"Life is a dream" Question

[WokeBloke]

So I have to admit this comment has seriously thrown me off. 

 

Now this might be a matter of definitions. Perhaps how you define a dream and how I define a dream is very different.

In my mind the most fundamental aspect of a dream is that the other characters in the dream are fake. What I mean is they don't have their own lives whereas presumably in this world each person is actually experiencing.

 

So, when someone tells me that "Life is a dream" I start thinking they are telling me that everybody I see in my waking life is fake. In other words I think no-one actually reads this post. There is a huge distinction between these 3 scenarios

1. All the bodies in my world are mine and thus as real as my body

2. All the bodies in my world are not mine but they are conscious like me

3. All the bodies in my world are not mine and they are unconscious which means this really is a dream

 

Perhaps I am misinterpreting what people mean when they say this.

But obviosuly it's hard to take the world seriously if I think the other bodies are fake. And it causes me a lot of stress because I can't tell if the comment itself is delusional or if you guys are trying to wake me up from this fake life.

Otherwise if you actually are aware then I can't wake up from this "dream" because you aren't a dream you are actually real.

[Inliytened1]

@WokeBloke it works exactly like your night time dreams.  You cannot tell the difference inside the dream between reality and the dream because there is nothing to compare it to.   It's total. There is nothing outside of it so it becomes reality by default.  That's why in your night time dreams you think they are real until you wake up.  When you awaken you step outside of it.   But before then you are not conscious that you can step outside of it thus it becomes reality.  

After you awaken you can once again fool yourself by a kind of forgetting that it's a dream, because again there is no other reality then imagination.  Imagination IS reality.  But at the same time you have a lucidity to you.  You have non-dual awareness.  

[Kksd74628]

@WokeBloke

As I told you in discord call I am fake from your point of view and you are fake from my point of view, because actually we don't exist at the same time. It's replay again and again from different "perspectives". So when I am there where you are NOW then in that moment everything is "your" imagination and therefore "others" don't have their own perspective.

Also could you finally answer to me why you suddenly started ignoring me. Because I would like to know if I said something wrong, because you left the discord call during my speech. And if you did it, because of your stress then I understand, but if that is the case then as you - as I am actually  - I would stop asking these questions, because they lead to the same conclusion I told you before. How long it takes, to that I can't answer : )

[WokeBloke]

36 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@WokeBloke it works exactly like your night time dreams.  You cannot tell the difference inside the dream between reality and the dream because there is nothing to compare it to.   It's total. There is nothing outside of it so it becomes reality by default.  That's why in your night time dreams you think they are real until you wake up.  When you awaken you step outside of it.   But before then you are not conscious that you can step outside of it thus it becomes reality.  

After you awaken you can once again fool yourself by a kind of forgetting that it's a dream, because again there is no other reality then imagination.  Imagination IS reality.  But at the same time you have a lucidity to you.  You have non-dual awareness.  

But I don't see how you can awaken from waking life if other people are real. In other words they don't just exist in your mind they have their own minds whereas dreams exist only in your mind.

[WokeBloke]

36 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@WokeBloke

As I told you in discord call I am fake from your point of view and you are fake from my point of view, because actually we don't exist at the same time. It's replay again and again from different "perspectives". So when I am there where you are NOW then in that moment everything is "your" imagination and therefore "others" don't have their own perspective.

Also could you finally answer to me why you suddenly started ignoring me. Because I would like to know if I said something wrong, because you left the discord call during my speech. And if you did it, because of your stress then I understand, but if that is the case then as you - as I am actually  - I would stop asking these questions, because they lead to the same conclusion I told you before. How long it takes, to that I can't answer : )

According to our discord conversation you don't think I exist which is false from my perspective. You also don't think you exist so how could you know about my existence if you don't exist?

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

But I don't see how you can awaken from waking life if other people are real. 

Now your catching on....

See this is the part of the teachings from teachers like Rupert Spira that expose where their teachings ultimately fall apart.  And this is what user @GreenWoods eluded to in another thread.  You couldn't become God if others were actual.  When you become God all minds collapse into you because they were pseudo minds.

[machiavelli]

@Inliytened1 It all makes sense but some other guy was saying " no two lifetimes are happening concurrently". Isnt it absurd to say this? 

He even said that when I am living this life time as GOD all other people are empty suit dreamed up  GOD at the time of creation. 

Actually what he was  trying to explain that God first dreamed up empty suits and then jumped to characters one at a time . For example, in my current experience other people are just empty suit imagined by me . And when I as GOD die I will live another character which was empty suit in my previous life time. Isnt it all sound absurd?

 

Some things to clarify~

1. Whether in my own consciousness I am dreaming up all lifes simulatenously .

2. There are infinite number of beings in universe ; I am imagining their experiences too in this lifetime simulatenously.

 

 

[Kksd74628]

@WokeBloke

Don't you understand that both of our perspectives exist, but not in the same time so it is like first night dreaming as bear talking to rabbit and everything around you is illusion and no one else is conscious, but second night dreaming as rabbit talking to bear and everything is illusion again and you are the only one conscious. Trap is to believe that both of these dreams happen simultaneously same night. Hope that this helps you.

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@Inliytened1 It all makes sense but some other guy was saying " no two lifetimes are happening concurrently". Isnt it absurd to say this? 

He even said that when I am living this life time as GOD all other people are empty suit dreamed up  GOD at the time of creation. 

Actually what he was  trying to explain that God first dreamed up empty suits and then jumped to characters one at a time . For example, in my current experience other people are just empty suit imagined by me . And when I as GOD die I will live another character which was empty suit in my previous life time. Isnt it all sound absurd?

 

Some things to clarify~

1. Whether in my own consciousness I am dreaming up all lifes simulatenously .

2. There are infinite number of beings in universe ; I am imagining their experiences too in this lifetime simulatenously.

 

 

Again simultaneously implies time which is imaginary.   There is only what you as God are dreaming right now.   And theres not even really that there is only You.  Focus on what is actual not what might be happening somewhere else.  It is in what is actual that reveals Truth.  

[machiavelli]

44 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Again simultaneously implies time which is imaginary.   There is only what you as God are dreaming right now.   And theres not even really that there is only You.  Focus on what is actual not what might be happening somewhere else.  It is in what is actual that reveals Truth.  

@Inliytened1 So you mean I am only thing that exist in entire universe that is imagining my parents, friends, and every sentient being? Just like a dream?

 

[WokeBloke]

2 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@Inliytened1 So you mean I am only thing that exist in entire universe that is imagining my parents, friends, and every sentient being? Just like a dream?

 

You aren't imagining me for what its worth. I am aware of your post.

[Leo Gura]

You also have to keep in mind that your butt hole is "fake" too. It only exist within your dream.

Before you started dreaming your birth, you had no butt hole. And you won't have one after you stop dreaming. In fact, you don't really have a butt hole until you imagine it -- which you are doing right now.

The claim isn't that other people are imaginary, the claim is that absolutely everything is imaginary, including your own body and life. If your own body is imaginary, what room does that leave for other people?

[Tech36363]

@Leo Gura if god puts so much work in creating this reality and fooling itself thinking there are others , then after awakening i am at the same spot where i started . Doesnt that mean i will take a/imagine finite human form again 

[Leo Gura]

@Tech36363 Certainly God can awaken and then fall back asleep. This is most common.

You're not completely at the same spot, however. The awakenings change you, even if you fall asleep. You never go back to being totally asleep.

[machiavelli]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You also have to keep in mind that your butt hole is "fake" too. It only exist within your dream.

Before you started dreaming your birth, you had no butt hole. And you won't have one after you stop dreaming. In fact, you don't really have a butt hole until you imagine it -- which you are doing right now.

The claim isn't that other people are imaginary, the claim is that absolutely everything is imaginary, including your own body and life. If your own body is imaginary, what room does that leave for other people?

@Leo Gura Am I imagining other people thoughts too? Am I imagining other people just like my own human body simulatenously? 

Is it happening simulatenously or non-concurrently?

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by machiavelli

[WokeBloke]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You also have to keep in mind that your butt hole is "fake" too. It only exist within your dream.

Before you started dreaming your birth, you had no butt hole. And you won't have one after you stop dreaming. In fact, you don't really have a butt hole until you imagine it -- which you are doing right now.

The claim isn't that other people are imaginary, the claim is that absolutely everything is imaginary, including your own body and life. If your own body is imaginary, what room does that leave for other people?

I guess I don't understand why you are calling it imaginary if this is what you actually created. Like the things that happen in the world are not imaginary happenings they are the things that actually happen to you.  

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@Leo Gura Am I imagining other people thoughts too?

Yes, you're imagining that I have thoughts right now.

Quote

Am I imagining other people just like my own human body simulatenously?

No. Your body is a deeper layer of imagination than the minds of others that you are imagining. We could say that your body is "more real" than the minds of others. But ultimately it's all imaginary.

6 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

I guess I don't understand why you are calling it imaginary if this is what you actually created. Like the things that happen in the world are not imaginary happenings they are the things that actually happen to you.  

Imagination is reality. The problem is that you're not conscious of that and I am trying to help you become conscious of that.

The problem is that when you look at your hand you don't realize that it is imaginary, but I would like you to one day realize that. That is what I am guiding your towards.

[BipolarGrowth]

You can use “fabricated” in place of “imaginary” in certain cases too. It might drive the point home in a slightly different way. 

[WokeBloke]

@Leo Gura So you think your hand is imaginary but do you think that you are imaginary? If not then there must be a dimension of reality that is not imagined but is doing the imagining.

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

@Leo Gura So you think your hand is imaginary but do you think that you are imaginary?

I am absolute imagination. What I imagine is Absolute Truth. I am identical to whatever I am imagining. So if I am sitting, taking a shit on a toilet, I am that toilet absolutely.

You are mistaking "imaginary" here to mean "unreal". But it's the opposite. Imagination is reality.

Quote

If not then there must be a dimension of reality that is not imagined but is doing the imagining.

Yes and no. Yes in that that dimension is pure Infinity (empty consciousness). No in that emptiness is identical form.

What's doing the imagining is Emptiness/Nothingness. But they are also identical.

A blank canvas and a painting are identical, occupying the same location.