Masturbating/porn while in relationships?

[Raptorsin7]

Porn and masturbation are cancers to your energy and mind. 

Emotionally and spirituality healthy people wouldn't watch porn and masterbate, because the shadow drivers for the behavior can be resolved.

But no one's perfect and most people aren't living optimally so we all have to make compromises.  

How would you feel if your girlfriend had a small meth problem? I'd argue porn and masterbation is a microcosm of that genre of behavior 

[something_else]

15 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Porn and masturbation are cancers to your energy and mind. 

So are rampant horniness and sexual dissatisfaction

[Raptorsin7]

53 minutes ago, something_else said:

So are rampant horniness and sexual dissatisfaction

There are alternative solutions to horniness and sexual dissatisfaction than porn. 

It's like eating only mcdonalds to satisfy your hunger and desire for pleasurable food. 

[somegirl]

@Raptorsin7 those things are only bad/harmful if you make them so. 

[Raptorsin7]

@somegirl Is meth only harmful if you make it so?

[zurew]

14 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Is meth only harmful if you make it so?

Do you think that meth is inherently bad/harmful?

[somegirl]

@Raptorsin7 You're comparing two totally different things. Masturbating and watching porn is not harmul to your body. You can't become ill from it, whereas you can die from overly consuming drugs...

 

[something_else]

38 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@somegirl Is meth only harmful if you make it so?

This is a silly comparison. Meth is biologically dangerous and you can point to concrete statistics about its danger and lethality. You can do the same with fast food.

However you cannot with porn. No one, as far as I'm aware, has died from masturbating or watching porn. Therefore comparing these things is not really valid. The dangers of porn and masturbation are debatable, psychological, and far more subtle. As with anything that is purely a psychological, what you believe is often far more important than reality. If you believe porn/masturbation hurts you then it will. If you believe it doesn't then it won't

Edited March 10, 2022 by something_else

[mojsterr]

2 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Porn and masturbation are cancers to your energy and mind. 

 

I think you can get cancer if you don't masturbate

[Raptorsin7]

47 minutes ago, zurew said:

Do you think that meth is inherently bad/harmful?

In very select circumstances maybe it could be useful, but in 99% of cases it's being used in a harmful way

[Raptorsin7]

You guys are free to masterbate and watch porn, but don't delude yourselves into thinking it isn't harmful

[somegirl]

@Raptorsin7 ?

[something_else]

8 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

You guys are free to masterbate and watch porn, but don't delude yourselves into thinking it isn't harmful

How is it harmful? Please give me some concrete examples. You just keep reiterating that it's harmful, like it's self evident

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, something_else said:

How is it harmful? Please give me some concrete examples. You just keep reiterating that it's harmful, like it's self evident

It is self evident when you pay attention to the effects on your system.

Do you really believe there are no negative consequences to watching modern porn? Don't you think it would affect how you view woman, how your brain responds to dopamine and pleasure stimuli in your environment, etc?

[something_else]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

It is self evident when you pay attention to the effects on your system

What if it's just placebo?

4 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

how your brain responds to dopamine and pleasure stimuli in your environment, etc?

The dopamine thing is the goto no-fap argument but afaik there isn't really any biological evidence behind it. Personally I don't really buy it. Your body is literally built to fuck as often as it possibly can. A gene that depletes your dopamine reception after a whole bunch of sex would be super detrimental to survival, and jerking off to porn is just an abstraction of having a whole bunch of sex

I've noticed watching porn makes me want to try more interesting things sexually and average sex becomes a bit boring, but I wouldn't say that's necessarily bad. I would say it's increased my bar for good, exciting sex

Quote

Don't you think it would affect how you view woman,

I don't really understand the argument that it affects how you view women. Men are going to see women sexually whether they jerk off or not. It's up to your own mind to override that when need be. If you're a horny dog who hasn't came in several months you're going to uncontrollably see women far more sexually than a dude who jerked off last night

[Raptorsin7]

@something_else I can't convince you, but if you pay attention to the effect of porn and masterbation on your well being you'll notice it.

 

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

In very select circumstances maybe it could be useful, but in 99% of cases it's being used in a harmful way

I can agree with framing it that way.

[zurew]

21 minutes ago, something_else said:

The dopamine thing is the goto no-fap argument but afaik there isn't really any biological evidence behind it. Personally I don't really buy it. Your body is literally built to fuck as often as it possibly can. A gene that depletes your dopamine reception after a whole bunch of sex would be super detrimental to survival, and jerking off to porn is just an abstraction of having a whole bunch of sex

So you are saying that it can easily have negative side effects if its used too much.For example, the lack of motivation, exhaustness, feeling depressed, brainfog. The real problem is, that it is highly addictive. Of course there are a lot of things that are addictive. The difference is that porn is super easy to reach out to . If you have something that is highly addictive and easily reachable for everyone, then it could cause some problems. if there is an argument (i don't know really if it is true or not) that porn is as addictive as heroin or closely addictive, then we can fairly say, that it can have or it has huge societal consequences, as any other highly addictive substance or action.

 

29 minutes ago, something_else said:

I don't really understand the argument that it affects how you view women. Men are going to see women sexually whether they jerk off or not. It's up to your own mind to override that when need be. If you're a horny dog who hasn't came in several months you're going to uncontrollably see women far more sexually than a dude who jerked off last night

It can give you false beliefs about how real sex works or how it should work. You basically don't need to work for to have sex or to ejaculate, because you can access porn without basically any effort.There are more and more people, who can't get aroused, because only porn can make them aroused. Now, this can be questioned whether it is because of porn, or because of something else, but i think its worth to notice it.  

Why would you strive for dating woman or to work to be able to have sex, if as the time goes, more and more addictive porn is easily accessible for you? Vr porn is getting more and more advanced, not even mentioning deepfake porn. Deepfake porn even in its current form is addictive as hell. Probably that business will be very very big, especially combining with vr. We will be at a point where porn will be much better and more enjoyable than real sex. Will it be bad? I don't know, but i am sure that it will has its on consequences, that we are not contemplating about right now.

 

So i don't want to suggest here, that porn in an of itself is inherently bad. It can be used healthily just as anything else, but to say that it doesn't have different any  consequences on society, especially on the new upcoming generations, i think is false. There are people who have problem with porn, i think its worthwile to investigate what are the real underlying factors of that.

[something_else]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

If you have something that is highly addictive and easily reachable for everyone, then it could cause some problems. if there is an argument (i don't know really if it is true or not) that porn is as addictive as heroin or closely addictive, then we can fairly say, that it can have or it has huge societal consequences, as any other highly addictive substance or action.

I agree it's addictive. But just because something is addictive doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. If you watch porn every day but it doesn't harm your life in any way, how is that a problem? Water is also highly addictive

1 hour ago, zurew said:

It can give you false beliefs about how real sex works or how it should work. You basically don't need to work for to have sex or to ejaculate, because you can access porn without basically any effort.There are more and more people, who can't get aroused, because only porn can make them aroused. Now, this can be questioned whether it is because of porn, or because of something else, but i think its worth to notice it.  

It's worth noticing. But I suspect this isn't that common. Most guys are horny as fuck. Porn has helped me find the things that turn me on the most, the things that drive me absolutely crazy. If anything porn actually makes me more aroused overall, because it drives me to go out and experience sexuality for real. And yea, that means I don't get turned on as much by just some basic sex, but so what? I want great sex, I don't want basic boring sex

1 hour ago, zurew said:

Why would you strive for dating woman or to work to be able to have sex, if as the time goes, more and more addictive porn is easily accessible for you? Vr porn is getting more and more advanced, not even mentioning deepfake porn. Deepfake porn even in its current form is addictive as hell. Probably that business will be very very big, especially combining with vr. We will be at a point where porn will be much better and more enjoyable than real sex. Will it be bad? I don't know, but i am sure that it will has its on consequences, that we are not contemplating about right now.

No amount of porn will ever satisfy the urge to fuck a real girl. It just won't. So yea, if you're using porn to cope with not being able to get a real girl then that's a problem

1 hour ago, zurew said:

So i don't want to suggest here, that porn in an of itself is inherently bad. It can be used healthily just as anything else, but to say that it doesn't have different any  consequences on society, especially on the new upcoming generations, i think is false. There are people who have problem with porn, i think its worthwile to investigate what are the real underlying factors of that.

Yes, it's worth investing, I agree. My issue is primarily with no-fappers who preach about how it's so terrible for everyone and it's destroying our minds based primarily on their own anecdotal experience which is most likely rife with placebo

[zurew]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

I agree it's addictive. But just because something is addictive doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. If you watch porn every day but it doesn't harm your life in any way, how is that a problem? Water is also highly addictive

Its only bad, if we put in in the right context, the context being: a soceity, where more and more people are depressed and lonely. Such people will try anything to fight suicidal thoughts, lonelyness, depression etc. So, because porn is highly addictive, and easily reachable, it can be a self-dectructive tool for these people. Again, here you can say that it is not exceptional to porn, and yes you are right, however, it is one tool that can make their life worse, due to the fact that it is easy to use it. So this line of argument can be used for any addictive thing, but i don't think that it can be totally dismissed. If we see a soceity, where more people are depressed and suicidal compare to the 'normal' ones, then it can become a thing/tool which is destructive for society due to the fact, that it has negative effect on most people (on suicidal, depressed, negative people).

So the argument is that,if we know, that it has negative effects on certain types of people, and society has more of those kinds of people, compared to other types, then it is a destructive tool.

Is totally banning  is the solution? I don't think so, but in the context,what i mentioned above it is a real problem, and it can be considered as 'bad'. I want to add, that you can't find nearly as much people with a water addiction problem, so i don't think its a good comparison . 

1 hour ago, something_else said:

If anything porn actually makes me more aroused overall, because it drives me to go out and experience sexuality for real. And yea, that means I don't get turned on as much by just some basic sex, but so what? I want great sex, I don't want basic boring sex

The question is, that would you be able to get aroused if porn did not exist? Because it seems, not just you but more and more people are depended on porn.

1 hour ago, something_else said:

No amount of porn will ever satisfy the urge to fuck a real girl. It just won't. So yea, if you're using porn to cope with not being able to get a real girl then that's a problem

If fucking with a simulated girl, which is as good as a real one or even better to have sex with it, (because you can customize how it should look like for your needs, and what actions it needs to do), then i think it can replace real sex. We will see in the near future how this will play out.

1 hour ago, something_else said:

Yes, it's worth investing, I agree. My issue is primarily with no-fappers who preach about how it's so terrible for everyone and it's destroying our minds based primarily on their own anecdotal experience which is most likely rife with placebo

Yes, i understand. Its a far-fetched thing to say that it is bad for everyone. I think it is a tool, that can be used in various ways, but i don't beleive it is a neutral "technology", its has its own impacts on society and on our thinking just by existing.

Edited March 10, 2022 by zurew