Do you build confidence by doing pick-up?

[Lincisman]

Do you build confidence in pickup by doing it or by doing other things (career, skills, hobbies, etc.)?

It appears to me that just as there are certain pc requirements for software in the same way men have to have a certain initial level of self-esteem, achievement in other aspects of life, and confidence in order to do pick-up.

I am asking this because when I go out with my wings I feel anxious, shy, and obvious lack self-love to the point where these emotions source negative thoughts about myself. I feel like I am worthless, offer no value. Hell, when I am in the mood like this I would not want to sleep with myself if I were a girl.

I think that if I do not feel good about my own life, there is no way in hell I can get results in this (pick-up)endeavor. 

Of course, some days are better than others and after a few approaches it gets better, and sometimes I feel really good.

Do I build my self-esteem by gaming or by doing stuff that is outside of that?

wait

I know it is both.

The question is to what extent. Which of these will increase my pickup results more? Or is it the case that I cannot have results in pickup unless I fix other things in my life that sources my low self-esteem?

Maybe I should stop that and focus more on more basic things.

 

 

 

 

[itachi uchiha]

do a technique called navi kriya from kriya yoga and u will lose your fear

manipura chakra is responsible for the fear. if u work on that chakra then u will be able to reduce your fear

[Spence94]

@Lincisman  Both. If you approach women, you will get more condifent at approaching women. If you work on your Self in all areas of your life, including your inner world ( traumas, supressed emotions etc.) you will get better results with women. if you meditate you will be more present which will result in better results with women. The point is, women care about the man. Yeah you need to be able to approach but you also need to be a man of value at the very core, and what does that look like? Having your shit together brother, having something outside of pickup you live for and you feel good about and being happy just because. 

There is another very important distinction here though...

1 hour ago, Lincisman said:

The question is to what extent. Which of these will increase my pickup results more? Or is it the case that I cannot have results in pickup unless I fix other things in my life that sources my low self-esteem?

You need to work on yourself for yourself. NOT because of the pickup results. Ultimatley this lack of self-esteem and self love is part of the reason you're doing pick up. Not that there is anything wrong with pick up or that your desire isn't natural, but often, pick upis used to fill that gap in your sense of self worth.

If you want results with women and you wanna genuinly be happy in life, you gotta build your life up and work on yourself, for your Self, not for the pick up results. Counter-intuitively if you do this, your results with women will significantly improve, both in terms of quanitity and quality, but that depends on what you care about. Quite frankly I would rather work on my life and be happy, and get good results with some amazing women than feel like shit inside, get mediocre results with women and only feel good about myself when I get 'success‘ in pick up.

You already know the answers it seems. You're not stupid. You just need to wrap your mind around this counter intuitive move.

Hope that helped man. I feel ya.

[vizual]

I have found that the only sureway to find a good base level of confidence is to be living your lifes purpose, to which the bulk of your time and efforts should be spent on. That confidence will then carry over and help you in side endeavors.

If you are looking for your confidence from girls you are setting yourself up for failure and pain.

[Lincisman]

1 hour ago, Spence94 said:

The point is, women care about the man. Yeah you need to be able to approach but you also need to be a man of value at the very core, and what does that look like? Having your shit together brother, having something outside of pickup you live for and you feel good about and being happy just because. 

You are right. I cannot get the results in pickup without changing my inner self into a person who women find attractive, or can I? That would be so fake on my part.

[Lincisman]

1 hour ago, Spence94 said:

You need to work on yourself for yourself. NOT because of the pickup results. Ultimatley this lack of self-esteem and self love is part of the reason you're doing pick up. Not that there is anything wrong with pick up or that your desire isn't natural, but often, pick upis used to fill that gap in your sense of self worth.

Now, this was refreshing. This thought was in the back of my mind but not fully explicit. Thank you. 

[Lincisman]

1 hour ago, Spence94 said:

Hope that helped man. I feel ya.

It did. Thank you for clearing that up. 

[Lincisman]

40 minutes ago, vizual said:

I have found that the only sureway to find a good base level of confidence is to be living your lifes purpose, to which the bulk of your time and efforts should be spent on. That confidence will then carry over and help you in side endeavors.

If you are looking for your confidence from girls you are setting yourself up for failure and pain.

Thanks for the reply. Did not think about LP in this context. Of course, this is what I am lacking in my life. 

[Federico del pueblo]

@Lincisman

As you already concluded yourself, you'll build your confidence in both ways.

Doing pick up will build this very specific kind of confidence, like becoming more confident at approaching and then flirting etc.

All other things, like your LP, interests/hobbies will build your base level of confidence and make you feel like you have value to offer.

There are certain traps though.

Don't think your life has to be absolutely amazing for you to be confident with women. This can happen if you compare yourself to other guys to much and spend to much time on Instagram or similar apps/social media. So don't create a limiting belief that you always must have tons of cool things going for you, you don't.

If you become better at the game itself this creates a new type of value too. If you're loose and fun and positive people enjoy being around you because they can let go and absorb your good energy.

[JonasVE12]

Approaching women is the best way to build self-esteem, man. I struggled with painfully low self-esteem for a long time. Approaching women was the scariest thing I have ever done in my life, until you get passed yourself of course. There is no other way that is as effective Imo. Nothing comes close. 

See, your mind will always look for reasons why you can not be successful right now. It will come up with stories that you need X or Y in order to attract women, but the only thing you need is self-esteem, which is not found in the addition of things. It is found it emptiness. In letting go of feelings. 

Each time when you approach, you have the chance to be more conscious in the moment about how you are handling the tension in your body. 

You said it yourself... After a few approaches, your nervous system calms down.

But anxiety and fear responses are habitual and ingrained patterns in your nervous system. Self-esteem is simply wired patterns in your nervous systems that are habitual and automatic. 

Think of becoming confident and building self-esteem as something that is very much the same as trying to build an exercise or meditation routine in a sense. Both are rewiring neural pathways in your nervous system that result in the embodiment and automation of that very thing. 

It may help to study some neuroscience to form a more intuitive sense of this. But look, you are trying to make a deep identity shift in an area you are facing some serious resistance. In order to change that, you need to take action on a daily basis, otherwise your nervous system will not have enough input and experience to really start adapting. It is difficult enough to install basic habits. Habits that require you to face enormous resistance is even more difficult. For example, when you would want to start eating healthy, would it be more effective to do it every single day? Or would you eat healthy for just 4 hours a day for 3 days a week. The most effective is that you let go completely of your old identity and fully decide on what you want. Being consistent each single day. 

To build the habit of becoming confident, you need to overcome emotional resistance, which makes it a very hard habit to commit to. But in the end, this resistance is all self-created and when you become conscious of that, which will happen bit by bit when you become consistent, you will let go of some of the resistance each time. 

These negative feelings and thoughts that you experience are very normal when you get out of apathy and start taking action. They are a signal that you are expanding. But of course, if you are reactive towards them, and not identified as the observer, then you will have a hard time. You want to build the ability to ground your feelings into the earth, you want to let go of tension in real time and open your energetic pathways such as the heart, legs, stomach, etc. You also want to approach more from a back-centered state of feeling, which gives you more grounding and containment. Which gives you less anxiety, shame and shyness. 

Try going outside and sitting under a tree, while you observe its own energy and try to replicate that flow of energy in your own being. You will start to get a feel for what being grounded means. I mean, look at a tree. Its base is strong, has its roots deep under the ground, it is stable as fuck. Which you want to be when you approach. It is like a simple meditation practice that you can do daily before you approach. It gets you in that grounded state of being. 

What makes approaching women work for building self-esteem is setting small goals each week and committing to them. Ask the time, do simple things until you feel more open and grounded with them, then move on to the next thing which is a bit more difficult. Again, this relaxes your nervous system and builds a sense of self-esteem that compounds over time. You become more grounded, comfortable and courageous as you progress with completing these smaller goals each day. 

You want to aim for 1% each day. You build a subconscious habit of succes in smaller things first, and then you become bolder each time. Which is automatic. The smaller things will grow bigger and bigger until you are sleeping with beautiful women. And this is a lot more effortless than when you would start approaching women from a very reactive and ungrounded place, frying your nervous system and shutting down for months because you cant handle the tension you bring to it. 

Your nervous system can only handle x amount of tension. If you are very socially anxious, and you approach a group of 20 people sitting down at a park, you will shit your pants, and even if you have done it, you will feel some relief, but your nervous system remembers the anticipation and you will resist it more the next time. So do things that are uncomfortable, but not too. But challenge yourself. You should feel anxiety and fear. Each time you feel that fear, and step into it, it grows you. 

Building confidence and self-esteem is like building muscles. And you do it daily. 

To add: by all means, strive to perfect your life in other areas. Of course it builds confidence and containment. Financial security, life purpose stuff, it is all important in making you an all rounded individual, but do not use it as an excuse to not take action right now because you are in resistance. That is the trick your mind will play on you. You want to feel so liberated, whole and confident that you do not need anything external in order to validate your worthiness. Even if you live in a van, you can get women. What matters is how you are feeling in your body. Which you can modulate now. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by JonasVE12

[aurum]

12 hours ago, Lincisman said:

The question is to what extent. Which of these will increase my pickup results more? Or is it the case that I cannot have results in pickup unless I fix other things in my life that sources my low self-esteem?

 

The thing that will increase your pickup results the most is doing pickup.

Yes, working on your general self-esteem may help. But it also may not. It’s not a guarantee that truly high self-esteem will turn you into an ultimate pickup machine. That is a lie PUA teachers sell.

Many of the guys I know who are the best at pickup are pretty damaged. Pickup becomes a way for them to fill that void. If you actually healed that wound, you may lose interest in pickup.

On the other hand, you have to have some level of self-efficacy and non-resistance to succeed in pickup. So working on your “inner game” might help there. And sorting out the other areas in your life may bleed into you having an easier time with pickup. 

It really depends on the guy and why you’re doing pickup in the first place. What do you want to get out of this?

[universe]

Short answer: yes.

Many men start with low confidence. Then, by talking to many girls and getting positive reactions, they tend to become more confident.

But If you are on the very low end (borderlining on depression) these positive reactions might not be enough, in which case I'd suggest therapy.

 

It's about the stories we tell ourselves and core beliefs, and some more.

[Raze]

No, doing game will only feed false self esteem. 

[Lincisman]

15 hours ago, JonasVE12 said:

See, your mind will always look for reasons why you can not be successful right now. It will come up with stories that you need X or Y in order to attract women, but the only thing you need is self-esteem, which is not found in the addition of things. It is found in emptiness. In letting go of feelings. 

I agree that letting go of these negative emotions in my body would increase my current level of satisfaction with myself. But I am not sure that I can build long-term self-esteem by letting go of negative emotions which are created by low self-esteem. I have read "the six pillars of self-esteem" and the thing is that I either have to practice the 6 pillars or/and change my values, beliefs, etc. to be more realistic and rational. This is how I understand it.   

[Ulax]

Game can you get you really effective at socialising. However, imo, its a rigged game.

You go from being really ineffective at getting your needs met by other people to being really effective at getting your needs met by other people. However, the better game to play is to transcend teh paradigm of getting your needs met by other people, and meet them yourself.

David Tian has some great content about the issues with PUA.

I believe in IFS as the best way to transcend this rigged game.

[Lincisman]

13 hours ago, aurum said:

What do you want to get out of this?

 I want skill and then fun and sex. To satisfy my biological and psychological machine. To learn about my mind and how it changes in this process.

 

"I don't want just to become a player, I want to become the best player of all time !." 

- my mind talking

[Jacob Morres]

@Lincisman I agree and felt this was one of the sticking points in conventional pua theory

Pua is not always the answer (to even get girls lol) 

Sometimes things like therapy, basic personal development, basic socializing, or something else can give you way better roi. Then when you're more ready you can move to picking up girls 

But yeah everyone has different needs. Pickup won't solve those internal issues that much (IME). I'd approach and feel like what you felt and game was just appropriate for me at the time. I needed way healthier inner game before I could properly approach, IME 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Jacob Morres

[JonasVE12]

5 hours ago, Lincisman said:

I agree that letting go of these negative emotions in my body would increase my current level of satisfaction with myself. But I am not sure that I can build long-term self-esteem by letting go of negative emotions which are created by low self-esteem. I have read "the six pillars of self-esteem" and the thing is that I either have to practice the 6 pillars or/and change my values, beliefs, etc. to be more realistic and rational. This is how I understand it.   

Self-esteem is just a construct. It is all about feeling which you embody as a natural state of being. If you let go of opposing emotions, you will embody emotions polar of that which you are releasing, which is confidence, which results in embodying long term high self esteem. Self-esteem never creates feelings or results, feelings create self-esteem. Self-esteem is conceptual. 'Self-esteem' is entirely originated in the body. In the sensations you experience in relationship to something. If you have a fear of spiders, which would be more effective; confronting the spider directly, observing the sensations and letting go of all resisting feelings when in face of the spider, in order that you become fully equanimous and in acceptance? Or would you do the stuff you mentioned?If you want to get rid of your low self esteem with women, you have to gain more experience face-to-face. The only thing that is in front of you and succes with women is your inability to confront the tension in your body that you resist when talking to them. And no amount of thinking and becoming rational is going to change those sensations. Letting go is what works. Letting go is an integrated approach though where you are taking the action, but letting go of the resisting sensations when doing so. 

 

[thenondualtankie]

@JonasVE12 Wow, I loved your post.

[Lincisman]

Thanks for all the information.

@JonasVE12 you seem to have a good grasp of emotions. What books have you read? These ideas that you are proposing are almost unheard of to me.