Forum suggestion: crackdown on disrespect

[John Paul]

Criticizing ideas with logic/perspective is okay; give warning points for people implying that the other person is incapable of thinking (they are dumb). if you want to point out what someone isn't considering, just say "when you say _____ i think you aren't considering _______" or something...  and if you think the person is being stubborn, lazy, or ideological.. these are just judgments of the person's character and not their thoughts..so i think it's best to not post at all. 

if there is any thing that doesn't belong on a conscious forum it's cruelty even in subtle forms.

 

[JosephKnecht]

...when you say criticizing ideas with logic/perspective is ok, I think you aren't considering that you can't transcend logic/perspective through your logic/perspective.  

Hitting you with a stick may wake you up. 

 

[John Paul]

@JosephKnecht hitting you with a stick may hurt you. hit the idea with a stick, not the person

[BlueOak]

Well when we give or see a comment like that, its a way of seeing it in ourselves or the other.

The arguments you see are huge signs of things to learn or grow from. Its the most direct, highlighted way to grow if someone is willing. Its never nice and doesn't feel good but those feelings get the mind to focus on why.

[John Paul]

@BlueOak i disagree, it's easy to tell someone why they are wrong and be nice at the same time if that is something you hold firmly in your mind

[happyhappy]

2 minutes ago, John Paul said:

@BlueOak i disagree, it's easy to tell someone why they are wrong and be nice at the same time if that is something you hold firmly in your mind

yup...very true! but what basis would we use to draw lines between a legit disagreement vs. a personally opined baseless criticism

[BlueOak]

5 minutes ago, John Paul said:

@BlueOak i disagree, it's easy to tell someone why they are wrong and be nice at the same time if that is something you hold firmly in your mind

@John Paul

Can be easy and I appreciate the prespective being reflected to me that I need to work on it.

It depends on many factors. Trauma, proximity to what's being said, ego identification with the topic, how close someone is to reality, upbring, peer group etc

I'm sorry for this next line: In some ways you are discussing character or manners in your post above, while asking people not to.

[John Paul]

@BlueOak in that case you could say: I think from an outside perspective you're coming off as rude when you say "_______" because it is implying that the person you are responding to is _______dumb

@happyhappy idk like the little stuff like i can't give a good example tbh maybe someone else could 

and maybe guessing what someones thinking.. "are you thinking _____?, there isn't much evidence to support this, can you say any direct experiences?"

idk.. maybe someone else can chime in for examples and boundaries 

Edited March 2, 2022 by John Paul

[SavourTime]

I do mostly agree with what you are saying. We have some very vulnerable people on here and we could do with avoiding making their problems any worse. But I'm not sure if this is really something that can be turned into a rule or be enforced? What we could do is support or defend people more and call out people who might be coming across as more harsh than they need to be. But if/when people need to be put in their place, that's good too. It's a fine line between those two tbh.

[flowboy]

2 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

Hitting you with a stick may wake you up. 

Can you describe some examples where this helped you? Especially when a stranger did it?

I can understand that when a respected teacher does it, it makes someone think and put in the effort to understand why, and wake up.

But that's predicated upon looking up to the holder of the stick.

If a stranger who holds no special credits in the hittee's perspective, does this, I doubt there would be contemplation as a result of it. Rather defensiveness and derailment.

The trap is that the ego likes to imagine itself in the position of the teacher with extra respect credits already built up. So that it can say anything and people will consider it deeply.

[BlueOak]

2 hours ago, flowboy said:

Can you describe some examples where this helped you? Especially when a stranger did it?

First it takes a perspective shift. Second understand I cannot recount your consciousness to you, how you think, act, reason and what you see are entirely unique to you. You might not describe things as I do, you might not reason as I do, and you certainly won't relate X to Y as I do.

The perspective shift is: Everyone is a teacher. You are reflecting aspects of yourself back to yourself with every interaction, everyday of your life. Sometimes these aspects are lies because you are lying to yourself. Sometimes they are unconscious painful trauma's you've yet to see in your behavior. Maybe its something to work on or you see opportunity inside yourself. Othertimes its boundary issues and you've got to address them in yourself. Other times its because you are hiding part of your personality away and need to bring it out to address the post. Other times its something you need to do more often, or see done more often. Even when you are going in to help someone else.

Its incredibly difficult when this comes to painful events but that attracts your focus more. Perhaps you are fed up with being walked all over, or perhaps you are walking all over others and it bites you. Perhaps your bias or the immediate impact of the situation is stopping you thinking clearly. As an example. Perhaps someone steals something from you and you realise you've got issues in your past related to ownership, or you are hiding from people who take from you and need to stand up to them. It gets very difficult to make this case in regards to traumatic events, because the reaction becomes much more painful, so i'm only going to go that far with examples.

How you relate X to Y externally and internally, how you see that in others is what benefits from interactions like this.
* Infinity relating to infinity, creates infinite examples.

Edited March 2, 2022 by BlueOak

[Johnny Galt]

@John Paul Good post. Rather than the ideas presented on the screen, too many focus on the person and personality. That which we see on the screen, the letters the words and the ideas presented, that is what we know and are directly encountering and so it would be best to stay present to reality. 

[John Paul]

6 hours ago, flowboy said:

The trap is that the ego likes to imagine itself in the position of the teacher with extra respect credits already built up. So that it can say anything and people will consider it deeply.

i don't see how credit should promote disrespect, just as i don't think a father should disrespect his son. a challenge-go think about _______ from a teacher and then silence until homework has been completed makes sense. a stick.....i don't get it 

[Carl-Richard]

Namecalling and disrespectful attitude is against the guidelines.

https://www.actualized.org/forum/guidelines/

[John Paul]

@Carl-Richard ya i'm talking about disrespectful attitude i guess. if it's not a problem idk I'm not on here consistently too long just seen some of it but its not that bad

[Loba]

@John Paul The mods take care of it, if you see it just hit the report button.  There is some disrespect here, but it is getting better with time as people over the years get to know each other.  We have period here where the current atmosphere is good and everyone gets along and then moments where it seems like a lot of fighting, only for the forum to chill out again and things to go back to norm.  Which is generally less disrespectful than a lot of other forums out there where it isn't moderated.

But yeah it isn't the best attitude to have so if you see it, either let the person know that's what's up or just report and the mods will either talk to the person, give them a warning or both.