Leo featured in suicide cult article

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Someone like Adeptus simply doesn't like the teachings, therefore his mind will find whatever excuse to demonize the teachings. The fundamental dishonesty of many Actualized.org critics is that they simply don't like teachings yet they must engage in mental gymnastics and personal attacks to rationalize it in their minds, rather than just being honest and admitting the truth: They just don't like the teachings.

@Leo Gura 

Hi Leo, just out of curiosity which of your "teachings" is it you think I don't like?

I have been ultra-specific about the things you have said I take issue with, in all cases I have provided quotes straight from the horses mouth of you actually saying them, and none of them was related to any particular teaching. In reality what these criticisms were leveled at was your delusional utterances around abilities you gained from taking 5 MEO DMT, and those criticisms have held up AMAZINGLY well.

Since you bring up the topic of mental gymnastics then I would invite you to look in the mirror. Rather than labeling those you disagree with as trolls, and fantasizing backstories about how they hate the teachings, wouldn't it just be easier and more courageous to simply acknowledge that on occasion you have said some things you shouldn't? That maybe there actually has been some really toxic shitty behaviour on these forums, and that when people bring these issues up then maybe they have a point? Doesn't that sound like a more mature approach than just having a tantrum and calling people trolls?

Sure, I get that its easier to invent some grandiose narrative about someone who "HATES THE TEACHINGS!!!", but I think we both know that's complete bollocks don't we. Its really simple - you said some shit, you got called out on it, and you don't like that. No overarching story line of hate required. 

So yeah - mental gymnastics and personal attacks, that's you in a nutshell mate ?. 

I can, and have, backed up EVERY SINGLE criticism I make, whereas you just pull labels like "troll" and "hate" out of your arse because (when it comes to these criticisms) you do not have a logical or rational leg to stand on. I get that its an easier way of dealing with things, but its really fucking lazy, and certainly not what I would expect from such a well integrated, radically open minded, truth-seeker like you ?

Edited March 6, 2022 by AdeptusPsychonautica

[Husseinisdoingfine]

@AdeptusPsychonautica HE’S BACK!

HOLY SHIT, ITS THE YOUTUBER! FEATURE ME /THIS COMMENT IN A VIDEO!

[Husseinisdoingfine]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You have to decide what works for you. And if something is not working for you, stop consuming it.

I’ve had this dilemma personally. You keep hyping Actualized.org to be the best school, but I don’t think the videos are working for me. I want stopped watching the videos and have resorted to literature, but I feel as if I’m missing out.

[Leo Gura]

56 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

In reality what these criticisms were leveled at was your delusional utterances around abilities you gained from taking 5 MEO DMT, and those criticisms have held up AMAZINGLY well.

They seem delusional to you because you fundamentally don't understand how spirituality works. So you lack a larger context for some of the radical things I have said. That which your mind cannot fathom, that which is beyond your direct experience, you call "delusional" because that's the only way your mind knows how to make sense of reality.

You also are not taking into account the raw nature of my awakening reports. Things are reported as they occurred for me without polishing them up for critics and the spiritually clueless. There is a difference between a formal teaching vs a report of profound awakenings happening as I go through the process and describe the process as it feels and occurs for me while in the midst of it. It's the difference between talking about WW2 as a historian in a university vs being in the front lines of WW2 with bombs falling on your head. You have taken some of my most radical awakenings and experiments in consciousness -- which you have no intellectual understanding of -- and made a mockery of them.

I have watched your criticisms of my work, and it is based on some basic misunderstandings of how spirituality works.

Anyways, the sum total body of my work speaks for itself. I feel no need to justify or defend it.

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That maybe there actually has been some really toxic shitty behaviour on these forums

Not really. The behavior on this forum is not out of line for how online forums work, or for how the internet as a whole works.

We do a lot of moderation to stop toxic behavior here.

41 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

I’ve had this dilemma personally. You keep hyping Actualized.org to be the best school, but I don’t think the videos are working for me. I want stopped watching the videos and have resorted to literature, but I feel as if I’m missing out.

You have to learn to make your own decisions in life. I am not the CEO of your life, you are. And until you start taking responsibility for being the CEO of your life you will continue to suffer not just at my hands but the hands of many other humans who you give your authority away to.

The thing is, you don't want to take this responsibility. You want someone like me to tell you what to do in life. So you can just paint by numbers. Well... that's not how a good life is created.

I would tell you to go walk off a cliff -- just so you stop following my words blindly -- but I'm afraid you might take me seriously.

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They seem delusional to you because you fundamentally don't understand how spirituality works. So you lack a larger context for some of the radical things I have said. That which your mind cannot fathom, that which is beyond your direct experience, you call "delusional" because that's the only way your mind knows how to make sense of reality.

@Leo Gura

Ah I see. Its a good thing that you have all this background about me, and what I do and don't know. I imagine that's very handy that you can simply call upon that knowledge to make statements about people, you know - rather than dealing with the inconvenience of facts and reality. But hey, if you prefer to fantasize a backstory for me then knock yourself out - whatever helps.
 

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You also are not taking into account the raw nature of my trip reports. Things are reported as they occurred for me without polishing them up for critics and the spiritually clueless. There is a difference between a formal teaching vs a report of profound awakenings happening as I go through the process and describe the process as it feels and occurs for me while in the midst of it.

I do, I have, we have talked about this before, and there is a world of difference between talking about a trip report like experience which is "in the moment", and the sort of stuff I criticised you for. Now if that REALLY is your answer, then you could simply have said so 2 years ago and the topic would have ended there.

"Hi everyone its Leo! I recently made a video where I (paraphrasing) talked about being the most enlightened being who has existed in the history of this planet, and that I had been given special abilities by the universe which can cure all diseases and ailments, along with other paranormal abilities. Man I was really high, I got a bit lost in my own ego, and none of that stuff was intended to be taken literally. Apologies for the mixed messages - lets get back to the real work!"

Wouldn't that have worked much better at defusing critics like me rather than this sulky knee-jerk reaction of "[inset name here] is a stupid troll who understands nothing"? I mean if you are acknowledging that these statements you made are just "in the moment" utterances then I have no problem with that at all, and if that's the case then why so defensive about it?

Its almost like your ego (and its followers) cannot handle actual criticism ?

Just to be transparent I think its plainly obvious that the "I'm leaving" video which I often reference as a source was not intended as an "in the moment" psychedelic process type video. Its like watching a manifesto of someone making (what they believe) is objective facts, peppered throughout with statements validating exactly that. I honestly think you would be better off just disowning such content in a manner like I gave above, acknowledging that the criticism was indeed justified, and putting it behind you - rather than dragging it on by insisting upon there being some hate campaign against you by malicious trolls.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

@Leo Gura

Ah I see. Its a good thing that you have all this background about me, and what I do and don't know. I imagine that's very handy that you can simply call upon that knowledge to make statements about people, you know - rather than dealing with the inconvenience of facts and reality. But hey, if you prefer to fantasize a backstory for me then knock yourself out - whatever helps.

I can easily tell from your talking and your own trip reports your level of consciousness and understanding of spiritual truths, or lack thereof.

So I don't need your life story.

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I do, I have, we have talked about this before, and there is a world of difference between talking about a trip report like experience which is "in the moment", and the sort of stuff I criticised you for. Now if that REALLY is your answer, then you could simply have said so 2 years ago and the topic would have ended there.

"Hi everyone its Leo! I recently made a video where I (paraphrasing) talked about being the most enlightened being who has existed in the history of this planet, and that I had been given special abilities by the universe which can cure all diseases and ailments, along with other paranormal abilities. Man I was really high, I got a bit lost in my own ego, and none of that stuff was intended to be taken literally. Apologies for the mixed messages - lets get back to the real work!"

Wouldn't that have worked much better at defusing critics like me rather than this sulky knee-jerk reaction of "[inset name here] is a stupid troll who understands nothing"? I mean if you are acknowledging that these statements you made are just "in the moment" utterances then I have no problem with that at all, and if that's the case then why so defensive about it?

It's not so simple. They were not just in the moment utterances. Profound truths were communicated to you which went over your head because you are more interested in critique and nitpicking than understanding how consciousness works.

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 rather than dragging it on by insisting upon there being some hate campaign against you by malicious trolls.

You're not a malicious troll. You just don't understand the depth to which consciousness goes.

[Jahmaine]

@Leo Gura why don’t you and @AdeptusPsychonautica just finally have a conversation with each other on video, everything can be addressed and you two can have a good conversation, can clear up things on both sides, genuinely as someone that’s observed you both, I reckon a real conversation from you two would be perhaps deeper and better for the community that it might first appear, your conversation would go beyond just criticisms. If you can spend 12 hours on TOE, you can give at least 1-3 for Adeptus, obviously you needn’t do anything and you can say it’s a waste of time and you’re too busy etc etc, but you’re clearly not too busy when you got time to be on here all day and doing back and fourths with people. Especially if you was interested in really doubling down your teachings like you say, if you really think Adeptus is misunderstanding, you’re wise enough to know he’s not alone, rather than hand waving it away and saying go watch this this and this first, it could be more beneficial to speak at the level you’re at now in a real time conversation, as you would if you was teaching people in person, even after that you could make a point and then explain if a more in depth explanation is needed then they can check out your video. It’s each to their own, but I really do think it would be of benefit, especially if you want to really make your points clear, show that’s it air tight, show that you know what you’re talking about and show that you can meet someone halfway (from your point of view) to aid them in a better understanding of yourself. If you think that you’re just giving time to a troll and you don’t want to, then this could be a tester, coz it’s not just any “troll” - he’s not talking in an illogical manner, he is be respectful, he is actually giving you a lot of leeway and is clearly open to understanding, when really and truly, your so called trolls, could really use your own approach and be very direct and blunt with you, to which you’d obviously just hand wave it away again. 
Just my view, but in the spirit of an actual debate and for the purpose of helping the community and showing where all other teachers aren’t or haven’t reached levels you have (by your own admission), why not go that extra step for your fellow humanity? Coz as much as you say you don’t care or whatever else, it’s this behaviour of avoidance and seemingly denial that will get you and this community here labelled as just an echo chamber and you being a gate keeper with all the answers that dare not be challenged, does the highest levels of awakening instruct you to do that? Just to denounce and dismiss soo called trolls or critiques? Genuine question. Look what it took for you to address Connor Murphy as an example. 
perosnally I just think that if you really had reached such levels you claims, you would be more than willing to address things, if anything you’d seek it out, coz truth comes out on top every time, so you got nothing to worry about, truth never changes. Only way I can see you sidestepping this really Is at a later point in life admitting (and I’m not saying you haven’t already) that you may have reached such levels, but clearly have no embodied it - you can see the fear and anxiety in your blogs, look at your own facial expressions and body language. Anyway, nothing personal just to clarify, but I really do feel a conversation between you two would be of great value. Give it some genuine consideration.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Jahmaine

[ZenSwift]

So much mentioning about talk therapy in this thread, what about EMDR therapy, NLP, or Hypnotherapy? 

EMDR is super powerful if you have an actually competent therapist that knows what they're doing.

 

Just wanted to drop this thought here. 

[Loba]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

They seem delusional to you because you fundamentally don't understand how spirituality works. So you lack a larger context for some of the radical things I have said. That which your mind cannot fathom, that which is beyond your direct experience, you call "delusional" because that's the only way your mind knows how to make sense of reality.

What about when you do this to your followers who have had awakenings that you have not had yet?  You think you're the arbiter of determining that stuff over the internet with such a small amount of information generally that people give you.
And when someone contradicts you, you demote them or try to fluff it off like you know better than they do while simultaneously telling us to do our own research?  And what if it goes against your agenda?  What then?
I've seen you add stuff, go back on stuff, ect, you're still learning, just like we are don't forget that dude.

I don't think you have experienced the highest truths; I think that if you had, it would of changed you in a way that would be reflective in how you address your audience here; and even in that video that you took down - I can tell that you just don't... respect people in some ways.

Like, you preach love, but can't even love your fellow man unless you bypass with some of that universal crap.  You can't love at the level of just normal everyday people, and then at other times claim that you have this great love within you...

You can't have awakenings just on your own, even...

Without the use of an aid.

And when teachers mention that people come back from these experiences and paint them with their level of understanding, and I see some of the comments that you make - I can 'tell' that you're not genuinely integrating these experiences.  You seem to have a distrust of other teachers and their methods because you think you have figured it all out.  I would legitimately suggest stopping the psychedelic use altogether and integrating what you already 'know'... supposedly... just for everyday use.  Learn to love like a normie.

Humility is the name of the game if you want to wake up without using nonsense substances.  You're a student.  And will be for life.  You've overfocused on this, at the detriment of other areas, such as treating your followers with empathy, respect, understanding, ect.

That's one of the reasons why you have people making these articles and videos about you, is because your actions don't match up with your supposed level of awakening, and you just gaslight people who try to determine where you are at... genuinely.  I think people tend to assume they are farther along than they really are, and I don't think that you are an exception to this rule.  I've been following you for a long time, and way back when, you were more genuine - even if you weren't more awake - this stuff... how to explain...

Mmmph... you don't treat your friends very nicely.  When their paths are different from yours, or you determine yourself more "awake" then them - you don't treat their teachings with respect.

I'm not an idiot, I can see when someone's behaviour is not in line with what they say...

You have to learn to treat your followers with more respect, instead of assuming you know best.  You don't dude.  They do.  Each of your followers has within them everything they need to learn to wake up - they just need to learn to trust themselves and to follow their compass - their heart, their truth - they don't need to be doing drugs to get there, this is not true.

That said, I do respect your work and I respect you, and don't wish for anything unfortunate to happen - and so... you must... take these words with some degree of seriousness, and do your best to relate to people where they are at... instead of telling other people to do that and then not doing it yourself.

I genuinely suggest talk therapy with someone who is on your level, that you can trust - because there are shadows that are clear from my end that you could work on in that setting - depth psychology - and that could transmute some of this that I've discussed.  Listen to your students a bit more - we aren't "normies"; we're just people... on  the same path trying to find answers to life because that's what life is about.

All the best.

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I can easily tell from your talking and your own trip reports your level of consciousness and understanding of spiritual truths, or lack thereof.

So I don't need your life story.

You certainly don't need my life story, you simply need to deal with criticism on its own MERIT rather than inventing disingenuous deflections, like saying anyone who disagrees with you is a troll, stupid, unspiritual, or whatever disingenuous deflection with no factual basis you find easiest when your ego gets bruised.

Needless to say I don't think you can "easily tell" at all Leo. I think you actually have IMMENSE difficulty seeing outside of your own perspective, as evidenced by your insistence on what is or isn't spirituality, and your frequent use of it to inflate yourself. Let me give you a word of advice - if you are truly trying to be a spiritual teacher then this kind of pretentious high horse nonsense is beneath you. 
 

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It's not so simple. They were not just in the moment utterances. Profound truths were communicated to you which went over your head because you are more interested in critique and nitpicking than understanding how consciousness works.

I think it is that simple and hey, you are a smart guy. It would be relatively simple to to pick out the profound truths and acknowledge the delusional missteps, and take the criticism on the chin.

Its a poor deflection for you to invent what did or did not go over my head - because you have no idea what my subjective experience of your content was. Its entirely possible that I understood every word in the exact manner you intended it, and that there is still room there for us to disagree. Perhaps (and work with me here) some of what you said was just wrong and thus worthy of criticism? If we remove the idea that you are an infallible super being then this seems fairly plausible.  

Yes I am indeed interested in critiquing psychedelic/spiritual culture (as are you) and if you throw something into the public square for discussion then surely you want people to engage with it, or is that only allowed if I wholeheartedly agree with it? I think the term for that is an echo chamber, and the general consensus is that those are bad.

As for my interest in understanding consciousness, well I see we are once again dipping into your omniscient knowledge of ME - which as previously stated is simply lazy.

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You're not a malicious troll

Well I'm glad we agree on that, it took you long enough ?. Feel free to correct all your previous incorrect statements to this effect.

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You just don't understand the depth to which consciousness goes.

And neither do you - see we have more in common than you think ?

[Juan]

@Jahmaine I don’t think there should be a need to be recorded, in my eyes that is like for entertainment purposes depending the intentions, if you want to educate people, leave a lesson, etc.

If I have a problem with my neighbor then I’ll just go and talk to him personally. In this case sure they are far away from each other so maybe I’ll try to chat first, if it seems limited for us to understand each other then we’ll talk by phone.

Using the Connor situation for example, they talked each other by phone and that’s it, the forum seems to be more calmed after that and so both of them I assume, this could happen here too. For @Leo Gura @AdeptusPsychonautica, I’ll suggest to have a call each other if you feel like, no need to be recorded. You have nothing to lose except well, spend some minutes talking each other and try to find a common ground, that’d be my compassionate move, much love for you both.❤️???

Edited March 6, 2022 by Juan

[Thought Art]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Talk therapy requires training and licensing.

If anything I would criticize psychiatrists more because mostly what they do is over-prescribe shitty medication which is just a form of bypassing.

Some things medication can help with.

 

I’ve noticed this. I had a therapist and when I look at it she basically just listened the whole time, (which was really helpful honestly) and gave a few pointers and cognitive  behaviour worksheets.

But, when I was ambivalent about my emotions (feeling mixed emotions about failing an exam) she was like “you need medication” because I was feeling Mixed emotions. Now, I’m not anti medication but the challenges I was facing at that time were highly contextual. She was just being lazy. It’s like she sent me all this stuff on cognitive behaviour but she herself knew none of it and just lazyily thinks a medication will help me. Bla,

The human mind is so complex. I forgive people. 

I will still use talk therapy as I find it helpful but… as a therapist you need to be well educated and not be lazily prescribing medication. There’s nothing unhealthy about ambivalent reactions. Or, in my case It didn’t mean I was in need of medication.

Especially when I am doing cognitive behavioural work… there’s going to be mixed emotions…. Because the old cognitive distortions of negative way of thinking it meeting the conscious attempt at reprogramming the mind. 
 

Anyway, it was unfortunate. 
 

But overall it helped me a lot. 
 

Luckily, now with my Qigong, journaling, meditation routine and new job and beginning my career as a Qigong teacher I feel grounded and am doing really well. 
 

Still things to straighten out but things are good. ? Thank God for the life purpose course. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Thought Art

[Jahmaine]

9 minutes ago, Juan said:

@Jahmaine I don’t think there should be a need to be recorded, in my eyes that is like for entertainment purposes depending the intentions, if you want to educate people, leave a lesson, etc.

If I have a problem with my neighbor then I’ll just go and talk to him personally. In this case sure they are far away from each other so maybe I’ll try to chat first, if it seems limited for us to understand each other then we’ll talk by phone.

Using the Connor situation as es example, they talked each other by phone and that’s it, the forum seems to be more calmed after that and so both of them I assume, this could happen here too. For @Leo Gura @AdeptusPsychonautica, I’ll suggest to have a call each other if you feel like, no need to be recorded. You have nothing to lose except well, spend some minutes talking each other and try to find a common ground, that’d be my compassionate move, much love for you both.❤️???

Yeah I hear what you’re saying, but personally like I said in my message I think it’ll be of great value to the community as a whole, because Adeptus isn’t the only one thinking the stuff he’s saying; when things become black and white, we have the mini Leo’s on here that can’t think for themselves and brainlessly defend him and the other side could just recklessly criticise him without any rationale or understanding; so in the interest of aiding everyone I reckon it would be better in a video, they don’t need a phone call, this isn’t going to turn into some YouTube boxing. 
It’s just funny coz every time I put Leo like this he never responds and because he doesn’t it just leaves me to come to my own conclusions and in this case, as well as others, it’s because he can’t respond, he has nothing to say really that won’t make him look silly. Or he’s just a straight up coward. Can’t handle the heat and it’s actually quite shocking considering the audacity of which he carries himself sometimes, even if he is correct sometimes. He cares soo much about truth that he can’t be honest with himself. It’s typical of people like that; you know he’d be a good politician because he follows the same mentality- “if you can’t win the debate, don’t have it” - and he talks about truth, what a joker.

I recommend he goes back watches his own video about life unfolding in phases and chapters - he ain’t getting through this one until he finally admits or deals with critiques - that’s why he’s stuck in this limbo that he’s in, so blatantly; how you going to make a course for the “real serious” seekers when you can’t even be honest with yourself. But as usual hes got nothing to say; change the subject, don’t wanna talk about it, pretend he’s too busy and whatever else he needs to tell himself to sleep at night, it’s actually an absolute joke and it would actually be funny if the platform and ramifications of it wasn’t so big, because directly and indirectly he’s teaching his followers to do the same and those not streetwise enough literally do the exact same, this forum has endless examples of it; but what’s his response to that “ its just like every other forum” ; disappointing doesn’t even describe that lack of responsibility and denial of integrity.

[Leo Gura]

@AdeptusPsychonautica Good luck with your work. My work stands on its own. I am happy to have people compare my work with your work and discover for themselves which gives them a deeper understanding of consciousness.

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

@Leo Gura

Likewise, but I don't think it needs to be so binary. There is a a wider discourse being played out here that would benefit from ideas being challenged, and people talking to each other, and so with that in mind I will continue doing what I do - and yes that does mean that one day I may be talking about you again. Take it as a compliment that someone is engaging with what your ideas, even if they are critical of them.

Sincerely though Leo, I wish you well with your work.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You have to learn to make your own decisions in life. I am not the CEO of your life, you are. And until you start taking responsibility for being the CEO of your life you will continue to suffer not just at my hands but the hands of many other humans who you give your authority away to.

The thing is, you don't want to take this responsibility. You want someone like me to tell you what to do in life. So you can just paint by numbers. Well... that's not how a good life is created.

I would tell you to go walk off a cliff -- just so you stop following my words blindly -- but I'm afraid you might take me seriously.

THANK YOU!

[blankisomeone]

On 3/3/2022 at 6:31 PM, catcat69123 said:

Most of you guys haven't realized you were raised up in a cult, it hasn't hit you, everything you do and value is defined by others and you are enslaved into seeking validation from other people in an echo chamber you can't even escape on the internet, you are merely a product of conditoning - at least what you seperate as other cults and communes people looked a bit happier 

would you rather be where you are or here?

 

oh god i'd much rather lie depressed in bed for the rest of my life

[Javfly33]

20 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Actually it is not the psychedelic but what the psychedelic can trigger  - awakening - that can actually alleviate the illness.  I know this because my awakening completely alleviated OCD.    Unfortunately, just like western medicine, it is not a permanent cure.  Because eventually the more you sink back into the dream and your ego, what came with your ego will return.   But it is more powerful than meds if indeed it awakens you.  (I've taken meds so I am speaking from experience) And can alleviate symptoms for years.

Absolutely agree Buddy. My first lsd trip healed my depression/anxiety thought loops, but since I was 3-4 years since doing It again It came back as always. So It seems regular use of moderate doses of psychs + meditation its the way to go to not go completely insane by the damn ego structure 

[Prakhar]

Whether it is Leo, Osho, Bentinho, or any other target, people will keep on talking/distorting/lying/assuming/pretending/projecting in the name of their "truth". The problem is that most people are not willing to listen, understand and see things from all perspectives to find the closest version of the truth that a just human mind can perceive.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Prakhar

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@AdeptusPsychonautica Good luck with your work. My work stands on its own. I am happy to have people compare my work with your work and discover for themselves which gives them a deeper understanding of consciousness.

Well said.