Understanding Russia & Putin

[Preety_India]

I sincerely hope that a pro US government does not get established in Russia. That would be bad news. That should never happen. 

Russia will lose everything if that happens.

 

[tsuki]

@Leo Gura And accelerated the today's crisis caused by Ukraine becoming heavily pro-west.

It's like this invasion was Putin's goal all along to consolidate the alliance with China.

[Preety_India]

@tsuki China is pro-US all the way. 

[axiom]

5 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Leo Gura And accelerated the today's crisis caused by Ukraine becoming heavily pro-west.

It's like this invasion was Putin's goal all along to consolidate the alliance with China.

Probably the 2014 Maidan Revolution was a coup to depose pro-Russia Yanukovych, part-orchestrated by the CIA and British Intelligence. The West planted the seed of dissent and continues to fund, train and provide weaponry to Neo-Nazi militias in the country. It reminds me of the 1953 CIA / MI6 coup against Mossadegh in Iran (only admitted to in 2013)

Edited March 6, 2022 by axiom

[tsuki]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

 

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@tsuki China is pro-US all the way. 

Not anymore, apparently. Have you watched the video Leo posted? China is in an "agreement exceeding alliance" with Russia, which made Putin feel like he can't be pushed around anymore. 

[Preety_India]

Just now, tsuki said:

 

Not anymore, apparently. Have you watched the video Leo posted? China is in an "agreement exceeding alliance" with Russia, which made Putin feel like he can't be pushed around anymore. 

That's a namesake alliance. The first thing China will do is betray Russia. China is very loyal to US, for all the good reasons. China became rich exclusively because of US. Turning against US is something China will never do even in another 100 years.

 

[tsuki]

10 minutes ago, axiom said:

The West planted the seed of dissent and continues to fund, train and provide weaponry to Neo-Nazi militias in the country.

And here's why Putin calls Ukrainian government neo-nazis.

[Scholar]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I've been seeing a lot of talk in western media and on this forum about how insane, crazy, or evil Putin is. Well, such talk should immediately make you suspicious of your own worldview.

This video offers a much better perspective of Russia's and Putin's perspective than anything I have seen coming from Western media.

What I see consistently is that people in the West fail to consider Russia's security interests at all in this situation. They just dismiss that as a cover for Putin's personal lust for power or Putin's delusional view of history.

Don't take this as a justification for Putin's war, but as a way of understanding the situation better. If you cannot understand the survival agenda of your adversary then you will not be able to correctly predict his actions and negotiate with him. That's the point. This is not about morality, it's about being understanding. You can't have peace with someone you fail to understand.

This is also not about blaming the US or the West, or creating some kind of moral false equivalencies. It's about understanding how to prevent conflict.

Have you read some of the Papers disagreeing with Mearsheimer? Mearsheimer seems to be unable to substantiate many of his claims, I find his analysis to be severely flawed.

[Leo Gura]

Here is an alternative, pro-Western perspective:

 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Have you read some of the Papers disagreeing with Mearsheimer?

I have not, but I have listened to Vaush's and Destiny's critiques, and I was not impressed.

[Preety_India]

28 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Leo Gura And accelerated the today's crisis caused by Ukraine becoming heavily pro-west.

It's like this invasion was Putin's goal all along to consolidate the alliance with China.

Russia is being played like a fiddle by China and US who will try to close in on it since Putin doesn't want a pro-US government. So China and US and NATO will make the noose tighter around Russia's neck. China is a great ally to US, always faithful no matter what. US relies heavily on China and now wants to dominate Russia so a major threat is eliminated, plus pillaging Russia will be a good deal for the US. In this process, China will help US achieve this. China is US's brother. 

And Russia will make a huge mistake by relying on China. 

 

[Fleetinglife]

5 hours ago, Preety_India said:

That's a namesake alliance. The first thing China will do is betray Russia. China is very loyal to US, for all the good reasons. China became rich exclusively because of US. Turning against US is something China will never do even in another 100 years.

This sounds like you are living in some wishful thinking, bubbled, shielded personal version of a delusional reality regarding international power relations and the way the global economy and finance is structured and works in the world currently - so you don't get caught off guard when China invades Taiwan (a critical US strategic and economic ally for more than 70 years, that it maybe willing to go in a serious military confortation with the whole of China, including it's military, economy and political leadership to defend) , in the most, some serious military, geopolitical and economic analysts predict and say, complex and largest scale military operation to be carried out in military world history, and don't found yourself to be dumbfounded by the scale of the global economic downfall and shock ripple effects to strike and to hit across all countries in the world that may follow that and the news of US/Japanese naval fleets being in open war with the Chinese military and ones - which seems like an inevitability from both the pre-emptive rhetoric coming from both sides at this point in the near future when China plans to incorporate Taiwan into it's sphere and system. 

My intent is just to warn you of the psychological shock and potential deterioration for personal psychic and economical wellbeing and collateral damage when holding such a wishful thinking bubbled, denial belief about the world, it's politics and the way it's economy operates and is structured. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[Scholar]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

I have not, but I have listened to Vaush's and Destiny's critiques, and I was not impressed.

What do you think are their critiques and how would you counter them? Are you able to verify and substantiate the claims Mearsheimer is making?

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Scholar said:

What do you think are their critiques and how would you counter them? Are you able to verify and substantiate the claims Mearsheimer is making?

What claims need verifying? He's presenting a perspective.

Have you verified whether NATO is actually a thread to Russia? How about you start there.

[Bobby_2021]

This is rather a neural reporting by an Indian Media.

Must watch for all those who think that Putin is evil/crazy. You are blind sided by western agenda.

 

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, Fleetinglife said:

This sounds like you are living in some wishful thinking, bubbled, shielded personal version of a delusional reality

I'm living in the real world. Maybe it's you who needs a wake up.

[Vrubel]

49 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I think Western media has also misunderstood what Putin means by Neo-Nazi's. I don't think he means anti-Semites. I think he means Ukrainian nationalists. Maybe I'm wrong about this. I don't know exactly what Putin means.

Is he overblowing his justification? Probably. That's what most countries do when they start a war. The threat is usually over-exaggerated and the other side demonized.

Regardless, "neo-nazi" is dehumanizing as shit. 

And the regions that Putin is brutally invading are the chill parts where Russians and Ukrainians lived peacefully side by side. Ukraine's nationalist heartland is in the west. But even they are just regular stage blue nationalists just like Russians, Poles, Lithuanians etc.

[Epikur]

1 minute ago, Bobby_2021 said:

This is rather a neural reporting by an Indian Media.

Must watch for all those who think that Putin is evil/crazy. You are blind sided by western agenda.

 

India is pro Russia because it gets weapons from Russia that it can not get from the US.

[Scholar]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What claims need verifying? He's presenting a perspective.

Have you verified whether NATO is actually a thread to Russia? How about you start there.

Wait, what do you think is Destiny's critique of Mearsheimer then?

 

Nobody is an actual security risk to Russia because Russia has nuclear weapons. Once you do, your national security in terms of war is secured. Russia has issues maintaining it's economic security, and that's in my view the best lense you can understand this conflict from, in the context of certain biases that Putin holds.

 

We don't live in the 20th century anymore.

[tsuki]

I wonder why Biden is so hell-bent on humiliating Putin. Is it a reaction against Trump?