Understanding Russia & Putin

[K Ghoul]

23 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

are you vegetarian/vegan?

it's certainly very bad that these turtles died. but i guess we often still prioritise humans over animals or plants

No, carnivore, and an evil one when I’m hungry, turtles better run
 

But you can see how being attached to one’s identity (belief, race/nationality, gender, species category) alters one’s perception and redefines what “evil” is.

[PurpleTree]

23 minutes ago, K Ghoul said:

No, carnivore, and an evil one when I’m hungry, turtles better run
 

But you can see how being attached to one’s identity (belief, race/nationality, gender, species category) alters one’s perception and redefines what “evil” is.

it certainly does to a degree

but there are also many russians (especially young ones) opposed to this invasion

i'm opposed to all invasions, it's barbaric

do you see the clamp down in russia on free media etc.?

i'm ready for a turtle steak though right about now

 

[caelanb]

Here is a documentary investigating the way Putin got into power. It’s a little old, but still gives you insight into his character and behaviour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAAMPiF_BSg&ab_channel=CBCNews

Here is another video that analyzes John Mearsheimer's essay on Ukraine and the West.

 

[stefm5]

1 hour ago, K Ghoul said:

I use the word “conflict” because that’s how I see it, not because I’m trying to hide some bad feelings (?)
I don’t recall any media coverage for thousands of turtles that got killed in the Deepwater Horizon oil spill incident (estimated 4,900–7,600 large juvenile and adult sea turtles and between 56,000–166,000 small juvenile sea turtles were killed by the spill) - was that not evil? How do we decide what’s more evil - innocent wildlife dying in thousands, entire species going extinct because of human greed and incompetence or people killing each other because they couldn’t figure out the logistics of their business, geopolitical, political and personal relationships.

so if someone invades your house will you call it 'conflict'? would be true? don't you understand the difference? is it so hard to imagine yourself being bombed?

did i make a comparison? are we talking about the media? look at the arguments you use. i never mention anything related to them.

from absolute perspective there is no evil. and that can be used from any devil to torture others. 

i totally agree on the wildlife and human greed and everything you say, but is this means it is fine to bomb people? is this the way we become more conscious? 

 

[Purple Man]

There are as many explanations for the situation as perspectives and temporal distances one takes.

But even those who abhor the media simplistic trash and dare to dig deep into the historical roots of the conflict, fail to see that Putin has a long-term ideological project in his hands: he is trying to become the last man standing against the global technocratic dystopia the world is heading to. He wants Russia to be the spiritual shelter for those who around the world despice the rute the WEF and Big Tech is pushing down the Western World´s throat. In other words, he doesn´t want Russia to go "woke". And thank God, BTW.

If the means is worth it, that´s another subject. But there´s little doubt that with this move, he´s accelerating the creation of an heterogeneous, multi-national faction of traditionalist roots that confronts technological globalism, a self´sustainable parallel civilization. And that´s even more important than a geopolitical move that would aim to Russia´s right to have a safe area around its borders, which is obviously a reasonable petition that has been ignored by the Western World, too occupied with trying to create a foreign administration that substitutes Putin and extends the woke imperialism right to Moscow.

 The rest are details.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Purple Man

[Danioover9000]

   How did this thread go from talking about a war, to turtle steaks 

 

[Danioover9000]

   For those curious:

And the following where he doubles down and defends his take:

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Danioover9000

[Sucuk Ekmek]

21 minutes ago, Purple Man said:

There are as many explanations for the situation as perspectives and temporal distances one takes.

But even those who abhor the media simplistic trash and dare to dig deep into the historical roots of the conflict, fail to see that Putin has a long-term ideological project in his hands: he is trying to become the last man standing against the global technocratic dystopia the world is heading to. He wants Russia to be the spiritual shelter for those who around the world despice the rute the WEF and Big Tech is pushing down the Western World´s throat. In other words, he doesn´t want Russia to go "woke". And thank God, BTW.

If the means is worth it, that´s another subject. But there´s little doubt that with this move, he´s accelerating the creation of an heterogeneous, multi-national faction of traditionalist roots that confronts technological globalism, a self´sustainable parallel civilization. And that´s even more important than a geopolitical move that would aim to Russia´s right to have a safe area around its borders, which is obviously a reasonable petition that has been ignored by the Western World, too occupied with trying to create a foreign administration that substitutes Putin and extends the woke imperialism right to Moscow.

 The rest are details.

Trump also tried this in his terms. He was aganist the machine.

''Global cooperation, dealing with other countries, getting along with other countries is good, it’s very important. But there is no such thing as a global anthem, a global currency or a global flag. This is the United States of America that I’m representing.''

it's quoted from: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2017/02/25/president-trump-replace-the-dollar-with-gold-as-the-global-currency-to-make-america-great-again/?sh=1afba4104d54

I think Russia will bring  back physical metals back to the game, they will do what Trump couldn't.

[peanutspathtotruth]

The main problem I see is embedded in the way most of us think. 

A) We want to come to quick, concrete and specific standpoints as to what is true, who is right, what's going on etc. -> this is human and it makes us feel safe. 

B) We have difficulty holding a complex issue as what it is - complex. Which means there are multiple dynamics, multiple facets, highly intertwined systems on many levels, and many many different perspectives on each of those. 

It's so hard for most of us to be genuinely interested in understanding each perspective, actually pursuing to find and understand all these perspectives thoroughly and then hold all of the relevant ones (!) at the same time. Only when we learn to do this can we find a synthesis, which does not mean coming to concrete conclusions. The whole world is trying to understand this and it's not an easy task. 

So as a community which is being taught by an excellent teacher on how to think and develop clear, intelligent, multi-perspectival thinking, we should do better. I honestly don't see humble, sophisticated thinking on this topic, but short, concise claims that show a strong, emotional, uninformed position (just as mainstream media designs headlines). We can do better! I'd love to see more humility about what we truly understand.
 

So let me try to get the discussion into this direction. I don't know shit. I just started immersing myself in this topic, and on the way I went back to the fundamentals of good stage yellow thinking (which does not just come to us, we have to work hard and practice it!). So I'm just starting. One of the key challenges I found was to find actual perspectives that were even worth checking out and that would help me in my endeavour to truly but slowly get a clearer picture of all this. No jumping to any conclusions yet, far from it. So I'm sharing the best of the best I've found. (And I will check out the video posted here and the Putin interviews, great share thank you for sharing everyone!) 

While studying and trying to make sense, let us not forget why we do this. We want the world to develop further. What we can see in this lifetime might not be much, but this moment can be critical for thrusting us forward into green collective living, at least setting us up for that in some parts of the world. And the danger is that we might be entering a huge backlash which stops development due to destruction or global procrastination. But make no mistake, God is evolving into greater and greater modes of consciousness and love. That's what's happening. This is part of it. It's not wrong, it's not a mistake, it's exactly how evolution looks like. Let's try to understand it and make the best of it.

Check these sources out, they come from great thinkers:

2-part article series by metamoderna artist/thinker Hanzi Freinacht (two guys' alias)
https://metamoderna.org/10-key-insights-into-russia-ukraine/
https://metamoderna.org/10-action-points-on-russia-ukraine/

Rebel Wisdom Sensemaking take (a bit outdated but still very relevant)
https://rebelwisdom.substack.com/p/sensemaking-russia-and-ukraine-rebel?utm_source=url&s=r

Samo Burja analysing possible outcomes with Jim Rutt

 

[BlueOak]

For Emotion:
 

With all the generals and young people that are talked about dying now, its also the most selfless that die in war. The part of the population that heal the sick, try to show the world what's going on, or try to hold life together for everyone that is left.

[Purple Man]

3 minutes ago, Sucuk Ekmek said:

Trump also tried this in his terms. He was aganist the machine.

''Global cooperation, dealing with other countries, getting along with other countries is good, it’s very important. But there is no such thing as a global anthem, a global currency or a global flag. This is the United States of America that I’m representing.''

it's quoted from: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2017/02/25/president-trump-replace-the-dollar-with-gold-as-the-global-currency-to-make-america-great-again/?sh=1afba4104d54

I think Russia will bring  back physical metals back to the game, they will do what Trump couldn't.

Yes, the only ideological link between Putin´s Russia and Trump´s America is precisely their opposition to the "Brave New World" direction we´re heading. They preferred to be two differentiated enemies than part of the same formless mass without any historical, cultural, spiritual root that the Big Tech is aiming to.

[Purple Man]

@peanutspathtotruth Yours is a good approach, I take it into account and I thank you for that.

[axiom]

5 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Two reasons.

To enlarge the Russian Federation. Or at least install a pro-Russia puppet regime in Ukraine.

And also because of this:

"Putin nurses a deep sense of grievance over the loss of Russia’s power and influence since the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991. Ukraine was formerly part of the Soviet Union but declared its independence in 1991.

Having a prosperous, modern, independent and democratic European state bordering Russia was perceived as posing a threat to Russia’s autocratic regime. If Ukrainians succeeded in fully reforming their country along lines of other western democracies, it would set a bad precedent for former Soviet countries and serve as an example for Russians who want a more democratic country."

https://theconversation.com/why-did-russia-invade-ukraine-faqs-about-the-conflict-that-has-shocked-the-world-177963

Interesting, thanks.

Whilst it's true that Putin was saddened by the demise of the SU, and was bitterly disappointed in Yeltsin's failed first Chechen war effort - which is what led him to conduct a false flag operation (the apartment bombings) as justification to go back a second time in 1999... I personally think it's still much more about Eastwards expansion of NATO. 

Numerous warnings about NATO expanding eastwards have been given now for decades, and these come from Western leaders, from Eastern European diplomats, and from Putin himself.

As the National Security Archive at Washington University shows, during the reunification of Germany, explicit assurances were given to Russia that Nato would not expand "one inch eastward". This promise was broken - and repeatedly so - culminating in a US-orchestrated coup in Ukraine in 2014 and the installation of a puppet administration loyal to US interests. Putin's eventual response has been all too preventable, and all too predictable. 

Putin is untrustworthy and cruel, and is more than capable of pushing his response well beyond the realms of reasonable - but the West has been poking this hornet's nest repeatedly. It should not come as a surprise to anyone.

Edited March 7, 2022 by axiom

[Fandango]

Shouldn´t we let Russia conquer Ukraine and prevent people dying instead of sending weapons to them thinking that we are helping? This will also prevent from starting WW3.

It amazes me how people think that if we let Putin win he will try to conquer the world or something like that. That is not what he is doing.

Putin is far from being an idiot or crazy

[Fandango]

Should the West help Putin conquer Ukraine peacefully?

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Fandango said:

Shouldn´t we let Russia conquer Ukraine and prevent people dying instead of sending weapons to them thinking that we are helping? This will also prevent from starting WW3.

It amazes me how people think that if we let Putin win he will try to conquer the world or something like that. That is not what he is doing.

Putin is far from being an idiot or crazy

 

2 minutes ago, Fandango said:

Should the West help Putin conquer Ukraine peacefully?

no

[Fandango]

why not? Just because we need to be the ones who win?

Edited March 7, 2022 by Fandango

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Fandango said:

why not? Just because we need to be the ones who win?

the Ukrainians want to fight for freedom against an autocratic invader

and they're doing good thus far, obviously every life lost is very sad but just giving in to the bully wouldn't be good either

[Fandango]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

the Ukrainians want to fight for freedom against an autocratic invader

and they're doing good thus far, obviously every life lost is very sad but just giving in to the bully wouldn't be good either

Yes, they want. But does it matter here? you are on their side that is why. They will never win, that is the truth.

There is no bully here, just sides.

[Fandango]

1 minute ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

@Fandango Ideally, Russia should cease to exist - along with every single authoritarian state left on this planet. And we should achieve that throught non-violent means, without the need for war.

I'm not saying USA should rule the world, not at all, there should be multiple major superpowers that counterbalance each other. I just want every single one of them to be democratic.

Yes, but it takes time and you want it to happen now. Not in our life time.

If Europe helped Russia to conquer Ukraine by peacefully means, could that forged a strong alliance between them and areassure world peace? Not sure, just asking myself and you