Understanding Russia & Putin

[hello1234]

2 minutes ago, somegirl said:

What you hear on western media is called propaganda. Did you hear those reporters talk? They use adjectives like "unprovoked war", "evil Putin" etc. That kind of talk doesn't contribute to better understanding of a situatioin, but honestly I didn't expect from media to be unbiased. Lazy people like to be told what to believe.

Russia is not innocent either, I mentioned that in previous comment, both sides have blood on their hands. I'm just saying that NATO has been doing what Russia is doing right now, for centuries. They don't have a right to say shit now. They only care for people's lives when it's convinient for them. This is what pisses me off the most. A literal murderer talling others that murdering is bad.

Why didn't people criticize NATO for bombing Yugoslavia which was btw against International Law ? Because they want to turn the blind eye only when it's convinient for them.
 

And I agree.
It's just sad that NATO will never take accountability for their commited atrocities because they are more powerful.

[hello1234]

These “NATO is more/just as evil” claims are basically same to straight out supporting the war and actually going and killing innocent children and people in Ukraine. 

Many of the so called western “intellectuals” think they are being “edgy” and “wise” to use this war to point out “western hypocrisies” in these overly simplified unnuanced ways.

In reality what it does is just give people a “peace of mind” and an excuse not to do anything about the war and genocide of innocent people - “well, NATO has done some bad things too, fair is fair, yawn, let me proceed with my nice day now”. This is indeed a privilege of all privileges.

Edited March 20, 2022 by hello1234

[Ryan_047]

Some replies in this forum are a prime example of why actual NATO/USA criticism is not taken seriously or brushed aside as dumb Russian/Chinese propaganda.

There are people claiming that the Russian military is not actually losing in Ukraine, people that said Hitler was a good leader and saved Germany and everyone loved him, people that said Belarus joined Russia willingly, people that said that the Euro Maidan protests in Ukraine were a CIA coup, Ukrainians shooting their own residential buildings because they're stupid and don't know how to use weapons, Russia never started wars and USA starting all of them, sharing of official Russian media outlets which are clearly as the light of day just propaganda for Putin's regime, Russia being an idle victim, Russia never funded extremist movements across Europe, Ukraine helped Nazi Germany in WW2 and thus it deserves its fate... and the list can go on and on... not to mention those who started trolling when they lost an argument. 

Please, RESEARCH before you speak. Even Leo said in a comment that Ukraine "did nothing" until this war, which is a myopic view. You can't have a coherent and nuanced point of view if you swing the pendulum all the way from Western propaganda to Russian propaganda. Just because Russia has been the victim in the past of Western abuse, that doesn't mean that everything they're saying now is the absolute truth and that all Ukrainians are Nazis that hide in civilian buildings and thus provoke the Russian army to bomb them. 

Yes, NATO/US bombed the shit out of Serbia for weird reasons, orchestrated coups against democratically elected governments (hypocrisy much?), squashed organic leftist movements in the name of democracy and so forth. But is this really the point of this discussion or not? 

It's war, there will be abuses on both sides. That's what war is. Let's actually see what these abuses are (on both sides), what is the history that led up to this point, what their leaders are doing and so forth. The discussion will serve no purpose if all we're doing is parrot propaganda and point out the dumb shit NATO once did. If NATO invaded Ukraine instead should we have talked about what Russia has done wrong in its entire history? 

 

[BlueOak]

2 hours ago, Ryan_047 said:

should we have talked about what Russia has done wrong in its entire history? 

 

Try it, you'll be suprised how unaware most people are of what Russia does and has done around the globe. Like training, arming and support Iraq for example, Which is no small reason why Iraq was able to invade Kuwait, providing them equipment and what led to the US response.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq–Russia_relations - Referenced at the bottom.

In the west they don't have much of a clue either. It helps fill in the gaps as to why things are as they are. Two sides of a story that most people only want one side of. By giving them the other it normalizes the distance or polarity of the opinions people have.

At first you might get well NATO is bad for X,Y,Z reasons and I say yes or maybe expand as to why they happened, and then tell them how Russia has done A,B,C. After that the conversation usually concludes. A completion of self, or two sides of something.

[Lyubov]

NATO literally became relevant again the moment Putin invaded. All he had to do was sit in his big ass mansion and lobby the European energy sector and get them really hooked on Russian gas. He woulda been able to get NATO to look more and more unnecessary and after another republican presidential term or two it’d probably have been disbanded. Instead he shot himself in the foot. NATO ain’t being disbanded now. Part of this was definitely an imperialist conquest and to revenge the fall of the Soviet Union in Putin’s mind. 

[vladorion]

7 hours ago, hello1234 said:

These “NATO is more/just as evil” claims are basically same to straight out supporting the war and actually going and killing innocent children and people in Ukraine. 

Many of the so called western “intellectuals” think they are being “edgy” and “wise” to use this war to point out “western hypocrisies” in these overly simplified unnuanced ways.

In reality what it does is just give people a “peace of mind” and an excuse not to do anything about the war and genocide of innocent people - “well, NATO has done some bad things too, fair is fair, yawn, let me proceed with my nice day now”. This is indeed a privilege of all privileges.

Have you personally done anything about all the other wars that have happened/are happening around the world, or did you just proceed with your nice day until it came to your country?

[vladorion]

 

[PurpleTree]

23 hours ago, somegirl said:

I am not from Russia, and I don't even have family there or friends for that matter, I am just able to see hypocrisy.

but you are serbian and serbs generally love russia and hate nato.

 

 

not saying nato is wonderful either btw.

Edited March 21, 2022 by PurpleTree

[somegirl]

@PurpleTree Where are you from? Since you're not from the US.

 

Btw most of the the people do, for the same reasons Ukraine hates Russia right now. You would too if something like bombing happened to you.

You seem to only reply to me when you want to mention the fact that I live in Serbia or something that has to do with it lol.

I am detached from my nationality, I don't even think about it. I just happened to be born here.

Edited March 21, 2022 by somegirl

[PurpleTree]

31 minutes ago, somegirl said:

@PurpleTree Where are you from? Since you're not from the US.

 

Btw most of the the people do, for the same reasons Ukraine hates Russia right now. You would too if something like bombing happened to you.

You seem to only reply to me when you want to mention the fact that I live in Serbia or something that has to do with it lol.

I am detached from my nationality, I don't even think about it. I just happened to be born here.

western europe

 

Well because you said "i'm not russian i don't even have family there" as if your country didn't have very strong ties to russia, especially culturally.  "You just happen to be born there" but clearly you're very influenced by their mindset, if you can't see that then i don't know what to tell you. As if you're just woke and that's why you're not buying into western propaganda if most of your country is pro russia and nato critical, you're just following the herd of your country.

Clearly i'm also influenced by the western european mindset it is what it is. But i'd rather have democracy, freedom of speech, the right to critique the government than a putin all day everyday. 

I have nothing against russians nor serbs btw. not that i know of, but if we're choosing teams i'll choose team west

Edited March 21, 2022 by PurpleTree

[Arcangelo]

24 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

But i'd rather have democracy, freedom of speech, the right to critique the government than a putin all day everyday. 

Amen

[somegirl]

31 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Well because you said "i'm not russian i don't even have family there" as if your country didn't have very strong ties to russia, especially culturally.  "You just happen to be born there" but clearly you're very influenced by their mindset, if you can't see that then i don't know what to tell you. As if you're just woke and that's why you're not buying into western propaganda if most of your country is pro russia and nato critical, you're just following the herd of your country.

Clearly i'm also influenced by the western european mindset it is what it is. But i'd rather have democracy, freedom of speech, the right to critique the government than a putin all day everyday. 

I have nothing against russians nor serbs btw. not that i know of, but if we're choosing teams i'll choose team west

I don't claim that I'm "woke", I'm offering different perspective that is different from the the west narrative (that is btw disturbingly biased also). Kinda balances it out in the end.

I won't deny that I'm influenced by environment (just like you are and you admit it which is fair enough) but also it's not like those things people are hurt and angry about here didn't happen. I have different perspective because different things have been told to me, but they were also true stories. It's not like they were telling me lies. They told me true things that NATO has done, not just here but everywhere else.

Well I didn't know we were choosing in which social system we would love to live in. I would also choose west and its democratic values. It's not like I would love to live in Russia just because I said NATO sucks. There's a difference. 

[K Ghoul]

52 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

 

I have nothing against russians nor serbs btw. not that i know of, but if we're choosing teams i'll choose team west

And I’m team Russia  Check this out Purp:

 

[Blackhawk]

It's really fucking unbelievable how stupid this thread is because some damn Russia/Putin lovers and USA/Nato/west haters are ruining it. Seriously.. this thread is disgusting.

I can't even find words..

Innocent people are getting killed etc. by Russia, and what do the people here do? Defend Russia.

You picked the wrong time to tell everyone about how good you think Putin is and how bad Nato is. Totally inappropriate, to put it mildly.

And don't come with the bullshit "both sides are equally bad". They are not.

I think Leo would have banned the worst anti-west people here if he hadn't been Russian.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Blackhawk

[vladorion]

 

How this war started in 2014.

This is the government that the West is supporting.

Edited March 21, 2022 by vladorion

[somegirl]

@Blackhawk you simply cannot be helped 

[Blackhawk]

3 minutes ago, somegirl said:

@Blackhawk you simply cannot be helped 

It's you who simply cannot be helped.

[PurpleTree]

8 hours ago, somegirl said:

I don't claim that I'm "woke", I'm offering different perspective that is different from the the west narrative (that is btw disturbingly biased also). Kinda balances it out in the end.

I won't deny that I'm influenced by environment (just like you are and you admit it which is fair enough) but also it's not like those things people are hurt and angry about here didn't happen. I have different perspective because different things have been told to me, but they were also true stories. It's not like they were telling me lies. They told me true things that NATO has done, not just here but everywhere else.

Well I didn't know we were choosing in which social system we would love to live in. I would also choose west and its democratic values. It's not like I would love to live in Russia just because I said NATO sucks. There's a difference. 

i was much more critical of nato before this attack.

and thought most us troops should go home, europeans should handle their own security business and include russia but now i think we really do need nato so that these smaller eastern european countries won't be gobbled up by russia. still not a huge fan especially after libya etc.

8 hours ago, K Ghoul said:

And I’m team Russia  Check this out Purp:

 

seems pretty obvious and "normal" that "russophobia" grows when they're being attack by russia, or nah?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

listening to this now

 

[vladorion]

What I'm saying is the truth.

It's the truth simply because it's the truth. End of story. There is no complexity here. No amount of new information is going to change my mind.

If you disagree, you're a Putler sympathizer and a horrible person and should be canceled. 

[K Ghoul]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

seems pretty obvious and "normal" that "russophobia" grows when they're being attack by russia, or nah?

 

yep, especially with this one-sided narrative that presents the events at a certain angle haha

Regardless, finally some light at the end of the tunnel - I’m leaving the West.