Understanding Russia & Putin

[hello1234]

5 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

The problem is mentally healthy people don't want to be leaders because they want to be cushy in life. 

That is factually false, and you don’t have any evidence of that.

5 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

People like you will always be in a morally cushy position because they don't want the hardships of leadership but they find it easy to judge from their ivory towers. 

Since you are attacking my character, I will leave this discussion with you as I believe you are just doing this for attention.
 

Again, you only learned about the situation in Ukraine 4 days ago, and you just recently found out that russia is not a communist country (LOL), I don’t think you posses the knowledge to have an educated opinion on the situation.

Edited March 7, 2022 by hello1234

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, hello1234 said:

, I don’t think you posses the knowledge to have an educated opinion on the situation.

Neither do you. You just come from a morally self righteous and survival based position. Everyone has their own survival agenda, including you. 

 

[Blackhawk]

9 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

I never like the demonization of Russia/Putin.

So you think that we shouldn't demonize Russia/Putin..

Dude. Do you understand how wrong, unempathetic, immoral, cruel, barbaric, evil, and wrong the war against Ukraine is? Do you understand how much unnecessary suffering it creates?

And then you (and Leo is kind of saying the same thing I think) say that we shouldn't demonize Russia/Putin???

That shit makes me angry. Wtf is wrong with you people.

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But I live in the West. I don't benefit from Russia overturning the US-led world order. I benefit from US hegemony.

If anything you should be accusing me of a pro-US bias since that's where my bread is buttered.

It's that since I was born in Russia it's easier for me to see how biased Western media is when it comes to world perspectives. It's very hard for Western media to see their own biases and to see the world from a non-Western POV.

I live in Sweden, only the fact that my parents are originally from Finland makes me super biased about Finland. And I'm not even born there.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Blackhawk

[zurew]

8 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

That shit makes me angry. Wtf is wrong with you people.

What do you solve, or what can you achieve by demonizing Putin? By demonizing him, you are shutting down the understanding path. Because of the lack of understanding, we basically won't know how to handle a person like Putin. Only by trying really hard to understand him , can some progress be made into the 'handling Putin better next time" direction. Trying to understand him does not mean, agreeing  with Putin's morals. No one is denying that war is bad, and initiating a war is bad, but you don't achieve anything by saying that over and over again, when others are trying their best to make sense of the situation.

Edited March 7, 2022 by zurew

[zurew]

Here is a brief interview with Putin

[hello1234]

13 minutes ago, zurew said:

Only by trying really hard to understand him , can some progress be made into the 'handling Putin better next time" direction. Trying to understand him does not mean, agreeing  Putin's morals. No one is denying that war is bad, and initiating a war is bad, but you don't achieve anything by saying that over and over again, when others are trying their best to make sense of the situation.

The thing is that we all analyze people from our own frame of reference - if we are psychologically healthy, we inherently assume that the other person is psychologically healthy too. It is very hard to understand a narcissist/psychopath for someone who doesn’t know what it’s like to be a narcissist/psychopath and doesn’t even know about the disorder. This is exactly why psychopaths can manipulate healthy people so easily.

To understand psychologically disordered people you need to understand their psychological disorder. Psychopaths are very charming, in some cases very intelligent, and appear very normal to untrained eye.

Edited March 7, 2022 by hello1234

[Blackhawk]

7 minutes ago, zurew said:

What do you solve, or what can you achieve by demonizing Putin? By demonizing him, you are shutting down the understanding path. Because of the lack of understanding, we basically won't know how to handle a person like Putin. Only by trying really hard to understand him , can some progress be made into the 'handling Putin better next time" direction. Trying to understand him does not mean, agreeing  Putin's morals. No one is denying that war is bad, and initiating a war is bad, but you don't achieve anything by saying that over and over again, when others are trying their best to make sense of the situation.

You can understand the shit perfectly clear, but also understand that Putin and the people in Kremlin aren't decent normal people. That they are evil people. Just like you can perfectly understand why Hitler did the shit which he did, but also understand how evil it was.

@Preety_India I don't like how you are trying to raise up Putin and lower Zelenskyj. Trying to put them at the same level. They aren't the same. They aren't even comparable.

Zelenskyj is the victim here. They haven't done anything to deserve the barbaric aggression from Putin.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Blackhawk

[zurew]

@Blackhawk Most of us here is not interested in the moralizing part, but more about the understanding part. In fact, if you try to understand our positions and our actions better, then you will realize this on your own, that we are here to understand the situation better.

 

@hello1234 I think most of the time,  its better to search for some nuance, rather than trying to explain complex situations and behaviour with one or two labels.

[Blackhawk]

@Preety_India Btw, I have read that there's lots of pro-Russia propaganda/disinformation in India. So watch out for that..

Edited March 7, 2022 by Blackhawk

[vladorion]

Quote

Zelenskyj is the victim here. They haven't done anything to deserve the barbaric aggression from Putin.

Ukrainian people in general - yes.

Zelensky / Ukrainian government? Maybe educate yourself on some things that have happened in Ukraine since 2014.

Have you heard of Minsk Agreements that Russia, Ukraine and OSCE signed in 2015 and that Ukraine did nothing about?

President Zelensky's ex advisor says in an interview, "I think we screwed him badly". The interviewer asks, "Promised a lot and did something else?", to which he says "Promised a lot and did nothing".

He could have prevented this war (if he actually had power). In my opinion he's just a puppet of the West and has no say in what happens.

He's not a hero. Even the pictures of him armed were taken in 2019.

 

 

[hello1234]

10 minutes ago, zurew said:

@hello1234 I think most of the time,  its better to search for some nuance, rather than trying to explain complex situations and behaviour with one or two labels.

These are not “labels”, but defined, identifiable clinical disorders. There is no “nuance” and there shouldn’t be any “mental masturbation” when it comes to mental disorders. What you are calling “finding nuance” is just your laziness and unwillingness to learn about mental disorders. 

Again, before posting another comment and dismissing work of PhD doctors, I recommend you read at least one article on this. It’s very hard to argue with someone if they are unwilling to learn. Honestly, it feels like arguing with a “flat Earther”.

Edited March 7, 2022 by hello1234

[Leo Gura]

@hello1234 You know, right, that psychiatric evaluations are not be done of people remotely who you haven't even met in person?

You are doing a psychiatric evaluation of a person from a different part of the world with a very unique job via the lens of Western media and your personal survival agenda.

[Preety_India]

14 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

 I don't like how you are trying to raise up Putin and lower Zelenskyj. Trying to put them at the same level. They aren't the same. They aren't even comparable.

Zelenskyj is the victim here. They haven't done anything to deserve the barbaric aggression from Putin.

I'll never defend that Zelensky guy, I'm sorry. In my opinion, actors and entertainers shouldn't be politicians, I can't trust them enough with the responsibility of a nation which needs skill and political acumen. But this is just my personal opinion. As regards to Putin, he has been the leader of Russia for a long time, I never saw a public display of Russians hating or not wanting Putin. This tells me that he must have done good things for Russia in his tenure as a President. I don't know much about his past but if he was an inherently cruel man, wouldn't the world have known it somehow? He is ruthless about anyone opposing him but this is not cruelty, just dogmatism on his side. If most of his tenure was peaceful and helpful for the Russians, then I'm nobody to throw dirt on his character. 

 

[BlueOak]

@Intraplanetary
I've been watching the Indian take as I quite like their news coverage as an outside source to balance out closer proximity on issues, but their major networks in english (not all) have been behind most others. Trying to play down the significance of the conflict for example and play it off as a skirmish.

It seems these networks just had a reality check and are in the fear we all had a week or two ago. So right now they are overreacting, unless something else changes, we've been at this point for 2 weeks.

[hello1234]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@hello1234 You know, right, that psychiatric evaluations are not be done of people remotely who you haven't even met in person?

You are doing a psychiatric evaluation of a person from a different part of the world via the lens of Western media.

That is not factually true. Like I said, rarely you get a chance to sit down a psychopath voluntarily and diagnose them.

I am not asking people to believe my word and my assessment, I am asking people to look up putin’s psychological assessments done by PhD psychologists and psychotherapists and to learn about mental disorders themselves, instead of just throwing/dismissing labels.

I repeat my question, how much do you know about cluster B personality disorders? 

Political critics often lack the clinical psychological background. I highly encourage people to take a more wholistic approach.

Edited March 7, 2022 by hello1234

[Preety_India]

6 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

@Preety_India Btw, I have read that there's lots of pro-Russia propaganda/disinformation in India. So watch out for that..

Pro-Russia propaganda in India. Then I'm quite happy to know that. Actually I didn't even know about this until you mentioned it. 

Anyone I'm glad India has good relations with Russia. Better than having good relations with US.  I'm not anti-US but US is looking for monopoly, watch out for that too. 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, hello1234 said:

I repeat my question, how much do you know about cluster B personality disorders?

How much do you know about Putin's personal mental life?

[zurew]

@hello1234 You can only use the information what you have on your table. Most people behave differently at home , compare to their public life. Most of the time real diagnosis doesn't happen without enough information, you don't see psychologists diagnosing randomly people remotely using only a handful amount of information. Would you be happy if we captured your most angry moments and we only showed those moments to a psychologist. What do you think their diagnostical outcome would be? It would be really distorted of course.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, zurew said:

@hello1234 You can only use the information what you have on your table. Most people behave differently at home , compare to their public life. Most of the time real diagnosis doesn't happen without enough information, you don't see psychologists diagnosing randomly people remotely using only a handful amount of information. Would you be happy if we captured your most angry moments and we only showed those moments to a psychologist. What do you think their diagnostical outcome would be? It would be really distorted of course.

Good point. 

[PurpleTree]

Russia is creating enemies for decades and decades