Understanding Russia & Putin

[Scholar]

On 9.3.2022 at 8:26 PM, Hsinav said:

@Preety_India Lol! Putins image!? 95% of Europe and probably 70% of the world is comparing him with Hitler right now!

Hitler had the same aspirations, there is no difference. Hitler wanted good for his people, and he was willing to sacrifice others for that goal. Remember, Hitler came to power as a result of a previous lost conflict, similar to the fall of the Soviet Union. People have treated germany harshly, which gave Hitler the motivation to do what he did, aswell as allow for his people to support him.

I think people genuinely didn't think Putin was capable of making such a sacrifice for the sake of his own delusions about the world and what it should be.

[K Ghoul]

22 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Hitler had the same aspirations, there is no difference. Hitler wanted good for his people, and he was willing to sacrifice others for that goal. Remember, Hitler came to power as a result of a previous lost conflict, similar to the fall of the Soviet Union. People have treated germany harshly, which gave Hitler the motivation to do what he did, aswell as allow for his people to support him.

I think people genuinely didn't think Putin was capable of making such a sacrifice for the sake of his own delusions about the world and what it should be.

Not wanting to end up becoming yet another US’ bitch where the West would be in control of his state’s decision is not a delusion- it’s an ambitious aspiration, and the price/sacrifice that he is willing to pay for achieving true liberty only indicates how real that threat was. US better roll out all their sanctions now - after Russia will have recuperated the West will no longer be able to continue their bullying.

[Scholar]

9 minutes ago, K Ghoul said:

Not wanting to end up becoming yet another US’ bitch where the West would be in control of his state’s decision is not a delusion- it’s an ambitious aspiration, and the price/sacrifice that he is willing to pay for achieving true liberty only indicates how real that threat was. US better roll out all their sanctions now - after Russia will have recuperated the West will no longer be able to continue their bullying.

I think it was revealed that it is a delusion, Putin wasn't tracking reality as it was, and his people are paying for it. Also notice how this is precisely the motivation that fueled Hitler and his ambitions for the Third Reich.

[K Ghoul]

Just now, Scholar said:

I think it was revealed that it is a delusion, Putin wasn't tracking reality as it was, and his people are paying for it. Also notice how this is precisely the motivation that fueled Hitler and his ambitions for the Third Reich.

No, I don’t notice a correlation. Putin’s motives are grounded in the real-life happening-right-now threats to his state operations and decisions making apparatus, he is very business-like minded. Hitler’s ideas were based on his ideals and dreams about what German race should look like, he was in the clouds of his “vision” and was striving to dominate the world, be the master race, the elite. Putin just wants to be “the head of his household”, so to speak, without any external influences from the West telling him what to do.

[Scholar]

9 minutes ago, K Ghoul said:

No, I don’t notice a correlation. Putin’s motives are grounded in the real-life happening-right-now threats to his state operations and decisions making apparatus, he is very business-like minded. Hitler’s ideas were based on his ideals and dreams about what German race should look like, he was in the clouds of his “vision” and was striving to dominate the world, be the master race, the elite. Putin just wants to be “the head of his household”, so to speak, without any external influences from the West telling him what to do.

Minor differences.

[K Ghoul]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

Minor differences.

Minor differences are between British Empire and modern Western cultural neocolonialism.

[Scholar]

 

[Breakingthewall]

putin's motivation is becoming more and more obvious, he does not want missiles minutes from moscow and he does not want a country that has in its orogram to recover crimea in nato. he is not a demon or a madman. He has taken a very risky blow, we will see how it turns out. the reality is that he did not want to bow down to the aggressive nato. sad for the ukrainians, but this can end quickly and with little pain, far from iraq or libya. my bet is that putin will come out stronger

[PurpleTree]

What has Russia gained with this invasion thus far

brought the Ukraine closer together

brought the West closer together

brought NATO closer together

made Zelensky an international icon (even if they kill him now)

made enemies for decades

made Europe stack up their military and got tons of sanctions

killed civilians

and took some important cities and attacked some strategic important places

[vizual]

@PurpleTree Don't forget that Putin destroyed Russia's international trade and national economy, tanked the ruble, and made public targets of the Russian elite in foreign countries.

[zurew]

@vizual It could also be added, that when Putin say something that worries him in the future, his words will hold much more weight. If he says that he has a problem with any other country joining the Nato, that worry will hold much more weight now. Those worries can't be handwaved away anymore. Even if his worries doesn't seem to be true or rational from the West side.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

What has Russia gained with this invasion thus far

brought the Ukraine closer together

brought the West closer together

brought NATO closer together

made Zelensky an international icon (even if they kill him now)

made enemies for decades

made Europe stack up their military and got tons of sanctions

killed civilians

and took some important cities and attacked some strategic important places

What he gained is Ukraine not joining NATO.

Was it worth the cost? Doesn't seem so.

[Blackhawk]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What he gained is Ukraine not joining NATO.

That makes no sense. Because Ukraine wasn't ready for a Nato membership anyway. And the war in eastern Ukraine (prior to the invasion) was already stopping a Nato membership.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Blackhawk

[Scholar]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What he gained is Ukraine not joining NATO.

Was it worth the cost? Doesn't seem so.

Ukraine wasn't going to join NATO and couldn't have joined NATO as long as it had border disputes, so nothing was actually gained.

We even have official statements now that Ukraine had no plans to join NATO either, all it really wanted to do is join the EU.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Scholar

[Blackhawk]

8 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Ukraine wasn't going to join NATO and couldn't have joined NATO as long as it had border disputes, so nothing was actually gained.

We even have official statements now that Ukraine had no plans to join NATO either, all it really wanted to do is join the EU.

And not that many Ukrainians were for joining Nato, but now after the invasion many more are for a membership.

[Leo Gura]

It's pretty clear to me Ukraine would have eventually joined NATO and the US would use Ukraine as the frontline against Russia and build missile silos there.

It's obvious this is what America leadership wants. They wanted to make Ukraine the battleground against any future conflict with Russia. So here we are. Their wish came true.

[Scholar]

42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's pretty clear to me Ukraine would have eventually joined NATO and the US would use Ukraine as the frontline against Russia and build missile silos there.

It's obvious this is what America leadership wants. They wanted to make Ukraine the battleground against any future conflict with Russia. So here we are. Their wish came true.

Why do you think NATO would have built missile silos in Ukraine? What makes you think that American leadership wanted to make Ukraine a battleground? What nations that joined NATO after the fall of the soviet union have missile silos, with what you presumably refer to having nuclear strike capabilities?

 

Also, if American leadership wanted Ukraine to be a future battleground, I would assume they would be against them joining NATO, as it would not allow for the same kind of warfare. If Ukraine had joined NATO, any attack on Ukraine would be considered a declaration of war on all of NATO and require a full offensive response, which I do not think is in the interest of any NATO country, let alone the US. The fact that Ukraine is not in NATO currently plays in the hands of the US.

 

A Ukraine that is not part of NATO is the perfect buffer zone. An invasion of the Ukraine will not lead to a full war, but cripple Russia and put an end to dying empire. Basically, what we have seen here was the perfect scenario. No direct involvement in the war, while defeating and humiliating your enemy.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Scholar

[shorti62]

Interesting, how some people create their truth, and then don't like it. 

Like, what do we really know about whole situation? And even if we did know anything, what would it change?

 

Psychopath.. What about millions of people that he helped, is he a psychopath to them as well?

 

Again, the loudest are americans, who (most of them) don't know what was going on in this countries, who still cant differentiate Slovakia and Slovenia, and use Youtube as main source of information.

 

 

[PurpleTree]

this was pretty good imo

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by PurpleTree

[Ryan_047]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What he gained is Ukraine not joining NATO.

Yet. 

Even if he wins militarily and manages to install and maintain a puppet regime, and somehow stop his entire economy from collapsing (which some analysts think can be done by integrating economically with China and moving away from Europe, but that will take some years), the hatred of Ukrainians will come back one day and bite him (or the next dictator in line) in the ass very, very hard. 

Putin has secured that Ukraine will predominantly have an anti Russian sentiment for a long time to come and one day that will translate into a neighbor that will surely join an alliance that opposes Russia, the second Russia is showing weakness.

And arguably, he managed to keep Ukraine out of EU and NATO by creating artificial states in the east. You can't join any of those organizations if you have border disputes, so your argument doesn't really make any sense. No matter how West leaning the leadership in Ukraine could have been, they wouldn't have given up on Crimea and Donbass just to join EU and NATO.