skills gained from the beginner level practice to now start noticing the three characteristics in the entire sensate field of experience (anattā, dukkha, and annica). Feel free to add linguistic self inquiry to this during the first few minutes of meditation before stopping the linguistic form of inquiry to view sensations alone. Self inquiry is an optional part of this. It is not necessary for vipassana practice, but it may improve results for some. Keep in mind that thoughts and anything else created by the mind are also sensations. We are investigating all of experience on an equal footing. There is no need to stop thinking if you are able to simultaneously investigate the sensations of thought. When first doing the intermediate level practice, it may help to still the thinking mind in order to be able to give proper attention to the sensations coming through the other five senses. 
 

Expert

Move from looking at vipassana through the linguistic lens of the three characteristics by dropping notions of anattā, dukkha, and annica and instead hold the intention before meditation to penetrate and see clearly into the nature of all sensations which arise. This step should only be done once intermediate practice has allowed one to clearly feel anattā, dukkha, and annica with ease in essentially any circumstance, including outside of formal meditation sitting practice. 
 

You should be feeling the nature of sensations at this point at an incredibly intimate degree. There should be no gap or separation felt between the practitioner and the sensations present. There should be little to no need for any linguistic reminders such as “this sensation is not me”, “these sensations are dissatisfactory”, and “these sensations are impermanent”. All of this should be running on auto pilot so to speak although those thoughts might not be happening. There should be no need for these linguistic thoughts to be in between the meditator and the sensations present. Similarly to the intermediate level, thoughts can be witnessed as sensations, but if one is truly practicing at this level, thoughts should be no hindrance to intimately feeling the nature (which includes the three characteristics) of all sensations present. 
 

You can also begin focusing attention toward subtle aspect of the sensory field such as space, consciousness/pervading I-am-ness within the entire field of sensory experience, non-linguistic forms of thought, gravity, etc. The purpose of focusing on more subtle aspects of the sensory field of experience is to feel the three characteristics at work within these patterns of sensations. Doing this practice can dissolve the solid-feeling nature of such subtle sensations in order to transcend them. 

[Ulax]

try do nothing meditation and check if you have adhd

[Spence94]

I just did an hour of kriya. I'm on cloud 9 right now. 

[Spence94]

...seriously, total ecstasy wipe out. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Spence94

[Spence94]

Get a teacher. This is too potent to try alone. You'll fuck yourself up.

[Spence94]

Man I gotta try look sober before lunch break ends.

[Ry4n]

59 minutes ago, Spence94 said:

Man I gotta try look sober before lunch break ends.

Hahaha nice 

[itachi uchiha]

@Jed Haldir vipasana is garbage compared to kriya yoga. a 30 min vipasan practice after effect last for 5 min while a 15 min kriya yoga session after effect can last for 8 hours. i throw my vipasana practice out of the window. i had practiced vipasana for 2 years before i started into kriya. kriya yoga can be learned within 1 month. go to the link below, download a file and after that i will assist you. the kriya yoga technique from below link is more simple than vipasana . its far far simple than jc stevens and gamana. i got anxiety attack seeing kriya technique from jc stevens, gamana and ennio. but the kriya technque from below is far simple and is more powerful than ennio,gamana and stevens.

https://www.kriyayoga.com/