The fine line between enlightenment and mental instability

[Mips]

My daughter have been through bouts of intense solipsism in the past, not as a freeing enlightenment experience but a frightening, disorientating episode alongside intense hallucinations. She suffered with this for a long time at the age of 14-15, devastated that her parents or anyone else were non-existent and experiencing disassociation and derealisation. None of it was good & we've had a terrible three year battle to get her back to some form of mental stability. She's finally in recovery, thankfully.

I'm interested in what separates this type of seemingly spontaneous, experience from truly peaceful, steady, wakeful solipsism? Of course, I understand that preparation, depth of understanding etc. play a part, but would like to understand more deeply.

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Mips said:

I'm interested in what separates this type of seemingly spontaneous, experience from truly peaceful, steady, wakeful solipsism?

Well, in a true awakening you would realize that your daughter and her solipsism is something you imagined to keep yourself asleep

[Zeroguy]

More conscious=More stable in every sense.

You are dreaming forever,how can you be asleep.

[WelcometoReality]

@Mips Ultimately solipsism and enlightenment are different things. Solipsism is the belief that all you experience is your senses and you can't know whether anyone else exists or not so you are alone.

Enlightenment is the realization that there is no separate self, no you that is having experiences. Reality wakes up through you. With it comes peace and non-existence. 

[Mips]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, in a true awakening you would realize that your daughter and her solipsism is something you imagined to keep yourself asleep

I like this response. But on the more mundane level I'd like my daughter to be well. I mean there must be some value to her being well & happy. I wouldn't desert her or ditch her as a result of her ultimately not being real - there must be something to that, no?

[Zeroguy]

@WelcometoReality Enlightenment is actual .

You are actual Infinite Love forever.

You are God.

[mandyjw]

Negative emotions indicate that your interpretation of reality is false. 

Enlightenment is the realization YOU are not the entity you think you are. You are not a thought. So when one believes thoughts about themselves or reality as a whole and interprets this in a way that is limited it will result in negative emotion. Solipsism is the attempt of the mind to grasp or own enlightenment. It feels horrific to do this. It's like trying to grasp onto a burning flame to own it. Only letting go will suffice, and will also allow the flame the oxygen it needs to burn on its own. You cannot understand deeper, think more to get out. You are already out. You can let go of the thoughts that hurt, then relax, and allow true insight to surface. 

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/aligning-thought-with-feeling

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/spheres

[Loba]

Hi Mips!  We all have, deep within ourselves the capacity to heal and our souls know what that is and what it needs to feel whole again.
I would ask her to contemplate deeply on what she feels she needs from you and her environment in order to heal.
A journal can help uncover these things, so give her the opportunity to write a diary or journal and let her really delve into what it is going to take.
The soul aka higher self knows what path it needs to take to get to where it needs to be, we can only guess what she might need.
Then, as she uncovers aspects of herself, allow her the opportunity to have those things/moments/experiences/ect.

Read up on the individuation process; Stanislav Groff has a lot of info on spiritual emergencies as well.
Студопедия — Psychological Renewal through Return to the Center - https://studopedia.info/6-85774.html  Here's an example of Groff's work.

https://www.amazon.com/Stormy-Search-Self-Personal-Transformational/dp/087477649X

Quote

Many people are undergoing a profound personal transformation associated with spiritual opening. Under favorable circumstances, this process results in emotional healing, a radical shift in values, and a profound awareness of the mystical dimension of existence. For some, these changes are gradual and relatively smooth, but for others they can be so rapid and dramatic that they interfere with effective everyday functioning, creating tremendous inner turmoil. Unfortunately, many traditional health-care professionals do not recognize the positive potential of these crises; they often see them as manifestations of mental disease and repsond with stigmatizing labels, suppressive drugs, and even institutionalization.

In The Stormy Search for the Self, Christina and Stanislav Grof, the world's foremost authorities on the subject of spiritual emergence, draw on years of dramatic personal and professional experience with transformative states to explore these "spiritual emergencies," altered states so powerful they threaten to overwhelm the individual's oridinary reality. This book will provide insights, assurances, and practical suggestions for those who are experiencing or have experienced such a crisis, for their families and friends, and for mental-health professionals. It is also a valuable guide for anyone involved in personal transformation whose experiences, though generally untraumatic, may still at times be bewildering or disorienting.

http://maryshutan.com/what-is-spiritual-healing/  
This author has a series of books that could be of help as well.  She is a shaman who does energy work.

http://maryshutan.com/books-2/
Here's her book list, I can personally attest that the advice found in them is solid and sound.

I would suggest these books to start with: The Spiritual Awakening Guide: Kundalini, Psychic Abilities, and the Conditioned Layers of Reality, Managing Psychic Abilities: A Real World Guide for the Highly Sensitive Person, The Body Deva: Working with the Spiritual Consciousness of the Body, and The Complete Cord Cutting Course: Working with Cords through Energy Work and Shamanic Healing.

These books have a lot of advice on how to ground one's self.  You could read/do them together.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Loba

[WelcometoReality]

Just now, Zeroguy said:

@WelcometoReality Enlightenment is actual .

You are actual Infinite Love forever.

You are God.

Either that has been realized or it hasn't.

Telling someone that they're are God can make some very dangerous egos.

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Mips said:

But on the more mundane level I'd like my daughter to be well.

Of course, I get it.

Quote

I mean there must be some value to her being well & happy.

Only in your mind.

But I get it.

Quote

I wouldn't desert her or ditch her as a result of her ultimately not being real - there must be something to that, no?

Well, what's to that is that she's a central part of your dream.

- - - - - -

To answer your question in a practical way, the difference is that there are many unusual and strange states of consciousness which could even be mystical, but they are not awakening or God-realization proper. And also, her ego-mind might be struggling to properly make sense of and integrate genuine spiritual insights. Or her awakenings and spiritual insights may be very lopsided and incomplete.

The hallmark of the deepest awakenings is the overwhelming, intense recognition of Love, Beauty, and Perfection. Without these the awakening is incomplete and can feel negative.

If your awakening is not the happiest moment of your life, then you haven't really awoken. You should be dying from joy. Awakening is literally heaven.

[Gili Trawangan]

42 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Solipsism is the attempt of the mind to grasp or own enlightenment. It feels horrific to do this.

This.

[Matthew85]

45 minutes ago, Mips said:

I wouldn't desert her or ditch her as a result of her ultimately not being real - there must be something to that, no?

@Mips I would caution against thinking of her not being real until you validate that for yourself through direct experience. In the most expanded states of awareness I have reached it was my experience that everything in the universe is consciousness/awareness. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Matthew85

[Mips]

46 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course, I get it.

Only in your mind.

But I get it.

Well, what's to that is that she's a central part of your dream.

- - - - - -

To answer your question in a practical way, the difference is that there are many unusual and strange states of consciousness which could even be mystical, but they are not awakening or God-realization proper. And also, her ego-mind might be struggling to properly make sense of and integrate genuine spiritual insights. Or her awakenings and spiritual insights may be very lopsided and incomplete.

The hallmark of the deepest awakenings is the overwhelming, intense recognition of Love, Beauty, and Perfection. Without these the awakening is incomplete and can feel negative.

If your awakening is not the happiest moment of your life, then you haven't really awoken. You should be dying from joy. Awakening is literally heaven.

Thanks, much appreciated ?

[Gesundheit2]

In practice, solipsism contradicts morality. But (everyone) feel free to do mental gymnastics around this truth.

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

In practice, solipsism contradicts morality. But (everyone) feel free to do mental gymnastics around this truth.

Lol are you not going to elaborate?

[Leo Gura]

Morality contradicts itself, as any finite system must.

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Morality contradicts itself, as any finite system must.

A gem.  

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

In practice, solipsism contradicts morality. But (everyone) feel free to do mental gymnastics around this truth.

Morality is held within Oneness and is finite.  So it's not that Oneness contradicts morality it is that morality must collapse into Oneness

[Gesundheit2]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Lol are you not going to elaborate?

Well for starters, solipsism doesn't make clear distinctions between right and wrong since everything is relative to (and for) the solipsist. At best, you can have a pragmatic sense of morality, but not a fundamental sense (which is not necessarily a bad or even false thing, imo). In other words, you don't really care about others (because they don't exist in the first place), but you can act like you do care because you might perceive it as beneficial to you.

 

[Carl-Richard]

44 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

At best, you can have a pragmatic sense of morality, but not a fundamental sense (which is not necessarily a bad or even false thing, imo).

So you conceded your entire point