Leo featured in suicide cult article

[Manusia]

11 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Its Love.

Yeah man, you make me remember something.

[mandyjw]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I became conscious of this directly.  It has nothing to do with Leo.  I actually had this awakening before Leo..but that's neither here nor there.  Be careful what you assume.

I'M not dismissing YOU or YOUR awakening. I'm saying there never was a you to awaken to that there isn't a you. 

I mean, sure I'm dismissing "it", but I'm not dismissing YOU. I think you are Love and you are amazing, even the so called appearance of the separate you. 

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, mandyjw said:

 

The "dangers" of spiritual work makes it seem special and hard to obtain,

No it doesn't.   You are totally projecting that onto that statement.   In fact your doing a whole lot of projecting right now.

[Thought Art]

4 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

What if I told you your friends are stage blue. YOU are stage yellow. Above. Better than. What if I told you your friends and family are toxic and you should cut contact with toxic people? 

The "dangers" of spiritual work makes it seem special and hard to obtain, only for the smartest, bravest, most developed, highest consciousness. The hero goes through many dangers on his quest. This is implanted in everyone who thinks themselves to be a separate self, a character, a player. Watched any books or movies, ever? Seen the "Hero's Journey" episode? 

If you say there never were any threats to begin with, this isn't bravery. It's not bravery and it's not DANGEROUS to see that the rope IS NOT a snake.

But anyone who goes around saying "it is not" is "neo advaita". The one dismissing of the SOURCE of danger is dismissed. See how this works? 

Mandy, I know people who have ended up in mental institutions. There are dangers in spiritual work. People can lose their footings on reality, go insane, commit suicide because of the nihilism… they can discover uncomfortable truths about themselves or reality that lead them to extreme depression and confusion. 
 

Stop being so arrogant 

spiral dynamics is not a game of who is better than who…. 
The guy who made it is stage blue because those are HIS VALUES. Values are relative and the spiral stages are just a tool of categorizing peoples values based on an oberrsved trend of how people change over time. 
 

There are different human survival situations, different levels of education and access to information, different pursuits and interests.

Each level of the stage is important for survival. A humans value is inherent to them being human. Not based on a scale.

Scale is a tool to understand. Should be used and transcended.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Thought Art

[Inliytened1]

Just now, mandyjw said:

 I'm saying there never was a you to awaken to that there isn't a you. 

 

This is a key mistake.   There is a you to awake.  Guess who? GOD!

 

[Thought Art]

2 minutes ago, Manusia said:

Yeah man, you make me remember something.

“And that reminds me of Everything Now” -Arcadefire

[mandyjw]

6 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Mandy, I know people who have ended up in mental institutions. There are dangers in spiritual work. People can lose their footings on reality, go insane, commit suicide because of the nihilism… they can discover uncomfortable truths about themselves or reality that lead them to extreme depression and confusion.

Maybe it's because what "spiritual" is, isn't WORK, and when you TRY to DO work and the separate DOER it makes you suffer, which you then believe is the same thing as insanity? Who insists that it is in fact WORK and is in fact difficult? Maybe it's not that the danger is inherent in the spiritual, but that it's in the idea of the self who needs to do work to be ok with themselves? 

6 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Stop being so arrogant 

Again, HOW, HOW please tell me how, what I'm saying is arrogant? I'm saying people are parallel. There aren't levels. There isn't higher consciousness. There's just you. being. Love. Read my comments then read Leo's. Please tell me why I'M the arrogant one for pointing this out, when people are in fact actually dying around here? 

Edited March 10, 2022 by mandyjw

[Manusia]

1 minute ago, Danioover9000 said:

 I think he meant with calling it elitist, is that there are barriers of entry to accessing the necessary psychedelics, at volume and at certain levels of intensity, that it's not easy to go through wothout having the extra cash for it,because it depends on your value system, cognitive and moral development, personality traits,states of being and general and specific life experiences and genetics that will act sometimes as barriers of entry.

I got this. And I think this is a valid statement that spirituality or experiencing love is an elite thing to do. To even start to considering pursuing spirituality or psychedelic in spiritual purpose I think one need to be certain ways of thinking, value system, cognitive, moral etc like what you say. And I think desire for become whole in love is elite mind.

But hey, I don't get the desire anymore.. I feel I need money now lol. 

[Danioover9000]

@mandyjw

12 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

What if I told you your friends are stage blue. YOU are stage yellow. Above. Better than. What if I told you your friends and family are toxic and you should cut contact with toxic people? 

The "dangers" of spiritual work makes it seem special and hard to obtain, only for the smartest, bravest, most developed, highest consciousness. The hero goes through many dangers on his quest. This is implanted in everyone who thinks themselves to be a separate self, a character, a player. Watched any books or movies, ever? Seen the "Hero's Journey" episode? 

If you say there never were any threats to begin with, this isn't bravery. It's not bravery and it's not DANGEROUS to see that the rope IS NOT a snake.

But anyone who goes around saying "it is not" is "neo advaita". The one dismissing of the SOURCE of danger is dismissed. See how this works? 

   Well, from the limited context and information I have, I have to assume you are behaving cult like for the first half of your speech.

   But I don't see how this place is a cult, I can freely  come and gofrom this place, a typical cult leader won't allow this, Leo sucks at being a cult leaader, sorry. People who keep using this point to attack are dreaming, deluded, in denial and are too sunk cost in fallacy and in their positions to see how dumb that attack is really.

   If anything, Youtube drama Reactionaries have more similarities to a cult leader than Leo, how they band wagon and sat and do stuff to excite their followers they have. Way more similarities to a cult.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Danioover9000

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Manusia said:

I got this. And I think this is a valid statement that spirituality or experiencing love is an elite thing to do. To even start to considering pursuing spirituality or psychedelic in spiritual purpose I think one need to be certain ways of thinking, value system, cognitive, moral etc like what you say. And I think desire for become whole in love is elite mind.

But hey, I don't get the desire anymore.. I feel I need money now lol. 

Yes i think you do need the desire..or you can just stumble on it as well..meditate and discover some amazing shit

 

[Manusia]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

 But you are God dreaming up this dream and thus you have the ability to manipulate it as God - not as the ego.  

So you as your body and ego right now cannot manipulate reality?

[mandyjw]

@Danioover9000

Definition of cult

1: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious (see SPURIOUS sense 2)also : its body of adherents the voodoo cult a satanic cult

2a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (such as a film or book)criticizing how the media promotes the cult of celebrity especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad

b: the object of such devotion

c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion the singer's cult of fans The film has a cult following.

3: a system of religious beliefs and ritualalso : its body of adherentsthe cult of Apollo

4: formal religious veneration : WORSHIP

5: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult

 

It's a cult. Especially when you are being dismissed for using the dictionary to define what a cult is. That's just a cult in denial that it's a cult. Of course a cult can't deny that it's a cult, because there is no "cult", really, there are just people believing stuff. And apparently cults/groups where people believe the same stuff. When that stuff becomes destructive, we examine.

It's destructive. That's what I'm saying. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by mandyjw

[Inliytened1]

Just now, Manusia said:

So you as your body and ego right now cannot manipulate reality?

Your mind is in a finite state right now so you have cut off access to yourself from doing that otherwise whole dream would collapse and dissolve 

[Manusia]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

Your mind is in a finite state right now so you have cut off access to yourself from doing that otherwise whole dream would collapse and dissolve 

But I am right now consciously typing and manipulate for what I am want to type, which is it is... reality. 

[RMQualtrough]

32 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

I’m here right now ?

I’ve  definitely been in low conscious states and higher conscious states 

some people are more awake than others

some people are more skilled than others

some people are more educated than others

its part of life 

different teachers have different goals 

I don’t know who is most awake but it’s obvious to me that different paths have different results ?

Mira probably not linear

God realization is a pretty big awakening and lots of teachers don’t teach this

and people get lost in verbal spiritual dirhea and concepts and dogmas 

And of course this is all taking place at a relative level. Everyone and everything is of course completely, absolutely, ultimately equivalent.

And then you end up with a bunch of leaves debating which of them is most like the tree. Ha ha. One leaf says "I'M MORE TREE (AWAKE)!" and another is like "no I am!" There's just tree.

Relaively, Rupert Spira is he best teacher to help leaves recognize the tree that they are. Leo's Actualized Clips tend to be better than the whole sermons IMO. Very very good clip recently about identifying with the impermanent (e.g. a self) vs the deathlessness of the totality of existence as a singular unit.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Manusia said:

But I am right now consciously typing and manipulate for what I am want to type, which is it is... reality. 

Yeah I can get a cup of coffee

I thought you meant at the higher levels of imagination where the dream is being formulated.

[RMQualtrough]

5 minutes ago, Manusia said:

So you as your body and ego right now cannot manipulate reality?

This whole control idea is madness I think... It doesn't make logical sense, but also not sense even relatively if you really explore what is happening within your own "choices". Even in your lucid dreams at night where you "control" the dream. If you really explore that, see where precisely the choice appears, and then what chose that the choice should appear.

There is definitely a sentience to reality. See: we are sentient. But not only us, look at "unconscious" living things, like plants. There is an intelligence to plants in elements like recognition of light, growing towards the light etc.

Sentience and intelligence does not really equate to control or manipulation. The "unfolding" of creation all by itself, limitless etc. that seems a much better way to phrase it. As Leo did phrase it in a recent video... Riding the wave of limitless unstoppable creation...

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

38 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@AdeptusPsychonautica if you are referring to this quote by Leo:

"I can help you to discover that you are God. When you do realize that you are God, this will instantaneously solve every single problem in your life, not only that but it will heal you, it will heal you of every disease and problem that you have"

Yes when I was referring to that quote which I did by posting that exact quote in this thread, then I was indeed referring to that quote... excellent work Holmes.

41 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

As I pointed out before enlightenment does not permanently heal you of any illnesses you had previously. 

Firstly the quote makes no mention of enlightenment, so lets stick with the words that are already there rather than muddying the waters. Secondly we already talked about what kind of healing might be possible within such altered states (trauma, psychological, emotional). Thirdly whether or not such changes are permanent was not ever discussed, this is something you seem to be inserting in for some reason.

If we are talking about an illness caused by trauma then I see no reason why it could not be permanently resolved within an altered state. This is the basis for most traditional shamanism of which I have some amount of experience, so I do not think this statement is accurate.

47 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

While in a state of God Consciousness you will not have any ailments. But on returning to your ego those illnesses may persist.

Yes while in an altered state then you might not IN THAT MOMENT perceive that you have any ailments, and yes those ailments might return if they were not resolved within the state as discussed previously in regard to trauma.

54 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It does give you access to Infinite inteligence and can help with clearing up problems in your life.  

"Infinite intelligence" would be a fairly bold claim, particularly coming from yourself. If what you are saying is that altered states can help one deal with problems, then sure - and again this would be an extension of the above trauma/psychological/emotional discussion.

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

If he clarified this already then we can put this to rest. 

He clarified that he misspoke when making this claim, but realistically that was blatantly fucking obvious to anyone - all I did was point this out. If you could just get over it that sometimes Leo makes mistakes, then this whole thing would have been laid to rest two years ago. As I have said many times - is it really that hard?

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

I was more interested in your other criticism

Which one? You seemed to get rather obsessed on the "healing" claims, but I am more than happy to unpack any other of my criticisms for you.

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

I think Leo is going to be making some changes and putting the deeper content behind a pay wall.  But we make it very clear here that spirituality is dangerous- and we have tons of disclaimers. If people want to get into spirituality we do tell them here that it is serious stuff and to know what they are getting themselves into.   And it's also why Leo is shutting down the solipsism threads because most people are not ready for this when they first step into spirituality.  They have to start at the basic level.

I think you are straw manning again. I have never been particularly critical about any of this stuff and think putting "serious stuff" behind a paywall is not a bad idea, because it requires some commitment from the user. I also think its commendable that Leo did what he thought was best in regard to the solipsism video, not necessarily because of the content (I haven't seen it...yet, and yes I do have a copy), but just that it shows some integrity to his own vision for his channel.

And of course I agree that beginners need to be onboarded at a controlled pace. This is true of any spiritual practice from shamanism to martial arts.

[Manusia]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I thought you meant at the higher levels of imagination where the dream is being formulated.

When you say about formula, I reminded about what conversation that me and my friends have. She and he have acess to know intuitively about this exact realtive reality/earth reality what the formula is. Did you ever found something that similiar to this?

[Inliytened1]

22 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

 

Firstly the quote makes no mention of enlightenment, .
 

Well, by discovering God I think he meant enlightenment or awakening.  

 

22 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

If we are talking about an illness caused by trauma then I see no reason why it could not be permanently resolved within an altered state. This is the basis for most traditional shamanism of which I have some amount of experience, so I do not think this statement is accurate.

 

Yes it certainly is possible.   But I'm just saying that enlightenment itself is not necessarily going to do that.  I know with my awakening however it greatly reduced symptoms of OCD which I suffer from.  

As for infinite inteligence- yes its a bold claim but your mind does open tremendously in an altered state as you may know. and you may gain additional insight and clarity into yourself that before had been closed off. 

Yeah so I guess what were some of your other criticisms?  

Oh, and yes I do know Leo makes mistakes.  We are all human here.