Understanding Russia & Putin

[Hardkill]

6 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

The thing is it looks more like a show of force to me. I read that all those projects and stuff they apparently started to work on together apparently have stalled greatly and in reality they have actually done little together to help each other develop. It’s all bark no bite this “partnership.” Chinese historically actually hate Russia and actually might see this as a way to get revenge on them. China can just sit back now and wait for Russia to rely on their payment systems, tech and cheap products amongst other things. They also get to see what they can do better to avoid getting fucked trying to take Taiwan.

Yeah, I believe that too.

Also, given how primitive and authoritarian China and Russia, I would not be surprised if both of those countries eventually turned on each other.

[Ryan_047]

8 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Russia will very likely take Ukraine no matter what happens. Quite frankly, I think Zelenskyy is also continuing to hurt the global economy. Unless I am missing something, I think he’s already done enough to try to stand up against Putin. He needs to concede victory to Putin in order to stop anymore pointless bloodshed and destruction in his country and putting the economy of the world in great jeopardy. The Ukrainians can one day take their country back in the future through constant guerrilla warfare. I applaud Zelenskyy for his strength and courage as a leader, but right now he is not showing himself to be a wise leader with enough foresight.

Zelensky did not invade Russia, it's Putin who's hurting the global economy. He invaded another country because "Nazis". Even if Ukraine surrendered tomorrow, the sanctions will still go through. 

So your whole argument is "Stop the fighting now, so to fight in the future using guerilla warfare tactics." You realize that a country that is constantly in a conflict has more to lose right? Did Vietnam develop economically while fighting the French and Americans in guerilla warfare? Did Yugoslavia under Nazi rule? Did China in the civil war? The list goes on and on. People will still die if they resort to guerilla warfare, and don't expect Russia to pour money into Ukraine for reconstruction and development and don't expect the West to pour money in a Russian puppet state.

People in an economically deprived country that is under a constant sense of threat since there is guerilla warfare going on will not flourish. It's not just human lives we're talking about, it's quality of life, which matters a whole lot more than you might think it does. Quality of life determines whether you stay stuck in development, have mental or physical illnesses or commit suicide or not. 

It's either fight for a better life, flee in the West, or live in shit from the Ukrainian POV if you'd like. You can't expect them all to flee or live in shit. What you are arguing for it's not wisdom as you fancy, it's betraying his people. 

[mojsterr]

7 hours ago, vladorion said:

I wonder what percentage of Ukrainian citizens think that. Especially amongst those stuck sitting in basements with no food and heat.

"Russian warship... Go fuck yourself." - This story turned out to be fake. All those soldiers are alive and well.

I think the fake part is only the one about them being attacked and killed.

[PurpleTree]

If Russia waited another decade or so for that attack imo would have been smarter

i don't think Ukraine would have been in NATO by then

Europe would have been more divided (after more Russian interference etc.)

and the US wold have been focused much more on China/Indopacific/Taiwan

 

 

But because Putin is getting old and grumpy he couldn't wait

[BlueOak]

10 hours ago, Hardkill said:

That is a really a foolish bull-headed mentality. It will be so much better if the Ukrainians fight back in the future when the time is right.

When will the time be more right?

Russia is bogged down, and being brought to peace by almost all of the democratic world. Almost all of the Ukrainian population is against the invasion. They are well armed and supplied in all but the south east where some are cut off. The population is armed and mobilized. The refugee crisis and pictures of suffering are causing more pressure against Russia. Russia has lost momentum and its lost a lot of men and machines. The snow is melting and making the terrain worse. Its supply lines are more vulnerable than ever and it doesn't have enough trucks to supply its forces. Its lost many generals and many commanding officers, its faced defections and low morale. Russia has little legitimacy for the war except NATO is bad, and Russia don't like what happened in the east, which Russia itself created in fighting there and arming/building a separatist movement.

Russia is not even calling it a war, so how does it intend to fight a long one? Its largely trying to invent legitimacy after the fact with mythical bio labs, and nuclear threats. Which never works, it takes years of conditioning to Democratic countries to believe state party lines. There is no more right time, than right now.

By the way the Russian approach to propaganda is one more way to show how it doesn't understand the west. They might be able to convince their own populations of something because they have been fostering NATO hate based on its expansion for decades, but it takes a year or more of state messaging on democratic or even just neutral third party media to justify invading another country.

Edited March 15, 2022 by BlueOak

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

If Russia waited another decade or so for that attack imo would have been smarter

i don't think Ukraine would have been in NATO by then

Europe would have been more divided (after more Russian interference etc.)

and the US wold have been focused much more on China/Indopacific/Taiwan

 

 

But because Putin is getting old and grumpy he couldn't wait

The thing is though this whole situation has been up for question for 8 years now. I don’t think it was possible to wait any longer. Putin May not be alive in another two years .

[Lyubov]

Turns out Russia’s military is actually kinda shit. I mean it isn’t even a professional military where being in it is equivalent to being a trained professional. It’s more of a place where poor and uneducated country boys end up. Apparently there is a huge hazing problem in it as well which greatly affects moral. All those fancy vehicles and weapons don’t amount to much if the training and will behind the man operating them is crap. It’s weird reading about there being such crazy logistical issues on the Russian side. 

[Leo Gura]

23 hours ago, K Ghoul said:

Musk wants to fight Putin

This has to be the dumbest idea Musk has ever had

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Lyubov said:

Turns out Russia’s military is actually kinda shit. I mean it isn’t even a professional military where being in it is equivalent to being a trained professional. It’s more of a place where poor and uneducated country boys end up. Apparently there is a huge hazing problem in it as well which greatly affects moral. All those fancy vehicles and weapons don’t amount to much if the training and will behind the man operating them is crap. It’s weird reading about there being such crazy logistical issues on the Russian side. 

Russian military power has never been professionalism, it was simply a willingness to throw millions of people into battle.

When my grandfather fought the Nazis in WW2, Russian soldiers were sent into battle without a weapon. You had to find your weapon off a dead man. And if you didn't want to fight they would shoot you.

My grandfather had some funny WW2 stories. One time a Nazi officer caught him (he was a teen) and pulled his pants down to give him a beating on the ass. While he was beating him, my grandfather shat all over him.

[Ryan_047]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My grandfather had some funny WW2 stories. One time a Nazi officer caught him (he was a teen) and pulled his pants down to give him a beating on the ass. While he was beating him, my grandfather shat all over him.

How was he not shot after that? Or did the Nazi officer had a good laugh himself? =))

[ZhenZhenZhen]

AHAHAHAHA

[Husseinisdoingfine]

[Leo Gura]

Putin has been training in Judo every day since a teen.

Musk better bring his not-a-flamethrower.

[Hardkill]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Putin has been training in Judo every day since a teen.

Musk better bring his not-a-flamethrower.

Is he trolling? 

What does he hope to gain from that?

[Hardkill]

17 hours ago, Ryan_047 said:

Zelensky did not invade Russia, it's Putin who's hurting the global economy. He invaded another country because "Nazis". Even if Ukraine surrendered tomorrow, the sanctions will still go through. 

So your whole argument is "Stop the fighting now, so to fight in the future using guerilla warfare tactics." You realize that a country that is constantly in a conflict has more to lose right? Did Vietnam develop economically while fighting the French and Americans in guerilla warfare? Did Yugoslavia under Nazi rule? Did China in the civil war? The list goes on and on. People will still die if they resort to guerilla warfare, and don't expect Russia to pour money into Ukraine for reconstruction and development and don't expect the West to pour money in a Russian puppet state.

People in an economically deprived country that is under a constant sense of threat since there is guerilla warfare going on will not flourish. It's not just human lives we're talking about, it's quality of life, which matters a whole lot more than you might think it does. Quality of life determines whether you stay stuck in development, have mental or physical illnesses or commit suicide or not. 

It's either fight for a better life, flee in the West, or live in shit from the Ukrainian POV if you'd like. You can't expect them all to flee or live in shit. What you are arguing for it's not wisdom as you fancy, it's betraying his people. 

Yes, of course Putin is undoubtedly the main culprit for undermining the world economy. However, I still don't see how Ukraine continuing to fight this battle is better for its citizens than doing either some of unpredictable kind of guerrilla warfare or surrendering for now and then coming up with a very smart strategy for taking the country back in the future in a way that would cost much less innocent lives, essential infrastructure, historical property, needed homes, etc. Many intelligence analysts, political experts, and social scientists say that Ukraine will be able to very likely take back their country after Russia takes it.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Hardkill

[K Ghoul]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Putin has been training in Judo every day since a teen.

Musk better bring his not-a-flamethrower.

Her not-a-flamethrower

Musk’s name is Elona now. Please respect her wishes.

[mojsterr]

10 hours ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

What makes him think he can take on Putin, who's trained sambo, and supposedly has a black belt in judo lol.

And rides bears.

Shirtless.

 

I'm sure he'd ride Elona too.

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Seems like he's getting a bit desperate for attention. Which in some way makes sense, since attention whoring and twitter advertising is a part of his business strategy nowadays.

Lmao what's going on with Musk? 

I have seen a lot of people do this. One guy here changed his profile to a female. Then Nahm changed his profile to female. I've seen such trends before where the men change their gender to female on the profile. Is it supposed to be some kind of statement? 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Preety_India

[Ryan_047]

7 hours ago, Hardkill said:

I still don't see how Ukraine continuing to fight this battle is better for its citizens than doing either some of unpredictable kind of guerrilla warfare or surrendering for now and then coming up with a very smart strategy for taking the country back in the future in a way that would cost much less innocent lives, essential infrastructure, historical property, needed homes, etc. Many intelligence analysts, political experts, and social scientists say that Ukraine will be able to very likely take back their country after Russia takes it.

You don't get it. Europe is supplying Ukraine with weapons, and once Ukraine falls under Russian occupation this supplying will stop. Nobody is going to pour money into a puppet state. People will still die (especially civilians) with all the guerilla warfare you are suggesting, and you don't understand that the occupying force will retaliate every time a military action takes place. Guess who will suffer? Civilians, of course. Also during peace time the civilians will slowly withdraw their support to the guerilla forces out of fear or being hunted and punished themselves . That's how it always happened. People just want to go back to their lives. 

Guerilla warfare seldom liberated a country by its own. Almost always an external "liberating" force was needed for long term results. I'd also like to know 20 names of those analysts who support guerilla warfare if there are indeed so, so many. It doesn't take a genius to see that Russia is sucking economically big time and that they won't be able to hold Ukraine for long, but I'd argue that this is actually prolonging the suffering, from their POV.

Imagine Ukraine being cut from outside support because it's a puppet regime for... let's say 5 years. They won't get money from Russia. Imagine the potential drop in morale that would take place if Ukraine is put to her knees. Lots of soldiers would just give up. One of the reasons for this high morale is Western support, which again, will stop if Ukraine falls.

If it were by me the war would stop tomorrow, but what you are suggesting will do more harm than good (for the Ukrainian pov) in my opinion. Ukraine will not be liberated by random people blowing up train tracks after suddenly surrendering to the invader. And if this scenario will take place, it will be mostly Western economic sanctions that will corrode Russia's ability to hold Ukraine, not guerilla warfare. Nazi occupied countries were not liberated by guerilla fighters, but by external armies. Yes they do play a role, but it's not decisive by any means.  

[MuadDib]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Putin has been training in Judo every day since a teen.

Musk better bring his not-a-flamethrower.

Musk has broad martial arts experience but most importantly has learned the stips of BJJ from the wizard. BJJ is a much more refined and scientific approach to fighting than Judo.