Understanding Russia & Putin

[K Ghoul]

 

Putin with a dog 

 

[Epikur]

 

[Godhead]

4 hours ago, somegirl said:

If this image was an art, I would call it a "Hypocrisy".

Edit: Would just add "Ukraine" under Russia's list, because that's what's unfortunately happening today. An attempt to subdue a whole country.

 

So we are just sharing pro-Russian propaganda now? yikes, this forum is devolving.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Godhead

[vizual]

@Godhead There are a couple of mindless Russobots active on this forum, don't mind them too much. They'll go away eventually.

In the mean time, if you want to have a laugh watch this:

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by vizual

[K Ghoul]

Zhirinovsky 2014 speech

 

[somegirl]

@Godhead@hello1234 hahahah.

When all you're consuming and listening to is Western news, anything that goes outside that frame is propaganda. 

Nobody tries to go beyond and see things from multiple angles and understand other's perspecrives.

Realize that nobody is so-called "good", not NATO, and not even Russia. Everybody has blood on their hands. Except, NATO gets away with it a little more than others because it is more powerful and they control media more. And what irks me is that they invade counties for so called "noble reasons" (to spread democracy and freedom). 

I am not from Russia, and I don't even have family there or friends for that matter, I am just able to see hypocrisy.

Edited March 20, 2022 by somegirl

[somegirl]

6 hours ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Many of these conficts weren't even US conflicts exclusively - countries like Soviet Union and China also participated.

?

I didn't go through every single country on that list to check its accuracy. The point is that the list is long and NATO has no credibility to tell anyone that others are evil, as they have invaded and killed innocent civilians themselves, with an excuse that they are doing a good thing.  Ask people of Libya for example if they were better off before or after US involvement.

Edited March 20, 2022 by somegirl

[somegirl]

@vizual

This thread is called "Understanding Russia and Putin"

I don't condone the war, it's freaking awful, but it irks me to see people who listen to only one side of the story and form an opinion based on that. Do you know that media has an agenda and a bias? It's literally sculping your world view. 

But I don't blame you. If I lived comfortably in the West like you, I would also be lazy to see the other side. It's much easier to simplify reality and let Media do the job for you tell you who to hate and who to root for.

Edited March 20, 2022 by somegirl

[Lyubov]

Some analysts are saying it’s starting to reach a stalemate and that Russia doesn’t have the resources, manpower, logistics, etc to take Kyiv or Odessa. I think we will find out if this is true in the coming week. What a clown show. Really goes to show just how misleading propaganda and raw numbers are. You have to factor in training, will, leadership, etc. A lot more than just raw numbers and resources goes into an effective military. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Lyubov

[Godhead]

8 hours ago, somegirl said:

Nobody tries to go beyond and see things from multiple angles and understand other's perspecrives.

Spreading propaganda because it goes against the mainstream narrative and priding yourself because you are so "multiperspectival" is quite silly if you ask me. The true Hypocrisy is, that the image portrays Russia as some saintly angel, which of course is rather ridiculous (Chechnya, Georgia, Moldova, Afghanistan...). And I'm really getting tired of people complaining about "Hypocrisy". Look, 2 things can be bad at the same time. Only because the U.S. did some nasty shit and got away with it, doesn't mean that Russia should now too. The thing that pisses me off the most is that people who share images like that never gave a single shit about what happened in any of the conflict areas the U.S. was involved.

It's literally the "all lives matter" take. 

[Lyubov]

 

[BlueOak]

Propaganda is one or a small spectrum of perspectives echoed across a large platform. Its not insidious on its own. Its only an issue when it is all that is displayed. Recently it was told to me Russian people prefer having a small spectrum of opinions displayed. While its obvious the west as a collective prefers a wider variety being displayed but still having it limited.

Every government limits what others can see and what is suppressed but there is more allowed in democratic countries. Which is what makes them democratic, as opposed to having one perspective which makes autocratic countries. There is not a huge difference here, but there is a difference and that has to be acknowledged to be the case.

[hello1234]

9 hours ago, somegirl said:

@Godhead@hello1234 hahahah.

When all you're consuming and listening to is Western news, anything that goes outside that frame is propaganda. 

Nobody tries to go beyond and see things from multiple angles and understand other's perspecrives.

Realize that nobody is so-called "good", not NATO, and not even Russia. Everybody has blood on their hands. Except, NATO gets away with it a little more than others because it is more powerful and they control media more. And what irks me is that they invade counties for so called "noble reasons" (to spread democracy and freedom). 

I am not from Russia, and I don't even have family there or friends for that matter, I am just able to see hypocrisy.

Haha you don’t have any perspectives, you’re just clueless. Saying that Russia was not involved in any wars is just laughable, did you not go to school?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

You’re from Serbia, other than Belarus, that’s the only country in Europe that full on supports russia and spreads russian propaganda. How you can keep thinking you’re better than everyone here is a mystery to me. 

Here’s a list of wars Russia’s been involved in/started since Soviet Union collapsed: 

Edited March 20, 2022 by hello1234

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Gonzalo Lira is really impressing me with his analysis.

 

[somegirl]

5 hours ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

You're claiming that both Russia and NATO are wrong, but you don't really mean that - you are biased against NATO - US more specifically.

Maybe. And most of the people here are openly biased against Russia and deem Putin as crazy lunatic who just so happened to wake up one day and decide to bomb Ukraine because he was bored and wanted to sprinkle some drama in his life (which is ridiculous). Reality is much more complex than that, shocker. But people are lazy, they want truth to be served to them, they want to be told who to hate and who to love. And when someone presents to them a different POV, they call it propaganda.

Again, any war is awful and as you already mentioned, I know some of the stories people here were telling me because they experienced it first hand and it makes me sad and angry that it happened. So I symphatize with Ukranians. Civilians were always the ones who were sacrificed in any war. 

[BlueOak]

@Husseinisdoingfine

Its obvious he's got the hate inside himself that he doesn't want the other to have. Life works in the opposite way. What you have you will find. I will expand more.

Russia will not hit all of the weapons, that is obvious because those weapons are already in there all around the country, and continue to be delivered from many sources. There were not 10's of thousands of Anti Tank, several thousand Anti Air, Millions of clips of Ammunition and guns in one building. There were not 30-40 thousand foreign fighters, which is an estimate of the Ukrainian and Georgian Legions strength combined in that one area. This is something Putin can't accept when he asks the country to disarm, its simply practically not possible to do so.

The way this strike was likely done with such accuracy is with a spotter on the ground. Sure its a message, but this is the ongoing strategy and a course that was chosen from all nations that were in opposition to the war. Reversing that now is impossible. Much like Russia can't afford to lose, NATO can't afford to lose and Ukraine definitely can't afford to lose. That's the combined problem all of them face and leads into his next point.

His take on failure and leadership was excellent. People still value image over substance. His take on the air superiority yes that's partially true in the US, its more that they usually train with combined arms but not exclusively. The same is applied to Russia and not knowing how to fight without a proxy infantry to support, because they always have done. Again not exclusively but its a factor. Their own infantry are conscripts and often have bad equipment like light soft top vehicles that are not doing very well. Their logistics outside of rail are appalling, everyone has their failures. They instead prefer to fight supporting someone else's infantry in an easily supplied area.

Many people have to look at their opponent as animals or insane, its the only way they can pull the trigger. What usually happens is as they go up the ranks, the ones that do, can at least see them as rational and begin to counter what they would rationally do. He's not fully in reality here because both sides have more rational generals and commanders in positions of power who have failed plenty to learn and get where they are. Politicians and News Anchors, sure those people are like paper to blow around in the wind these days. Sadly Putin surrounded himself with Yes Men, which he has since fired several of, many Autocrats that fall into one voice rather than many opinions attract yes men. A failure of leadership.

Then I paused at 23 minutes  where he went from condemning people for hating a country, to calling American's pigs. Its obvious he's got the hate inside himself that he doesn't want 'others' to have. Don't get angry with me while I call you a pig. What a stupid thing to say or expect from reality.

As for propaganda that's necessary in war that is why all sides do it. Russia has not surrounded or cut off Ukrainian troops barely at all. Otherwise they would be out of supply. As for his take on surrender, well the problem is people will die and suffer for a hundred years if they do. Disappearing, suppressed, shot, killed, etc. 

In conclusion his perspective is heavily Russian biased and heavily hating on America. Which is okay, but I take it with perspective in mind.

Edited March 20, 2022 by BlueOak

[BlueOak]

7 minutes ago, somegirl said:

Maybe. And most of the people here are openly biased against Russia

I usually see the opposite. Funny how we see what stands out to us the most. Thankfully I see a lot of Russian opinions because I begin to understand that part of myself and begin to see it in me too.

[hello1234]

13 minutes ago, somegirl said:

Maybe. And most of the people here are openly biased against Russia and deem Putin as crazy lunatic who just so happened to wake up one day and decide to bomb Ukraine because he was bored and wanted to sprinkle some drama in his life (which is ridiculous). Reality is much more complex than that, shocker. But people are lazy, they want truth to be served to them, they want to be told who to hate and who to love. And when someone presents to them a different POV, they call it propaganda.

 

You are very obviously biased against NATO and the west. Before you criticize someone in such an arrogant way, have you considered looking at yourself? 

You calling people lazy? The person who claimed Russia never started any wars? Omg ? 

Edited March 20, 2022 by hello1234

[somegirl]

4 hours ago, Godhead said:

Spreading propaganda because it goes against the mainstream narrative and priding yourself because you are so "multiperspectival" is quite silly if you ask me.

What you hear on western media is called propaganda. Did you hear those reporters talk? They use adjectives like "unprovoked war", "evil Putin" etc. That kind of talk doesn't contribute to better understanding of a situatioin, but honestly I didn't expect from media to be unbiased. Lazy people like to be told what to believe.

4 hours ago, Godhead said:

The true Hypocrisy is, that the image portrays Russia as some saintly angel, which of course is rather ridiculous (Chechnya, Georgia, Moldova, Afghanistan...).

Russia is not innocent either, I mentioned that in previous comment, both sides have blood on their hands. I'm just saying that NATO has been doing what Russia is doing right now, for centuries. They don't have a right to say shit now. They only care for people's lives when it's convinient for them. This is what pisses me off the most. A literal murderer talling others that murdering is bad.

Why didn't people criticize NATO for bombing Yugoslavia which was btw against International Law ? Because they want to turn the blind eye only when it's convinient for them.
 

4 hours ago, Godhead said:

Look, 2 things can be bad at the same time. Only because the U.S. did some nasty shit and got away with it, doesn't mean that Russia should now too.

And I agree.
It's just sad that NATO will never take accountability for their commited atrocities because they are more powerful.

 

[BlueOak]

6 minutes ago, somegirl said:

Russia is not innocent either, I mentioned that in previous comment, both sides have blood on their hands. I'm just saying that NATO has been doing what Russia is doing right now, for centuries. They don't have a right to say shit now. They only care for people's lives when it's convinient for them. This is what pisses me off the most. A literal murderer talling others that murdering is bad.

Why didn't people criticize NATO for bombing Yugoslavia which was btw against International Law ? Because they want to turn the blind eye only when it's convinient for them.
 

And I agree.
It's just sad that NATO will never take accountability for their commited atrocities because they are more powerful.

 

Russia has been doing what NATO has done for centuries. Who do you think most modern wars was really against? Russian influence, Russian arms, and Russian backed countries. Russia has toppled governments, armed dictators, meddled in politics, sent mercenaries and invaded others in just the same way. Sure sometimes everyone turns on a particular country or movement. Its more usually superpower vs superpower. *Or a border dispute between neighboring countries.

You can take all that and apply it to NATO. Minus dictatorships and autocrats as a preference, and the wish to completely level populations if necessary. Not much difference but it is there.

Edited March 20, 2022 by BlueOak