Understanding Russia & Putin

[Preety_India]

21 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

People there just need dictators/tsars/kings - if you think about it, it's rather odd. Name me one more country in the world, that is this stubborn, and seemingly unable of changing it's political system.

 

I think the UK is similar to this, they love their monarch, no matter how many scandals the monarchy is involved in. 

I personally do not see a problem with Czar-ship or dictatorship as long as people are benefitting from it. 

These days I'm increasingly against democracy, not that I actively favor a dictatorship as I'm aware of the trouble, yet, democracy has huge holes in it and America is a prime example of these holes, it basically causes a bipartisan system difficult to control, there is more homogeneity in a dictatorship at least, since dissent is discouraged, it's like this forum, if you have too much democracy here, even trolls will get to survive and proliferate unattended, you'd need some degree of tyranny( although it's leadership not tyranny but it will appear like tyranny) in order to maintain peace by throwing out the trolls. 

Similarly positive dictators will be able to sort out the gold from the dirt much better than democracies and this can stop internal chaos. 

Democracy gives an illusion of goodness. But ignorance is always bliss. 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Preety_India

[hello1234]

12 minutes ago, zurew said:

@hello1234 Do we have any psychological evidence for Putin being a sociopath or psychopath? I am not talking about his actions ,but about a real diagnosis. The reason why i ask is because it is very different when some psychologist assume, that someone has this or that, and when there is a real diagnosis of something. If we don't have any, then this claim that he is doing what he is doing is because he is a psychopath will be just one more perspective among many that tries to describe the reasons behind  his behaviour.

There are many videos online of psychologists analyzing Putin’s personality, even prior invasion. The biggest challenge of treating Psychopathy/Antisocial/Narcissistic disorders, is that those people are the last ones you will see voluntarily going to see a therapist and even more, committing to a treatment, they don’t see anything wrong with them. So the idea of putin sitting down with a psychologist and getting a face to face diagnosis is laughable. Plus russia is about 20 years behind (my estimate) in development from the rest of the world. The field of psychology is still very unexplored, many people still think it’s a mambo jumbo there. 

Here is a good video to help understand what I am saying.

 

[zurew]

12 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

BUT, what really got me were the people that genuinelly admired Putin - leading me to believe that Russia just simply wasn't made to experience real democracy, and it will likely never experience it

I don't know the exact numbers how many people admire Putin for his actions, however we can see how many Russian people were on the streets protesting to stop the war. So there could be some hope, at the end of the day.

[yannick]

 

[zurew]

2 minutes ago, hello1234 said:

So the idea of putin sitting down with a psychologist and getting a face to face diagnosis is laughable

Thats a fair point, that we won't ever see Putin in a therapy session. However, the reason why i bringed it up is because, we have to be careful how strong claims we want to make, without any proper diagnosis. As i have said before, this will be just one more perspective among the other ones, so we can't capitalize only on this perspective. Problem is ,that this perspective closes down the understanding expolartion because if what you say is true, then we don't really need to analyze Putin much more. But we don't know if its true or not, its just a speculation, so in my opinion we shouldn't count it out, but we shouldn't focus on it too much, and we should gather more and more perspectives.

[Preety_India]

If Putin ever has a therapy session, then he will cry so much that entire Russia will be filled with his tears. Enough water supply. 

Dude legit looks traumatized. 

 

[hello1234]

9 minutes ago, zurew said:

Thats a fair point, that we won't ever see Putin in a therapy session. However, the reason why i bringed it up is because, we have to be careful how strong claims we want to make, without any proper diagnosis. As i have said before, this will be just one more perspective among the other ones, so we can't capitalize only on this perspective. Problem is ,that this perspective closes down the understanding expolartion because if what you say is true, then we don't really need to analyze Putin much more. But we don't know if its true or not, its just a speculation, so in my opinion we shouldn't count it out, but we shouldn't focus on it too much, and we should gather more and more perspectives.

That is why I encourage you and others to learn about clinical mental disorders and to find qualified psychologists performing assessments of putin. Honestly, once you learn about these things it’s not that hard to see it. 

Unfortunately, terms such as “narcissist”, “psychopath” and “antisocial” have been very overused without learning about the underlying diagnosis. The word “crazy” is not a psychological disorder and not a psychological diagnosis, while these terms actually are, so people shouldn’t be throwing them around or they start getting dismissed. Another important distinction is the difference between Psychopathic Personality Disorder and Psychopathic Traits.

Edited March 7, 2022 by hello1234

[Leo Gura]

If Putin has a therapy session, the therapist will leave crying.

[Preety_India]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

If Putin has a therapy session, the therapist will leave crying.

Omg. This seems like a clever pun. It can mean a lot of things at the same time. 

 

[hello1234]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If Putin has a therapy session, the therapist will leave crying.

Stop trolling..

I encourage you to learn about the psychology of personality disorders as well and not to dismiss and belittle it. What do you know about cluster B personality disorders? 

Edited March 7, 2022 by hello1234

[hello1234]

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

If Putin ever has a therapy session, then he will cry so much that entire Russia will be filled with his tears. Enough water supply. 

It’s not how psychopath/narcissists work. If he ever was to have a therapy with a psychologist, he would complain about how people don’t understand him, how it’s everyone else’s fault, how he is the victim, try to manipulate the psychologist to believe him, etc.

[zurew]

One thing we can say for sure, that he is not dumb. He was a KGB agent, that in an of itself shows, that he has some brain.

[hello1234]

7 minutes ago, zurew said:

One thing we can say for sure, that he is not dumb. He was a KGB agent, that in an of itself shows, that he has some brain.

Having a mental disorder does not mean that you are stupid. 

From Diagnostic and Statistics manual of Mental Disorders, version 5 (the most recent manual therapists adhere to when diagnosing mental disorders):

“Some studies suggest that the average intelligence of antisocials is higher than the norm. Antisocials possess a superficial charm, they can be thoughtful and cunning, and have an intuitive ability to rapidly observe and analyze others, determine their needs and preferences, and present it in a manner to facilitate manipulation and exploitation. They are able to harm and use other people in this manner, without remorse, guilt, shame or regret.”

Note that Antisocial can be used interchangeably with Psychopath, psychologists still haven’t set a proper differentiation between the terms.

Edited March 7, 2022 by hello1234

[Preety_India]

Just now, hello1234 said:

It’s not how psychopath/narcissists work. If he ever was to have a therapy with a psychologist, he would complain about how people don’t understand him, how it’s everyone else’s fault, how he is the victim, try to manipulate the psychologist to believe him, etc.

Although he does seem to show a spectrum of such traits, I would not rule out trauma. It always gives a feeling that he is trying hard to smile, but hiding some pain. 

Personally I have been in relationship with narcissists. They do act bad yet they also carry wounds and have suffered. 

Also Putin as a man and Putin as a leader are 2 different things. 

We see Zelensky acting heroic. It's easy because he is in a victim position, it favors him to do so. 

But when a man has to take decisions against his conscience, that's when character is really tested. 

Leadership requires ruthlessness whether your character permits it or not. Anyone acting like a soft leader does not realize this and is thus blame free. 

Yet when situations are tough, the soft leader does not want to take a hard position and by avoiding it, indirectly actually causes more harm to people than good. It's synonymous to being a spectator to people's suffering and still holding onto popular cliches,just to appear nice. 

A true leader is even ready to take a blemish on his character as long as it benefits his people. 

It's easy to judge Putin but it's harder to be a leader. We don't know his challenges as a leader, he is not a commoner to sit and comment on a forum and argue about moral superiority. He has bigger concerns in mind where he will need to weigh in the pros and cons of ethics and do what serves his interests. 

[Intraplanetary]

Get ready everyone 

 

[zurew]

 

[PurpleTree]

sad report

[Preety_India]

Just now, hello1234 said:

If mentally stable people were in charge of the world, we wouldn’t be having all these disasters.

The problem is mentally healthy people don't want to be leaders because they want to be cushy in life. 

Do you want to be Ukraine's leader? Did you try to be Ukraine's leader? 

People like you will always be in a morally cushy position because they don't want the hardships of leadership but they find it easy to judge from their ivory towers. 

Become the leader of Russia or Ukraine and then let's see how much of your moral talk actually holds

But that you don't want. 

[hello1234]

@Preety_India

Trauma is often the underlying cause of psychological disorders. They are either inherited or caused by trauma. 

Regardless of the reason of their disorder, these disorders are near impossible to cure - nowadays there are still no working cures. These people are a danger to society and anyone around them and, unfortunately, but in my opinion, the only solution right now is to remove them from the society. Empathizing with them, is not productive whatsoever.

And this is exactly what I mean, people overusing the terms by labeling their ex bf “narcissists”.

This is not an argument of “soft” vs “hard” leader, this is an argument of “mentally disabled” vs “psychologically healthy”. If mentally stable people were in charge of the world, we wouldn’t be having all these disasters.

Edited March 7, 2022 by hello1234

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, hello1234 said:

@Preety_India

Trauma is often the underlying cause of psychological disorders. They are either inherited or caused by trauma. 

And this is exactly what I mean, people overusing the terms by labeling their ex bf “narcissists”.

This is not an argument of “soft” vs “hard” leader, this is an argument of “mentally disabled” vs “psychologically healthy”. If mentally stable people were in charge of the world, we wouldn’t be having all these disasters.

The problem is mentally healthy people don't want to be leaders because they want to be cushy in life. 

Do you want to be Ukraine's leader? Did you try to be Ukraine's leader? 

People like you will always be in a morally cushy position because they don't want the hardships of leadership but they find it easy to judge from their ivory towers. 

Become the leader of Russia or Ukraine and then let's see how much of your moral talk actually holds

But that you don't want. 

You're mentally healthy right?