Is F+ request morally wrong?

[Jannes]

So I just dated a girl on tinder. Our date was just a walk through our town. I didn’t vibe with her and don’t want her as my girlfriend. My tinder profile doesn’t state what I am looking for. My question is is it morally okay if I ask her if she wants a F+ buddy? Rational robotically speaking there isn’t anything wrong with asking that imo because how else could I find out if she is interested in that if I don’t ask? But I think in this request it seems that there is something implied that is really hurtful for women. Maybe they think that from the start I just saw her as a sex object or smth. idk I am not very experienced when it comes to relationships. So is it possible to ask for F+ in a way that doesn’t hurt more for the women then just saying I don’t want to date anymore? 
I am 22yo and my date 19yo. Maybe that matters. And my date only has a “;)“ in her tinder description.

[puporing]

LoL can't really help you as if I didn't vibe with somebody I wouldn't want to sleep with them either or find that appealing. There's nothing 'morally wrong' if the person doesn't think there is. But there has to be an attraction at least I feel.

[Preety_India]

Hmm. One guy asked me out for sex very outrightly. I was offended and blocked him immediately. 

Guess depends on who you are texting. 

I felt objectified and broke down in tears later. 

(nothing worse than feeling objectified as a body or piece of meat for sexual gratification) 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Preety_India

[puporing]

Yeah it has the feeling of being treated like a free prostitute I think. Which is worse than a prostitute coz at least they get paid lol. 

But I've heard that's a lot of women's experience on apps like Tinder these days.

But nothing 'wrong' if it was something mutual I guess and it was made clear and you're not pretending it's going somewhere else romantically.

Edited March 2, 2022 by puporing

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, puporing said:

Yeah it has the feeling of being treated like a free prostitute I think. Which is worse than a prostitute coz at least they get paid lol.

But I've heard that's a lot of women's experience on apps like Tinder these days.

I think I would really prefer an emotional connection before someone brings up sex. 

There's no point in being with a person who is not  genuinely interested in me but simply attracted to me for sex. 

Without my emotional needs met, I would feel very deprived and hollow. 

I don't like casual sex for the same reason. 

I can only have sex in the context of a relationship, otherwise I feel empty. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Preety_India

[something_else]

35 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I felt objectified and broke down in tears later. 

(nothing worse than feeling objectified as a body or piece of meat for sexual gratification) 

I actually can’t understand this. It’s totally not a criticism, it just feels so totally alien to how I (and I suspect many men) experience sexuality that I struggle to even empathise with it like I wish I could

[puporing]

@something_else imo it doesn't necessarily matter if it's a man or woman, what matters is if the person got some feelings involved and the other party simply didn't in the first place but proceeds anyway as if they also had some mutual feelings. So it's more like being deceived if anything. 

But I can't speak for @Preety_India as people have unique preferences.

Edited March 2, 2022 by puporing

[something_else]

2 minutes ago, puporing said:

imo it doesn't necessarily matter if it's a man or woman, what matters is if the person got some feelings involved and the other party simply didn't in the first place but proceeds anyway as if they also had some mutual feelings. So it's more like being deceived if anything

Oh yea totally agree. That’s pure scumbaggery. If you know the other person wants more and you don’t but you keep seeing them that’s pure manipulation

Being direct about just wanting sex isn’t bad as long as you’re not a total asshat about it either. But it’s kind of a bad strategy for guys and a very risky strategy for girls. It’s more fun for everyone if you’re a bit more playful and flirty about it

[Preety_India]

28 minutes ago, puporing said:

@something_else imo it doesn't necessarily matter if it's a man or woman, what matters is if the person got some feelings involved and the other party simply didn't in the first place but proceeds anyway as if they also had some mutual feelings. So it's more like being deceived if anything. 

But I can't speak for @Preety_India as people have unique preferences.

I'm talking about even before feelings are involved not after, just to clarify. 

In that case it's not manipulation if the guy directly tells me in the very first conversation that he wants sex. He is simply expressing what he wants. 

But it still feels like he doesn't see me as a human being but more as an object that is to be used for his needs. It hurts self esteem because it feels like I'm good for nothing other than sex. 

Also the feeling that I am an instrument to be used for sex and forgotten later. As though I'm not a woman, as though I have no emotions. 

It feels antithetical to my womanhood because a woman feels emotional. 

I can't speak for other women though. 

But I feel like utter garbage if a man approached me and asked me for sex. (being treated like a prostitute) 

It's one thing to be approached for romance, relationship and marriage (there's respect in this) and it's another thing to be approached just for sex (you think I'm a whore is the question that immediately pops in mind) 

If a guy said that he wants me as a gf lover or partner for life, there is a certain respect for that. 

Imagine if I approached a man who is wealthy and said "hey I want to hang out with you just for your money or else I won't even look at you," would that man feel good about himself if every woman did this to him 

It's a matter of respect and disrespect not about manipulation 

That's why I cried because I felt disrespected

I hope you understood now @something_else

I won't feel disrespected if a guy asked me to be his gf. In that case I would feel adored. 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Preety_India

[integral]

To become friends with benefits continue slowly escalating until things turn into sex and naturally there will come a understanding of what kind of relationship it is. 

At some point shes gonna ask you what kind of relationship are we in and youll respond with asking her what kind of relationship she wants and then when she explains it you explain your situation and that's that.

Do not explain that you don't like her personality or blah blah blah you're not compatible.  Only talk how you're  looking for friends with benefits right now and you're not interested in settling down that's the story (After a lot dating/sex).

The story is about you it's not about her, it's not personal, never make anything personal.

Edited March 2, 2022 by integral

[John Paul]

as long as there is nothing in your energy/behavior that is unfair/manipulative which i mean as: you are not using her to vent some lovey dove feelings sometimes... aww your so sweet with that genuine energy... because at your ages the amount of experience you have it isn't really realistic that she will be able to overlook these as accidents-she will think you are starting to fall in love with her and realistically she isn't going to be able to stop falling in love with you. her falling in love just from sex is not your fault if you can not vent that lovey dovey energy to her but realistically from my exp you don't want a chick to fall in love with you bro.. because in the end you will have to reject her and it will hurt you too. but you need pussy ay i know you (me), so go ahead and learn the hard way. but try your best to keep it honest consistently and talk truthfully often

[puporing]

@John Paul plot twist OP falls in love with the FWB girl. 

[Cleopatra]

Personally, I can't for the life of me fathom how people sleep with people they don't really know or have any kind of intimate relationship with. As a lady, I usually wonder what the benefit is for me. If it's just a matter of sexual satisfaction, there's a plethora of sex toys to choose from for that, guaranteed orgasm too. Sure they don't offer the intimacy of another person but neither does sex with a man who just wants you for sex. Also there's the delusions to fall into that the situation will develop into a real relationship, which us usually not the case. I've so far not encountered a couple who started that way, so what's the benefit in the 'friends with benefits'? You're likely not even real friends because that's not how real friendships form. Tons of confusion. 

But obviously there's many people who do it, and happily too, maybe she is one of those people. As for the morality of it, a question is simply a question, either she wants to or not its a simple yes or no. If she says yes, be clear that she understands that it is not leading to a relationship, it's just for sex so you are both on the same page. Of course you don't have to do,  some people (Male and female) will not make this clear and leave the other person thinking there's potential for a relationship but since you are concerned about the morality here, I'd say it's better to communicate that. 

[NoSelfSelf]

You should have asked that from the start now its little weird and probably wont work i dont know... i dont get comments here why you are getting upset with upfront approach its way better you dont get manipulated and see if you are on same page i dont get it ,some people just want to enjoy sex for the sake of having sex  its way more emotionally abusive to act as someone that wants to be in a relationship and then proceed to do it just for sex which most of the guys do its weird?...

[Michal__]

Try to get her in bed without talking explicitly about sex.

Then ask her if she's ok with not being in a relationship.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Michal__

[NoSelfSelf]

@Michal__ thats potential emotional trauma right there if you say that after sex ? 

[Preety_India]

8 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

You should have asked that from the start now its little weird and probably wont work i dont know... i dont get comments here why you are getting upset with upfront approach its way better you dont get manipulated and see if you are on same page i dont get it ,some people just want to enjoy sex for the sake of having sex  its way more emotionally abusive to act as someone that wants to be in a relationship and then proceed to do it just for sex which most of the guys do its weird?...

For that you need to understand sexual objectification. As a man, you were never put on display as a sexual object. You never had to think that you are some prostitute. For women it's a big deal how they're viewed sexually and they don't want to feel sexually objectified. 

[NoSelfSelf]

@Preety_India Man are used sexually all the time some girls will use a guy for a kiss or sex and thats what i heared from girls..i dont get how a guy is sexually objectifing a women if hes just wanting sex and not relationship while you want a relationship and because of that you feel sexually objectified its seems to me from understanding im having(which is not big atm)...i mean if a girl is down for sex only how would i know if i dont ask her?

[Hugo Oliveira]

Between a committed relationship and objectified sex, there is a huge and nuanced gap. It is not about choosing one or another. 

You have to find where both of you fit. I recommend clear and respectful communication about it when convenient. 

Don't be too attached about what to say or rationalize or define. Just be with her and be honest. This is how colorful friendships work. You become partners in life, in a healthy way. She will not be your girlfriend and neither a toy. This is a unique interaction that you guys are building together and should be good for both. 

If you resonate only with the sex aspect and don't tolerate her as a person. I strongly recommend you to drop it and move forward by yourself or someone else. 

[Arthogaan]

There is nothing immoral in such question if asked in a respectfull way.

Should I feel objectified if someone wants to talk to me for just being heard without asking about my thoughts and my situation?

"Am I some kind of chatbot or a psychologist. A least psychologist is being paid."

Or should I feel objectified when a hungry person asks me for food/cash? " Am I some kind of vending machine or ATM?" 

Of course not. Any kind of relationship is an agreement of some sorts and you can openly ask about the points od agreement wheter it be food, emotional support, hugging or sex.

We are just as much our body as our minds (not at all from spiritual point of view) So if someone ask me for my body and not mind and I get angry I could theoretically also get angry if someone only wants my mind and not body ( for example only talk to me)

But you can have in back of your mind that there is a objectification trauma for women in the social matrix and it would be beneficial to be as loving and respectfull as possible.