Being a western foreigner in China.

[Scholar]

On 9.3.2022 at 4:33 PM, Spence94 said:

I've lived in China for 5 years. I'm not fully fluent in the language but getting there slowly but surely. I will be living here for a few more years to come. Still after 5 years, it can be hard to feel at home here, in myself and with other people. As you can imagine its 99.9%Chinese and 0.1% foreigners. I am well and truly in the minority.

Particularly in the last 3 years since the relations with the US and west have declined and with covid raging abroad much more than it did in China and now the Ukraine crisis; attitudes towards westerners in this country are to put it lightly, at a low point. 

On one level, I'm aware that no matter how fluent my Chinese and how much I understand the culture, I will always be an outsider to the Chinese, and that's fine. Also, I'm aware that I grew up in the UK and that my psychology and worldview is heavily influenced by the society and culture I was raised in and that on an ethnic level I am not Asian, therefore will always feel some level of disconnect in that regard.

I guess I'm after a spiritual perspective on the issue, so that I can accept reality, think about the situation in a more optimistic way, and be at peace with the context that I am living in. I want to more deeply enjoy my time and experience in China, with Chinese culture,  with the Chinese language and the Chinese people, who are more often than not kind hearted, lovely, beautiful and wonderful wise souls. I want to engage with those souls in a way that make them feel more safe and comfortable, because it seems they often have all kinds of fears, judgements, projections, pre conceived ideas and stereotypes of foreigners/ westerners during the rare time they meet/ interact with one. 

As far as I understand, if you want to experience actual Chinese culture you will be better to live in Taiwan, as it has it's traditions still preserved. In China alot of the authentic culture was eradicated through communism. You will also have an easier time to connect to the taiwanese as they are more compatible with western values.

What you currently observe in China is very heavily Stage Red and Blue on the spiral, so you have a unique opportunity to understand these stages of development.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Scholar

[Spence94]

@PurpleTree

10 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

"In 2019, Sterzel moved to Los Angeles because he felt that he would lose his life or be incarcerated in China following threats by ultranationalist Internet users and the government, who accused Sterzel's wife of being a spy and a threat to national security.[18]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Sterzel

 

 

Wow. Yeah I think a similar thing happened to C-Milk and ADV China and their Chinese wives. They used to drive around China on motorbikes with helmet cams and make Vlogs. I don't think they got deported but were threatened with deportation and had threats made to them by nationalists so they left. Their videos used to get hundreds of thousands of views. 

[Spence94]

@Scholar Thanks for the response. Yeah a lot of westerners enjoy living in Taiwan a lot more. I live the far West of China, Sichuan, it's still pretty authentic here with a lot of rich history and culture and even spirituality. It's definitely a lot more 'Chinese' than the rest of China. lol.

10 hours ago, Scholar said:

.

What you currently observe in China is very heavily Stage Red and Blue on the spiral, so you have a unique opportunity to understand these stages of development.

A large chunk modern Chinese society is stage orange too. At least it's becoming more and more orange.

Green and yellow and turquoise feels non existent in my experience, apart from the odd enlightened taichi/kungfu master and Buddhist monk floating about. I've been fortunate to meet one or two of them in my time here. 

But thanks for the POV. I guess I do have a unique first hand experience of these red and blue stages. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Spence94

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

"In 2019, Sterzel moved to Los Angeles because he felt that he would lose his life or be incarcerated in China following threats by ultranationalist Internet users and the government, who accused Sterzel's wife of being a spy and a threat to national security.[18]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Sterzel

 

 

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. I'm glad he left.

[Hardkill]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. I'm glad he left.

Do you think China will still prefer the USA to be the main trading partner over Russia because of China's dislike for the Russian-Ukraine war?

Edited March 13, 2022 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Do you think China will still prefer the USA to be the main trading partner over Russia because of China's dislike for the Russian-Ukraine war?

I think China does not give a flying fuck about Ukraine. They will trade with whoever gives them money and doesn't impinge on their territorial goal of dominating Asia.

[Hardkill]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I think China does not give a flying fuck about Ukraine. They will trade with whoever gives them money and doesn't impinge on their territorial goal of dominating Asia.

So, then why is Xi Jinping wanting Putin to making peaceful negotiations instead of going to war with Ukraine?

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

So, then why is Xi Jinping wanting Putin to making peaceful negotiations instead of going to war with Ukraine?

Probably because it's bad for business and China is getting pressure from the US and EU trading partners.

[Spence94]

8 hours ago, Hardkill said:

So, then why is Xi Jinping wanting Putin to making peaceful negotiations instead of going to war with Ukraine?

@Hardkill They want to maintain a position of neutrality in order to benefit their economic interests in the short and long term. China wants the world to buy into the idea that a prosperous China will mean a prosperous world. They do this by actually putting money on the table instead of talking about it. By advocating for the war in the Ukraine, China will isolate the world from itself just like Russia. They do not want that at all, they want to control and gain from the global economy not isolate itself from it.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Spence94

[Hardkill]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Probably because it's bad for business and China is getting pressure from the US and EU trading partners.

Ah, I see. That’s probably also why the CCP doesn’t want to outright condemn Putin’s actions and decisions that he’s made. The Chinese government officials are now stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[Spence94]

@Hardkill Putin was at the Beijing Winter Olympics a month ago shaking hands with Xi. They just signed a $137 billion dollar gas deal and are building a new pipeline from Russia to China to supply China with gas for the next 30 years. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Spence94

[Girzo]

China also needs food from Russia. Chinese people are expecting low crops yields a second year in a row and Russia is an exporter of grains.

[Hardkill]

15 hours ago, Spence94 said:

@Hardkill Putin was at the Beijing Winter Olympics a month ago shaking hands with Xi. They just signed a $137 billion dollar gas deal and are building a new pipeline from Russia to China to supply China with gas for the next 30 years. 

 

10 hours ago, Girzo said:

China also needs food from Russia. Chinese people are expecting low crops yields a second year in a row and Russia is an exporter of grains.

Yeah, but I bet that Russia’s entire economy will end up way down through the toilet and into the sewers. The country is very likely to suffer a long and severe economic depression and China will not be able to bail them out at all.

[Girzo]

@Hardkill Yeah, of course. I don't even think China would want a stronger Russia necessarily, but they have a lot of business to do with them, so they are not going to condemn the war by putting up sanctions.

[Hardkill]

46 minutes ago, Girzo said:

@Hardkill Yeah, of course. I don't even think China would want a stronger Russia necessarily, but they have a lot of business to do with them, so they are not going to condemn the war by putting up sanctions.

Yeah, I agree. 

It’s going to be very interesting to see what happens to the economy in Eastern Asia and Eastern Europe in the coming years.