How can one trust the insights received from man made chemicals?

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, evolving55555 said:

That's what I'm thinking about. I need more clarification to justify taking man-made drugs 

The same you justify taking a natural drug: how dangerous is it?

[Jodistrict]

If you are a scientific reductionist, then it directly follows that synthetic = natural.  Because you have decided that the only one thing that is relevant is something you label “5-meo-DMT”, and that one thing appears in both the synthetic and the natural source.   The logical response of the reductionist mind is ridicule of anything that declares relevance for any other factor outside of its narrow model – the polar opposite of the mind expansion that entheogens can unleash.    

 Questioner:  What do you feel about synthetic DMT in ayahausca?  Do you feel the magic is lost when it is synthesized?  And there is no ritual aspect to taking of ayahuasca?

Terence McKenna 

Well it’s not so much that the ritual is lost, as that the people who are doing the making, the taking, and the shaping may not understand what they are getting into.  A drug like synthetic ayahausca.  Do people realize that it is the same thing that has been taken for thousands of years down there.  Do they realize its role in Shamanic healing in all this.  It is just one more example of how everything is desacralized and corrupted.  The first thing, ayahuasca in never heard of, and now everybody wants it because it is the only thing anyone is talking about.  So it goes from this mystery to being a fad or rage.  Then it becomes an income source.  And once it becomes an income source.  It’s a commodity.  Like journalism, sex, aluminum, whatever is being peddled on the open market.

[evolving55555]

@Jodistrict yeah I might not have been clear enough. Synthetic ayahuasca is a synthetic version of what's in the plant which I would be fine with. I'm talking about an example like a psychedelic like 5-MeO-MALT, substances that are totally man-made.

Edited March 9, 2022 by evolving55555

[evolving55555]

On 3/8/2022 at 11:00 AM, Carl-Richard said:

The same you justify taking a natural drug: how dangerous is it?

@Jodistrict I'm not talking about how dangerous it is, I'm talking about the veracity of the epiphanies and insights that we get on these drugs.

[Jodistrict]

4 hours ago, evolving55555 said:

@Jodistrict yeah I might not have been clear enough. Synthetic ayahuasca is a synthetic version of what's in the plant which I would be fine with. I'm talking about an example like a psychedelic like 5-MeO-MALT, substances that are totally man-made.

I only take natural medicines under the Shamanic traditions, so I have no experience with anything synthetic.

You can’t trust any chemical, synthetic or natural, to give you true insights, as long as you have an ego which can distort virtually any experience, including a psychedelic journey.   Even, an ego dissolving substance, such as Bufo, can cause false insights, because the ego dissolution only lasts a few moments and then the ego comes back again and can interpret the experience to further aggrandize the ego.  

The advantage of natural is that the ancestors have sifted through the thousands of plants that can produce visions, and found the handful that are both safe and healing.  

If you want true visions, focus on the process – which includes ritual and purification of the mind.  For example, Ayahausca is the master plant of the Amazon.  But there are dozens of other plants that are used to detox and purify the mind and body to prepare you for receiving clear visions.   Purification is the purpose of the “dieta”.   Ceremony engenders humility.  To receive pure visions, first purify your mind.
 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Jodistrict

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, evolving55555 said:

@Jodistrict I'm not talking about how dangerous it is, I'm talking about the veracity of the epiphanies and insights that we get on these drugs.

Then again, I will refer you to cyanide and other natural poisons. Do they produce epiphanies? There is no correlation there.

[PepperBlossoms]

On 3/8/2022 at 8:36 AM, zurew said:

@PepperBlossoms

If we radically change the chemical levels in your brain and body, your perception of 'reality' will radically change as well. Not only just that, but your identity will change automatically as well. Why do you want to be attached to only one state? What you think you know about yourself and the world is only attached to that one state. You can discover yourself from different states and you can do that with the world aswell. Why and on what basis assume that one state is superior to another? The main reason why you think you are a human is because you took this state for granted and think that only this state can provide the right perspective. Even the 'chemical level story in the brain' is attached to this identity and knowledge that you try to ground reality and yourself in. 

Also what you can't forget, that even if you assume that there is a reality out there outside of you, even within that framework you can only experience your version of reality. You cannot escape your peception. You always distort reality and can only experience your own distortion of it. Name one thing that was outside of your experience. You basically cannot do it, because it will be automatically be in your experience in one way or another. Also i want to add here, about your perception of your own self and about your identity that it is also distorted by you. You don't see yourself in its whole form, because you only experience your distorted, biased version of it. Thats why most spiritual teaching is about ego death, is because if the ego is dead, then the distortion and bias will be gone automatically. If you take up any finite identity, there will always be some distortion and bias. You don't have to agree with that, but just think about it, and contemplate it.

I was scared to read responses to this thread for awhile because I felt bad after posting what I had posted.

Great points there @zurew .

[zurew]

2 hours ago, PepperBlossoms said:

I was scared to read responses to this thread for awhile because I felt bad after posting what I had posted.

Don't feel bad about it. Its good to question things. Just make sure, you question your own beliefs as well.

Have a great day!