Leo featured in suicide cult article

[Ry4n]

10 hours ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They seem delusional to you because you fundamentally don't understand how spirituality works. So you lack a larger context for some of the radical things I have said. That which your mind cannot fathom, that which is beyond your direct experience, you call "delusional" because that's the only way your mind knows how to make sense of reality.

@Leo Gura

Ah I see. Its a good thing that you have all this background about me, and what I do and don't know. I imagine that's very handy that you can simply call upon that knowledge to make statements about people, you know - rather than dealing with the inconvenience of facts and reality. But hey, if you prefer to fantasize a backstory for me then knock yourself out - whatever helps.

Is this not an example of gaslighting?

[Ry4n]

10 hours ago, Loba said:

and you just gaslight people who try to determine where you are at... genuinely

Gaslighting is the forum's Modus Operandi. Take a look at Richard Lang's (and Douglas Harding's) style of teaching; everybody is seen as capable of knowing their true nature and nobody is viewed as a "teacher" above others, there is absolutely no hierarchy at all. Everyone is equal to the point that the one who sees this sees everybody else as "awake" too. This type of attitude makes embodiment of the truth natural, easy and simple. 

This hierarchical enforcement of who's the most awake is purely ego based and only isolates more people, as it will continue to do so in the future. 

More and more people are leaving for this very reason, and it's a pretty justified one.

This discussion seems pretty pointless at this stage though, nothing is going to change and young, impressionable depressed teenagers are going to continue to come to these spaces only to be confused, gaslit and left off worse than when they came, with no one taking responsibility for it. 

Opposing views about spirituality simply aren't respected on this forum, and is usually what opens the floodgates to more gaslighting, thus reinforcing group think as Adeptus has mentioned. Dogmatism in action. 

9 hours ago, Jahmaine said:

we have the mini Leo’s on here that can’t think for themselves and brainlessly defend him

Yep, most likely the depressed teenagers I'm talking about. 

I would know because I was one of them!!! 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Ry4n

[RMQualtrough]

31 minutes ago, Ry4n said:

Take a look at Richard Lang's (and Douglas Harding's) style of teaching; everybody is seen as capable of knowing their true nature and nobody is viewed as a "teacher" above others, there is absolutely no hierarchy at all. Everyone is equal to the point that the one who sees this sees everybody else as "awake" too. This type of attitude makes embodiment of the truth natural, easy and simple. 

This hierarchical enforcement of who's the most awake is purely ego based and only isolates more people, as it will continue to do so in the future.

That would be the only accurate view, also.

No matter how "awakened" a person is, once the person is gone (which is necessary in total ego dissolution of course) what is left is completely identical to everyone and everything else.

Anyone hoping that they will do a bunch of "spiritual" shit in this life and somehow receive a reward upon their death for doing so, is sorely mistaken indeed. Lmao.

The #1 takeaway for me was always that. And that I am no more important than a single grain of sand, and also no less important than an entire Solar System.

[Ry4n]

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

The #1 takeaway for me was always that. And that I am no more important than a single grain of sand, and also no less important than an entire Solar System.

I like it

[RMQualtrough]

27 minutes ago, Ry4n said:

I like it

Yeah, there's no other way it could ever be if a person is identifying entirely with the entire unit. You can only ever identify anything as better or worse from a position of splitting the singular unit into this and that. Without a this and a that, there's no comparisons to be drawn.

Hence the life of a bacteria is as important as your entire life, is as important as the entire universe.

My experience of this changed my view on reality permanently for sure.

[Dumuzzi]

A humble suggestion:

Perhaps mixing spirituality with psychedelics is not a great idea after all.

Also, this place seems to attract a lot of desperate, suicidal youth. Some will undoubtedly off themselves, no matter what we might try to do about it. On the other hand, the unique vulnerability of many of the types of people that visit here should be taken into consideration when dishing out advice.

In other words, are we sure, that giving generic advice is really all that useful if we don't know the background of the person that heeds it?

There is also a karmic load that attaches itself to handing out spiritual advice without discernment. I wonder if Leo may have attracted a much larger karmic load by making his videos and courses than he might realise?

I don't know the answer to any of the above questions and dilemmas, but they are worth pondering. I should note that I have also been guilty of giving out indiscriminate advice to all and sundry before and I am beginning to regret it. Who knows how much harm I might have caused that way, without intending it?

The karmic load would still be attached to my actions, no matter how good my intentions may have been. I think there is a reason that in times gone, teachers guided their students by getting to know them personally, often over many years. This element seems to be completely missing in the way we interact with each other over the internet and that might very well be detrimental. 

[Juan]

@Jahmaine Ok.??

[History]

This was known for years outside of this forum. This article brings old news to the mainstream, that's it.

Everybody knows that Leo is pushing people to off themselves. He even said it himself that if he wanted he could have 100's of bodies by now. But he does have 100's of bodies, they're just not tied to him. Tons of people died of 5-meO-DMT and other hardcore drugs he pushes in his videos.

Not to mention his nihilistic approach and the hyper-glorification of death.

Leo kills through videos, he's a new-age serial killer.

[Thought Art]

27 minutes ago, History said:

This was known for years outside of this forum. This article brings old news to the mainstream, that's it.

Everybody knows that Leo is pushing people to off themselves. He even said it himself that if he wanted he could have 100's of bodies by now. But he does have 100's of bodies, they're just not tied to him. Tons of people died of 5-meO-DMT and other hardcore drugs he pushes in his videos.

Not to mention his nihilistic approach and the hyper-glorification of death.

Leo kills through videos, he's a new-age serial killer.

? There’s only 2 reported deaths from 5meo…  important not to lie about things when there is hard data out there. 

Leo taught me to honour my life lol 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Thought Art

[mandyjw]

On 3/5/2022 at 10:33 PM, Leo Gura said:

That's actually not the definition of a cult. Go read the books on my book list about what really defines a cult. Or watch my video: Cult Psychology - Part 1 where I give an exhaustive definition.

Don't go by the dictionary and accept commonly used definition, watch my video on cults where I educate MY community about what a cult is. 

Uhmm.... 

 

Uhmmm...

Uhmmm...

Red flag much? 

[Thought Art]

13 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Don't go by the dictionary and accept commonly used definition, watch my video on cults where I educate MY community about what a cult is. 

Uhmm.... 

 

Uhmmm...

Uhmmm...

Red flag much? 

Lol true

Besides Leo’s video it would be worthwhile reading books by cult experts 

[mandyjw]

@Thought Art Leo is in the business of selling information and knowledge, which he does by trying to make people feel like they are inept idiots in need of it. It's the same pattern again and again. 

What's funny is that enlightenment is NOT knowledge. Once misunderstanding is seen to be misunderstanding, it's no longer misunderstanding. There is no special knowledge to be obtained, bought or sold. You can sell someone information about how to fix something, but you can't sell them information on how to fix what isn't broken. Or maybe you CAN but it won't result in any improvement. 

 

[Gesundheit2]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

@Thought Art Leo is in the business of selling information and knowledge, which he does by trying to make people feel like they are inept idiots in need of it. It's the same pattern again and again. 

That's the universal definition of teaching. And it's not exclusive to Leo. We learn from those who are farther down the path, whichever path it might be. It's how we connect and develop.

Learning is a natural instinct. Even if you don't deliberately teach your children, they will try to copy you. And if they don't copy you, they will copy someone/something else.

Quote

What's funny is that enlightenment is NOT knowledge. Once misunderstanding is seen to be misunderstanding, it's no longer misunderstanding. There is no special knowledge to be obtained, bought or sold. You can sell someone information about how to fix something, but you can't sell them information on how to fix what isn't broken. Or maybe you CAN but it won't result in any improvement.

Lol. Are you for real, Mandy? Cuz you seem to be doing exactly the same thing you're denouncing.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[zurew]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

Don't go by the dictionary and accept commonly used definition, watch my video on cults where I educate MY community about what a cult is. 

Uhmm.... 

 

Uhmmm...

Uhmmm...

Red flag much? 

So according to the definition you use, it seems like actualized.org is a cult. What has to be changed for actualized.org to not be a cult anymore? Please be specific about it, the more specific the critiques are, the better.

[Inliytened1]

On 3/6/2022 at 9:15 AM, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

@Leo Gura 



I have been ultra-specific about the things you have said I take issue with, in all cases I have provided quotes straight from the horses mouth of you actually saying them, and none of them was related to any particular teaching. In reality what these criticisms were leveled at was your delusional utterances around abilities you gained from taking 5 MEO DMT, and those criticisms have held up AMAZINGLY well.

 

Just like you state that Leo cannot know your own subjective spiritual experiences - by the same token you cannot know his.  So if you had mystical experiences in the past you would also know it is premature to assume that during is DMT trip he did not become fully God and have these abilities.   This is why you we felt your criticisms came more from a lack of understanding of spirituality and what is possible.  The criticisms seemed rather to make a mockery of things rather than to question it objectively.  This is probably why Leo doesn't take you as a serious critic.    Anyone who had had mystical experiences and come back and talked to "normies" about them is normally greeted with "your insane! Or you sound like a prophet!"  I know from direct experience

 

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

@Thought Art Leo is in the business of selling information and knowledge, which he does by trying to make people feel like they are inept idiots in need of it. It's the same pattern again and again. 

What's funny is that enlightenment is NOT knowledge. Once misunderstanding is seen to be misunderstanding, it's no longer misunderstanding. There is no special knowledge to be obtained, bought or sold. You can sell someone information about how to fix something, but you can't sell them information on how to fix what isn't broken. Or maybe you CAN but it won't result in any improvement. 

 

Well, that’s how you interpret it. I personally feel empowered by what he’s taught me. 
 

I mean… humans do require education.
 

Not knowing, or recognizing how little you know is a sign of wisdom also. 

he didn’t force anyone to watch his videos ahah… I personally have fun with the work though it’s very challenging and confusing at times. It’s been a wild ride!
 

Yeah, and the meditation, psychedelics , yoga practices etc are practices that go beyond “knowledge” or… this sort of intellectual knowledge commonly used in westerns knowing. Very grateful for these teachings as they lead me to Qigong which has helped me generate an inner sweetness and helped me purge a lot of my anger and chronic pain. 
 

See, I learn from Leo but plenty of other sources. I’ll outgrow his work, but it’s a booster or a really good map IMO. Of course limited. 
 

…He does know a lot of things you don’t know Mandy. Be humble. 
 

we all know things that others don’t. 

I also just think it’s false that nothings broken for a lot of people.  I mean just look around you. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Just like you state that Leo cannot know your own subjective spiritual experiences - by the same token you cannot know his.  So if you had mystical experiences in the past you would also know it is premature to assume that during is DMT trip he did not become fully God and have these abilities.   This is why you we felt your criticisms came more from a lack of understanding of spirituality and what is possible.  The criticisms seemed rather to make a mockery of things rather than to question it objectively.  This is probably why Leo doesn't take you as a serious critic.    Anyone who had had mystical experiences and come back and talked to "normies" about them is normally greeted with "your insane! Or you sound like a prophet!"  I know from direct experience

 

Nah, he is rightfully skeptics. We all should be. Leo is in the trenches of his work and will be wrong sometimes right sometimes.

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Nah, he is rightfully skeptics. We all should be. Leo is in the trenches of his work and will be wrong sometimes right sometimes.

Yes it is fine to be skeptic.  This work is so radical that one should expect a decent amoint of criticism...It's just that @AdeptusPsychonauticaseems a bit hypocritical here.  He claims Leo cannot know his own subjective experiences but then assumed Leo's subjective experience was delusional.   You see? 

He is not a rationalist critic or materialist, or so he claims.  He is open to other paradigms.

[zurew]

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Nah, he is rightfully skeptics. We all should be. Leo is in the trenches of his work and will be wrong sometimes right sometimes.

What's hard here is that, for example in an academic field there are commonly agreed upon standards and you need to get through those first to be able to test you hypothesis and ideas. But in the spiritual field you can't assume any standards so all the critique that you recieve can be dismissed rightfully or not rightfully. So how would a good critique would even look like, i don't know, its very hard and tricky in my opinion.

Becuase you can always say, that you haven't got there yet. Or that you can test in on your own. There are a lot of spiritual teachers out there, and it doesn't seem like that there is an agreement everywhere and in every direction.

So basically because no one can hold anyone accountable, anyone can claim anything and basically no one can attack anyone's ideas about anything in the spiritual field. And basically anything can be dismissed according to that logic. Basically you can't ground spirituality in anything, because it is the ground itself. I think the main problem lies here.

Edited March 8, 2022 by zurew

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, zurew said:

What's hard here is that, for example in an acadamic field their are commonly agreed upon standards and you need to get through those first to be able to test you hypothesis and ideas. But in the spiritual field you can't assume any standards so all the critique that you recieve can be dismissed rightfully or not rightfully. So how would a good critique would even look like, i don't know, its very hard and tricky in my opinion.

 

That's why Leo prefers to speak with more open minded critics such as Curt.  With spirituality you have to be open to anything.  A materialistic critic is just going to shut you down as a crazy person so it's almost futile to explain thi gs to them.  You can spend some time on it but it may not be worth it to you.  Or at least they would have to be willing to hear your POV